Are you not entertained?!!!

[JWL3]

Day 2 of the grind and the end is nowhere in sight. All I have been doing is slogging through the team and Gatorade gym, doing utterly pointless exercises to incrementally improve my player. The road looks 2x longer than last year, when I finally got a single creation to 96 and 5 HOF badges by March.

Why do we put up with this nonsense??? Every year, I both anticipate and fear the release of a new 2K because of this crazy grind. There is no way to enjoy different positions and archetypes unless you drop $500 actual currency on VC.

I spent 8 hrs on the game today to get my 60 rated dude to 65. Had fun maybe 10 minutes of that 8 hrs. Enough is enough.

[TBM]

Then don't play it? You literally never leave a positive comment about 2K, yet you play it every year. If you hate it, which is reasonable, then stop playing it.

[KyotoCarl]

I don't get it either. Why complain and keep playing? Why vent it here?

I think the whole VC thing is atrocious, especially this year, BUT; I don't see why you complain that "the road is 2x harder this year". Isn't the point of playing that you have a journey ahead of you? Game's been out a week and it almost feels like you expect to have an 80 plus character already. What would be the fun in that? When you play RPG's, like Skyrim or similar, your character sucks in the beginning. It takes work and dedication to get a good character. Shouldn't basketball be the same?
Some players take 4-5 seasons in the NBA until they become great players. Shouldn't it take the same for our 2K characters. Especially considering we play as washed up DJ's who got lucky to make it to the league in the first place.

[Andrew]

If we've dropped our money on a game, we tend to give it a few chances and try to make the most of it. Sometimes, despite our best efforts to find enjoyment in a game, it simply turns out to be just too frustrating. I'd say that's what JWL3 is getting at here.

Sure, there comes a point where it's probably best to call it quits and you've said everything you can about a game, but given the situation, I'd say it's important that people speak out at this time.

I think the whole VC thing is atrocious, especially this year, BUT; I don't see why you complain that "the road is 2x harder this year". Isn't the point of playing that you have a journey ahead of you? Game's been out a week and it almost feels like you expect to have an 80 plus character already. What would be the fun in that? When you play RPG's, like Skyrim or similar, your character sucks in the beginning. It takes work and dedication to get a good character. Shouldn't basketball be the same?

A fair point, it shouldn't be too easy at the start and there should be a lot of gameplay to enjoy. The difference is that in a lot of those games, you progress at a fair pace and the journey is enjoyable. It was already a tough slog to grind up in NBA 2K17 unless you found a way to farm VC or paid for some, and it's become even tougher in NBA 2K18, further encouraging microtransactions. There's a Catch-22 at play here as well, since you need to put up good numbers to earn the VC to upgrade, but to be able to put up those good numbers, you need to upgrade your player.

There are some other differences compared to those other titles, too. A yearly sports title obviously comes out more often than RPGs you can play and replay for several years if you wish, and you need to undergo that grind each and every year. There are also online and pay-to-win components to NBA 2K. Even if you're willing to grind up, others are going to pay to take a shortcut, and you're going to get matched up against each other online. That's already a situation that sucks the fun out of the experience, and making it an even longer grind to be competitive reduces the fun factor even further.

The issue is that it's tougher in a way that seems artificial, detracting from the fun of the experience and encouraging microtransactions. I don't think JWL3 or anyone else is wanting the game to be easy or over quickly, just fair with reasonably paced progression.

Some players take 4-5 seasons in the NBA until they become great players. Shouldn't it take the same for our 2K characters. Especially considering we play as washed up DJ's who got lucky to make it to the league in the first place.

Definitely not. Sure, it'd be more realistic, but playing four or five seasons takes a long time, and again, you've got about twelve months until the next game comes out. You can simulate of course, but then you don't get the much-needed additional VC in order to level up at any kind of decent pace, or earn the Badges which are essential, especially online. It's just not practical.

In terms of the story, you're a former talented prospect who chose music over basketball, so you're not supposed to be complete garbage. More to the point, the same approach was used in previous stories, where you were definitely supposed to be something special and potentially The Next Big Thing. Consider also that this year, you're able to level up and earn Badges in 2K Pro-Am and The Playground without playing MyCAREER, making the story a moot point in terms of player building.

