Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

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Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:55 am

We are a month into NBA 2K18, but I have a few things I want to get off my chest.

In the last 3 weeks, I have been sent semi-nasty PM's because I have not worked on my NBA 2K18 rosters. People who used to message me all the time with positivity, people who would do the same on the public comments, turning against me. I have had people arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me, basically going at me for anything I say. I want to make something perfectly clear...

NBA 2K and basketball video games in general are a huge part of my life. I started on this forum because of the UBR, and eventually became a part of the team (Releasing the arena music, some cyberfaces/tweaks, etc). I fell in love with the community here that was so passionate about the NBA. I loved the team atmosphere approach to modding, I loved the willingness to make mods for people who request them with no expectation of donations or any form of compensation (I see you Rich). It was all out of the goodness of heart from the modder.

In NBA 2K16, I made courts and a fantasy draft roster that included a slew of hidden players, and primed current players. That one roster took me a long time, but I loved releasing it. I also released classic courts, and a bunch of modding tutorials (Videos). For NBA 2K17, I released 3 huge rosters that took hundreds of hours of my time. I don't have adfly links, I don't ask for donations, I don't expect anything. I did it for you guys, I wanted you guys to enjoy an experience that you couldn't get on consoles, and an experience that we never were able to enjoy thoroughly on this gen. It took making portraits, accurate signatures, ratings, tendencies, Vitals, simulated stats, some faces, converting and tweaking courts, swapping stadiums, making accessories accurate (Not color, just what they wore), and it was that way from all the default classic teams, and newly added ones in the UCTR, for all the players in the UATR and for all the players in the UFDR. All of it was done manually, every single player and team. I put everything I had into that.

For the community that assisted, PeacemanNOT (especially the month prior to release) was a giant help with cheat engine, as well as his great jerseys, making the right coaches, and a few faces. I praised him up and down for his help on my video and via PM, and publically. Manni Live made a couple courts for me, and again I praised him for his help, he is amazing for this community. Others are named in the credits, and you guys were amazing for helping me out.

One thing I never saw with the UBR or URB threads, were people throwing it in the head of the projects face. I have had that happen recently, and it's very, very disappointing. WE ARE A TEAM, all of us on NLSC. It's what I love about the NLSC.

Where I slipped up, was creating threads for 2K18 before it came out (for my rosters), which may have also led to unrealistic expectations. So I do want to apologize about that, and... I have not requested them to be locked, or denounced my rosters yet for the simple reason that the gameplay flaws COULD be patched, and it would be silly to have them shut down, just to open another thread if I decide to move forward.

I have a thread that is closing in on 300 comments of why I havn't moved forward yet, why I disagree entirely about the direction of the game, about how the game is pointless to play for me at this moment. I have had people telling me my game is broken, that I fudged my sliders to make my videos more relevant to my stance, that I was refusing to try new sliders to also make my stance stronger, people stating that I was just bad at the game, etc etc. Meanwhile, I continue to post videos of the problem with different slider sets and the same result, and those people who accused me just disappear. No apology for trying to call me out as a liar, nothing, Just, F me right?

The funny part of all of this is: My youtube channel was getting 20-30 subscribers a day before 2K18's release. Since? I have had 8 subscribers in about 3 weeks, and numerous other subscribers dropping. Now why you may ask? Because they want to see 2K18 gameplay, and are also openly frustrated with me for not posting it. Now why would I destroy my youtube channel just to keep my stance or lie about it? I loved the progress of my channel, I loved that people were interested in the retro videos, I miss the views and the comments of engaged people. But as I stated, I won't fake dribble moves for show, I won't fake strategy for views, I won't make videos of a game that I consider broken from a gameplay standpoint. I have also had to go back and forth with people on here about these issues for weeks, which do you think I would rather do: Make mods and have people be positive and engaged, and not have that drama? or debate with people for weeks on here? I clearly want to NOT have this drama, but I am not going to lie about how I feel about the game.

