.

[Dee4Three]

Both of you are missing the point entirely.

The contest is that shady happenings like creating a fake account to attack someone/support oneself, having people PM for mods, loading up on the adfly links, and bribing for downloads is occuring, and that rubs people the wrong way. You make it seem like the complaining is based just off of his work (like stolen work), when in reality it's bigger than that.

You saying that these guys are not artists is actually not true, they are. Whether it be fixing up or creating new Jerseys, courts, cyberfaces, logos, complete conversions, it's being a artist, and it's someone's work. If R4zor takes 15 hours on a cyberface, and someone releases his work with a small edit, or uses his base and just says (credit to), it can rub the ARTIST of the original work the wrong way. And, if that person pulls that numerous times on numerous projects, it makes people question that person's character and intentions.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt after finding out that Andrew already dealt with him on the creating a fake account matter, as people do make mistakes. But the way a modders carries himself around other modders, the way he presents himself, the way he releases his work/others edited work, all of that is a big deal. Saying they are not artists, or minimizing the importance of the work done here because it's being done on a video game, is not only silly, but I find it slightly insulting. A person could work 15 hours on a painting that hardly anybody likes, but it's hung up in a museum or given a hefty price tag, you would call that art and some of modders work not? Let's not minimize what is done here. PeacemanNOT, R4zor, Void, Maravich, Big Shot, all of those guys are artists who take pride in there work, as they should.

Shuajota would be lying if he said he didn't deserve some of this, especially with creating a fake account to support himself and attack someone else. He can, in time, repair that image. But what he did isn't small potatoes, his character should be questioned until he redeems himself over a period of time.

But, this thread had been derailed a bit much. So let's carry on.

[bluejaybrandon]

I feel like responding because I've been contacted by several of the big name creators on this forum who don't want to publicly stir things but have expressed solidarity with my points. So I'll respond to what has been said as it's only fair if it is brought up in the thread.

I didn´t release the first version because I thought I can do it better.

I'll start with this. This is a blatant lie and whether or not anyone cares that's fine but its true. You didn't release your first Lamelo because you didn't get the requested 5,000 likes on the original video. We both know that happened. First, that is abhorrent behavior if you want to stress community. That's withholding content for purely selfish reasons. Second, you're really overestimating the interest in modding.

I can't speak to any 'shady' behavior on your end but I can attest to all the work that you've put in. You've worked tirelessly on many projects. Some may end up incomplete but who the fuck cares - it's more than most do. Your intent is clear - to contribute significantly to this community. I can't imagine that you've accrued any bounty of money from releases. I can understand the frustration, but to present it as if you're some thief without morals, that's worthy of prison time is silly. Of course, that's hyperbole but your offenses are far less reprehensible than some express. IMHO.

I'll gladly speak to the shady behavior for you. Look through the DNA roster files. There are files in there that he did not create. They are made by other users who put in countless hours of work and monetized them on their own. He's not only taking their potential revenue but then slapping his own ad-links over the files. On top of that, if you check out his website (which I refuse to link), you'll notice he put ad-links on every direct download to other creators content.

He's not about community, he's about making a buck. You may laugh off how bad that really is but just know its practices like these that are pushing some of the best modders here out. I've personally talked to four of the biggest names creating content for 2k18, many of which I'm sure you've complimented or downloaded from, and they are both annoyed and defeated with the lack of policing that goes on with this user. Their releases have all but dried up because this user has both taken over the sub and stolen some of their best work. Plenty of people put in work, but less are feeling the desire to because of how this forum has evolved.

Obviously those that just want content are gonna say "ignore the haters". You all say that, because you all want more content. For all you care, this could be a straight webpage of links to downloads. There is no interest in community, those users just want content. Some of us are more interested in community, but that is becoming increasingly difficult. That's why the community is drying up on 2k18 and being replaced with requests and demands for release.

...if you put material on the internet it is going to be used by the users, some intentions might be shady but you should consider before you put in on, perhaps we should start charging for mods to give them better value?...does it really matter how it's used? Is it bad if it could be improved? Ya'll not artists, painters or some shit like that, these ain't no records that attracting big time labels, its a darn video game so treat it like one!

So a couple things here.

First, yes it entirely matters how someone wants it to be used. I learned the hard way that simply building off what others have created is not the way to go. Some people don't want their work used as a base and that is their choice. If they say that then the respectful thing to do is let it stand and do your own thing. As a user, you can choose to download it or not but just because its uploaded doesn't give you free reign to vary it and claim its yours. Like it or not, the creators have a certain sense of pride/ego in their work. You would understand this if you put in the time to create, especially to the extent the top modders create. They turn nothing into something so or that to be just copied undermines their original effort to a certain extent.

Second, I'm not sure where charging for mods came from but nobody has ever advocated that. "Ya'll not artists" has to be the most shortsighted thing I've read on this thread. Take any of the creations of the best cyberface modders on here and show me where that level of quality is in-game. It's not there...because they literally created it. They're actually exactly artists, and just like artists have a certain level of pride in their work. They're taking hours out of their lives to improve a product, which should be commended not ridiculed. Comments like this are the epitome of why so many modders are giving up or moving on.

Edit: I was fractionally more late than Dee but I echo everything he says. Upstanding member or the community right there.