I love this community, as stated prior: It's my home away from home. The talent we have in this community is enormous, the PeacemanNOT's, Maumau, Manni Live, The Goods, ET Void, Bongo, Carolus, Razor, Rich, Big Shot ROB, Skoadam, Slimm, Maravich, etc etc etc. I could go on and on. For this gen (And 2K18 in general) the modding section is full of amazing talent, amazing mods. It's unbelievable the stuff that gets put out.

I continue to work on 2K17 while I wait for 2K18 to be playable, I have been adding new teams (I've added 3), and all cheat engine related stuff, jerseys, etc I have been doing myself (Thanks for the tips and table Carolus). I will be adding more teams probably and releasing updates for my rosters. If you guys are interested, absolutely check it out over in the NBA 2K17 section.

I have not given up on 2K18, I am just not working on it right this second because I believe the gameplay is broken. I appreciate everybody on here who supported me and my projects over the last couple years, it's been awesome. Just be patient... please.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby PeacemanNOT on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:09 am

I completely understand why you're not working on 2K18, my biggest problem is I won't be able to help much in 2018 due to school (at least not as much as last year where most of the work was done for the UCTR etc.)

We needed to get most of our work done as early as possible, but with you out not much is going to happen now.
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:14 am

I understand that, and as stated prior... you made so many amazing contributions for 2K17. You and I were a hell of a team in that last month before release. I was looking in my inbox, and we literally had like 100 messages back and forth. We had strategy, encouragement, constructive criticism, everything you could want in a collaboration. Which is why we had such a great final product even with many limitations that we had to deal with.

I stated to you in a PM that I was sad about letting people down, you are one of the people I am sad for. If you guys don't think I think about that, you are crazy. I would love nothing more than to have people get all pumped up about my rosters for 2K18, people wanting to create work for it, seeing the results, etc. I would love that.

The door is not closed on it, I continue to tweak the game and hope for a fix. But I can't seem to find anything that works. And, I hope that if the project does come around, that you will have some time to contribute to it.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:10 am

I have a lot of respect for what you've done and still do for that community, for the quality of your work.
Your expectations were high for 2K18, much higher than mine, so is your deception disappointment

You know lot of people lot the next big thing. And now it's 2K18.
I think I prefer 2K18 for other reasons, even if it's not perfect. I try to go back to 2K17, it has qualities too, but if you put the drive glitch aside (i know Dee, you cant), in my opinion, 2K18 is a better basketball game.
For telling the truth, i also play a lot 2K15 few weeks before 2K18 release, and it had my preference before 2K17 and 2K16.

So I don't think unfortunately that 2K will patch 2K18 in the way you want, so i guess, it's more realistic for you to stay on 2K17, continue the great work on your roster.
Perhaps you'll inspire someone like you, who'll make his own mods because of you.
I also guess that it's more complicated for you modders to stay on a specific version, because 2K close the servers after 2 years. Perhaps on this point, NLSC could alter their rule about rosters :?: (Andrew ? :oops: )
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:17 am

Thanks, and I loved your support on 2K17. It's people like you that drove me to continue and make it even better.

Deception definition is "The action of deceiving someone". or synonyms: deceit, deceitfulness, duplicity, double-dealing, fraud, cheating, trickery, chicanery, deviousness, slyness, wiliness, guile, bluff, lying, pretense, treachery; informalcrookedness, monkey business, monkeyshines
"they obtained money by deception"

Not sure if that is the word you were looking for.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:24 am

sorry, it was in french... disappointment was the good word :facepalm2:
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:26 am

sticky-fingers wrote:sorry, it was in french... disappointment was good the word


Ahh okay. Yeah that word fits.

I've never been more disappointed in a title.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby briggm on Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:52 am

Thanks for your great retro rosters last year - 17 was the first time I'd bought the game on PC and for me personally it was nice to find somebody making rosters for that period every bit as good as anything available previously on the PS4.

I share many of your frustrations with the driving game in 2K18 and hopefully they'll tweak it to the point where it's much more difficult to get by defenders, although I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

Finally, if you get a chance check out 35-35-quick for Dale Ellis' release (in either 2K17 or 18) there's a few retro player's shots I've really tried to get down as close as possible to the real thing and I think that one is really close!
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:04 am

briggm wrote:Thanks for your great retro rosters last year - 17 was the first time I'd bought the game on PC and for me personally it was nice to find somebody making rosters for that period every bit as good as anything available previously on the PS4.

I share many of your frustrations with the driving game in 2K18 and hopefully they'll tweak it to the point where it's much more difficult to get by defenders, although I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

Finally, if you get a chance check out 35-35-quick for Dale Ellis' release (in either 2K17 or 18) there's a few retro player's shots I've really tried to get down as close as possible to the real thing and I think that one is really close!


Thanks for the props and support!

Ill give that Dale Ellis shot a try.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 am

Completely understandable. If a game is highly moddable then sometimes it's fun to tinker with even if you're not a fan of the gameplay, but if it's cumbersome to mod and you're not keen on the game on top of that, the incentive just isn't there. I've certainly been there in the past.

I'm disappointed to hear that you're getting some unpleasant messages from people though, and can certainly relate having received more than a couple of them over the years when people weren't happy that NLSC roster updates weren't available right when they wanted them, or that real life issues forced me to postpone a release on occasion. To the people doing that, I can only say, knock it off. That's not the way we want to do things in this community, and we will take action against it. For your part Dee, feel free to report any messages that cross the line, because abuse via the PM system is definitely against our rules.
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:36 am

Thanks.

Nobody has crossed the line per say, they have let it be known though that they are frustrated with me.

Either way, I felt this message was relevant not just for me, but for others (like you mentioned, yourself in the past) who get dissapointed because of that type of treatment.

I'm going to take a nap, because it was a long day (sorry, no modding from me tonight). Ha.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:59 am

Fair enough. If someone does cross the line though, please let us know!

Incidentally, that obviously goes for anyone in regards to any private messages that are abusive or break the rules. We can't see that happening like we can with public posts, so hit that report button if there are issues. Indeed, we can overlook public posts too, so if something requires our attention, report it and one of us will take a look as soon as possible.
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby hova- on Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:01 pm

I hope I was not amongst the ones who offended you. I think you should just do whatever you want to.

I was loving 2k17 when I finally managed to edit ALL the tendencies of every player. But the game crashed once while editing (I had like three teams left to edit) and the roster was gone - no backups. That's when I stopped playing.

2k18 overall is better in my opinion, because it has some very nice improvements nobody is actually talking about (smooth post game, lovely shot blocking, players actually play like you tell them in the system), but the driving problem exists and I understand that you cannot live with it (for me slider tweaks have helped, when I barrell inside I usually get stripped or a charge, but it could be more realistic).

So why not just keep editting 2k17 and have fun with it. You don't owe anything to the community - more the other way around.

Keep ballin bro (Y)
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:11 am

You were fine Hova, and I agree about 2K17 tendencies and attributes. I had to adjust so many of them. It's why I laughed at the article that talked about the science behind the way they do ratings and tendencies, I could point out SO MANY ridiculous tendencies and attributes that make absolutely no sense (For current and classic teams). Like, making Rodman a 65 on mid range and Shawn Kemp a 60, things like that. I could go on and on.

I believe it's even worse in 2K18, because all of it is thrown out the window and all the players feel basically the same and blend together. For example, I was playing last night, and drove from the perimeter for an entire quarter with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and scored 30 points.... I'll say again, I iso'd from the perimeter with Kareem and just went in a straight line towards the hoop and scored 30 points, with no help stopping me. I think I shot like 75% doing it. Now, with 2K17 we could fix things by adjusting sliders and tendencies, and attributes. With 2K18, It doesn't matter what you do, you can drive whenever you want, with whoever you want, on whoever you want, and the defense doesn't adjust, and you can score at will. Which throws those defensive ratings, tendencies, sliders out the door. Me playing the game, knowing that any strategy I am doing (dribble moves, plays, etc) is far less successful than just driving to the hoop from the perimeter with my Center, completely destroys the experience. Do you see why any improvements are null and void to me? By the way, on those drives, I didn't get stripped once, or get a charge. Oh, and I was playing against the All-Time Celtics, being guarded by Bill Russell.