[Shuajota]

???
I have spent a lot hours here, and my work is unquestionable. Mods like FIBA and ACB are really a beautiful work of art. My mods will be better or worse, but I've made a lot of new stuff during no hours, months!. And I don’t ot have to prove anything. The same user always comment trying to criticize, (That’s why I did that but I learnt the rules) I accept the constructive comments but some times there are comments than is better to obviate them. I hope it doesn’t receive more comments out of the topic.
Bluejaybrandon you are wrong with the adlinks, For those rars I used adlinks from a shared account with other users!!!! But you don’t know that but you continue in the same wrong way. I have good news for you. I say goodbye to this community, thanks for some users, but I’m tired of you.
PD: By an artist from a roman reign.

[bluejaybrandon]

???
I have spent a lot hours here, and my work is unquestionable. Mods like FIBA and ACB are really a beautiful work of art. My mods will be better or worse, but I've made a lot of new stuff during no hours, months!. And I don’t ot have to prove anything. The same user always comment trying to criticize, (That’s why I did that but I learnt the rules) I accept the constructive comments but some times there are comments than is better to obviate them. I hope it doesn’t receive more comments out of the topic.
PD: By an artist from a roman reign.

You're attacking the straw man here. Nobody is saying you're not a creator of content that has taken time. Nobody is saying you don't accept criticism. The statement was you have shady practices and until you show signs of change or even basic acceptance of these shady practices, I'm going to keep bringing it up when necessary because it is relevant.

[cardo]

Yo! I make a living as a graphic designer, so I would never say that modders aren't artist. NEVER. Very much the opposite.

I can't defend some of the things I've seen, so I won't. That said - rarely are any cybers started from scratch. Most modders use an already present CF as a base and add on to it. Doesn't seem to be much of a variance between that and someone using another modders CF as a base and adding on to it. I remember R4zor using RJ Hunter as a base for M Porter last year. Does that mean R4zors a thief for using a base that 2K previously created? No. I personally would ask permission to use a modders previously released work, but that's just me.

As I said - I won't defend everything I've seen, but I will say that Shuajota is a heavy contributor to the 2K modding culture. He clearly needs to refine his approach with a few things but I personally respect and appreciate the sheer volume of hours he must put into all of this work. Thank's, homie! In the immortal words of Pac, "you are appreciated".

[bluejaybrandon]

...rarely are any cybers started from scratch. Most modders use an already present CF as a base and add on to it. Doesn't seem to be much of a variance between that and someone using another modders CF as a base and adding on to it. I remember R4zor using RJ Hunter as a base for M Porter last year. Does that mean R4zors a thief for using a base that 2K previously created? No.

The thing I'll say is that 2k is paid to create faces. A guy is on salary to make sure that RJ Hunter looks like RJ Hunter. He goes to work, does his job, and feeds his family with the money paid to create that content. The modders don't have that luxury. They do it (hopefully) for the love of modding. When someone comes along and slaps ads on/ profits off of something that they just put hours of effort into for free, that is a direct slight on their creative process .

Look at it this way, you wouldn't go to your local craft fair, pick up a painting done by an artist and alter it in front of their face, then claim its yours and charge any amount of money. It is their creation and until they tell you "hey go ahead and do your thing with it", it shouldn't be yours to alter. Just my thoughts on this direct matter.

[cardo]

'Obviously those that just want content are gonna say "ignore the haters". You all say that, because you all want more content. For all you care, this could be a straight webpage of links to downloads. There is no interest in community, those users just want content. Some of us are more interested in community, but that is becoming increasingly difficult. That's why the community is drying up on 2k18 and being replaced with requests and demands for release"

Dude! I don't know you nor do you know me, so don't speak for my intent. I hardly play 2K but am still in tune with what people are doing here. I check this board out of habit - not because I'm sitting on the edge of my seat awaiting releases. I'm just a guy who compliments peoples work when I have time because I know what goes into it. I'm also capable of creating a lot of this content myself - if time allowed. So, I'm not one of the needy users here begging for content. Trust me I lose no sleep over whether or not the 2468th LeBron James cyber is created and released. It's far from that serious, my G!

[bluejaybrandon]

Dude! I don't know you nor do you know me, so don't speak for my intent. I hardly play 2K but am still in tune with what people are doing here. I check this board out of habit - not because I'm sitting on the edge of my seat awaiting releases. I'm just a guy who compliments peoples work when I have time because I know what goes into it. I'm also capable of creating a lot of this content myself - if time allowed. So, I'm not one of the needy users here begging for content. Trust me I lose no sleep over whether or not the 2468th LeBron James cyber is created and released. It's far from that serious, my G!

That's fair, I probably should have clarified that I meant that more generally. Not you specifically because I don't know your motives. I meant the more general "you" out there that you see more and more on the 2k18 threads. The same ones that constantly ask for releases or request more content, those are the one's that don't care about community and will defend this user because he is their constant stream of content. When he disappeared for a bit they turned ravenous fast and made more demands. These same people will act as hype men if it means more content for them.

P.S. - your LeBron comment was brilliant and hilarious

[cardo]

All good, man. Your draft class looks like a beast (no intent, other than to express respect for the volume and detail of the work).

I've been here perusing these boards for almost a decade. I just remember a time when the modders worked together in attempts to make the game really special. I miss those days.