I will continue to try the game after patches, and try suggested slider sets (Hard to want to try new ones when I was able to do the same thing with all defensive sliders for the CPU jacked to 100). But I am not giving up. Just 2K17 is a far better experience for me at this point.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby timmyd on Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:42 am

Hey Dee,

Oh man, I am sorry to hear about all the idiot's sending you negative comments and such. You know me, I am you're biggest fan. You ARE THE REASON WHY I JOINED NLSC LAST YEAR, like literally, you can see it in my history.

This is a bitter yet sweet moment for me, man. I really, really, really purchased NBA 2k18 with the intention that one day I'll be able to play again with a retro-season (2007-2008), which is one of my most memorable years ever and memorable outside of basketball too.

I understand what you are saying and even though I don't entirely agree with you stepping away from NBA2K18, I do respect your decision and still wish you all the best on your projects.

Last year, when you had become extremely frustrated with 2K17, I tried to write the most encouraging post on one of your threads, I like to say...that it worked? haha just kidding. I won't try that today, because today, even I see similar faults in 2K18's gameplay.

But, I still hope and pray that you will change your mind...and again save me. You see, for people like me. All we got is.... Work, Family, Sleep. I got no other hobby or interests... sure, maybe the gym for 1 hour a day.. big deal. This is my time pass, this is my entertainment... this is basically my escape. My wife always tells me when I'm super stressed because of work... just play some NBA2k and relax...it works...and honestly...your rosters kept me happy. I wish you can release something again. You are great at what you do, eff these damn gameplay issues....NBA 2k might not ever be playable.

Anyways brother,

All the best to you!
Willing to help complete rosters for season/my league use.

#GoSpursGo
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:39 am

Thanks as always for the support TimmyD, glad I helped you get involved in the NLSC.

I continue to try things with the game in order to find a fix. No luck yet.

I will keep you posted.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Kevmire on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:07 pm

Hey,

I'm not much of a poster, don't have the talent like all the modders here, but have been a member/creeper of this forum since well before 2006. Not many websites can make it this long without the word you used in the title of your post "community".

Anyway, despite my lack of posting, I just wanted to offer you my support. And thank you and all other modders for your work and passion. Us "creepers" don't say it enough.

There is enough negativity in the world (trust me I live it every day with my real world job). People from ALL over the world join here for their love of basketball, to enjoy the beautiful mods you all create, and to escape from real life. I guarandamntee (The rock voice), there are thousands of people like me, who don't have Youtube accounts, who don't post often, or don't even have an NLSC account who enjoy your work (and others), who are shaking their heads at all the negative comments you received. Know that!!!

For the record, I also prefer 2K17 at this point. lol.

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:22 pm

That was very well said... thank you!

You make a great point, and I think I forget sometimes about the people who don't post. The people that show up as a number under "downloads", or are one of the many visitors listed at the bottom of the page.

I really appreciate this message, as I am sure the other modders do.

Thank you again.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby CarolusXCI on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:27 pm

Thanks for the shout-out.

Sticking to an older title instead of playing the latest one is completely understandable. I have no idea how many thousand hours I played NBA live 2005 during the last decade. I had to buy me a new copy of NBA live 2000 some years ago because the first one I had simply broke (inside my cd-rom drive btw) after years of playing. To be honest I don't like this "a release per year" thing that is so common on the sports gaming industry, but I understand why it is are like that.
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Re: Me - Modding and The Community - Please Read

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:10 am

Loved NBA Live 2000, it's my favorite Live in the series.

And I kinda of a agree about the "Release per year" thing, I bypassed putting in a lot of time for 2K15 and continued with 2K14 for the PC, I don't regret that at all. The part of it that is kinda of disheartening, is the hit it takes to my YouTube Channel, and the disappointment it causes here for the people who looked forward to me releasing rosters for the new game.

We have to live with our choices, so I will suck it up and look at the positives. To say I am not extremely disappointed in 2K18, would be a lie. I don't consider it a good basketball game.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

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