[JWL3]

Then don't play it? You literally never leave a positive comment about 2K, yet you play it every year. If you hate it, which is reasonable, then stop playing it.

Not everything is black and white, love or hate. The 2K experience is sublime at its best (finding good teammates to play with, making a nice play), insanely aggravating at it s worst (VC, micro-transactions, cheaters on the PC).

If all you do is act as sycophant to 2k, you're not holding them accountable and doing no one any favors. I'm not alone - the amount of players screaming that the VC grind is too much has reached a breaking point and 2K would be wise to heed them. They have pushed way too far this year, making a video game into something of a JOB.

https://gamerant.com/nba-2k18-microtran ... -backlash/

https://www.operationsports.com/vc-nba- ... ptability/

[JWL3]

I don't get it either. Why complain and keep playing? Why vent it here?

I think the whole VC thing is atrocious, especially this year, BUT; I don't see why you complain that "the road is 2x harder this year". Isn't the point of playing that you have a journey ahead of you? Game's been out a week and it almost feels like you expect to have an 80 plus character already. What would be the fun in that? When you play RPG's, like Skyrim or similar, your character sucks in the beginning. It takes work and dedication to get a good character. Shouldn't basketball be the same?
Some players take 4-5 seasons in the NBA until they become great players. Shouldn't it take the same for our 2K characters. Especially considering we play as washed up DJ's who got lucky to make it to the league in the first place.

The issues are:

1) You are paying to win - while I started at 60 and am now 65, almost everyone in MyPark is already 80+. And most of them paid to get to that level.
2) This is an ANNUAL title. For the last 5 years, every single year, I worked my as off doing these inane exercises and not having fun to level my guy up to 96 and finally able to enjoy the game (only to lose to 99 HOF cheats who got the game an hour ago, but that's another rant). And every year, just when I'm in the sweet spot of being able to play the game, a new 2K rolls along, taking 90% of the online users with them and rendering the old 2K a ghost town.
3) The story feels the same every single year, unlike a new RPG. So we're just rehashing the same garbage exercises and monotonous grinding year after year just so we can play with mildly improved graphics and improved gameplay on the newest version.
4) Other game types where you level up, you level up doing unique and interesting missions and quests - this is the same ol' junk every year.

Oh and trust me, I'm questioning why I'm playing this, this year more than any other. I'm 41. I have a young daughter and a job and other family obligations. The minimal free time I have, I want to be having fun, not doing these bs repetitive OCD tasks. Maybe I'm too old for this s***.

[JWL3]

Andrew said it perfectly - had I read his post before my two responses above, I wouldn't have had to respond.

The road up in RPGs is fun - full of storyline and missions, and also fighting weaker enemies. You never feel like you're completely inadequate and just doing the same rote actions again and again. To take a South Park analogy: Other level up games are like World of Warcraft, going on quests and missions. 2K18 is killing boars in the damned forest. Again and again and again and again. Just to get the measly 2 XP to level up your dude so that you can finally play the damned game against the dorks that will dominate and destroy you now if you show up.

[JWL3]

Great review from Kotaku:

https://kotaku.com/nba-2k18-mycareer-th ... 1818712286

[Andrew]

Very solid take on MyCAREER. Not just the grinding and microtransactions, but the cumbersome nature of The Neighborhood, and terrible story. The Steve Buscemi reference is quite apt.

[Dee4Three]

To be fair to JWL, he has every right to voice is displeasure with certain aspects of the game. I've seen him also state positive things about good games he has had, he called them refreshing. I hate the "then don't buy it" statement.

First off, just because he complains about certain things doesn't mean that he doesn't enjoy aspects of the game, hence his "refreshing" comments about certain games. Second off, his concerns are talking about a problem that many others voice concern over, should everybody who doesn't like an aspect of a certain system just not buy the game? Or should they support the product they have a love/hate relationship with and voice concerns with the hope that things get better with it.

I support those who bring to light issues while still buying the product, we just want it to get better. Just like me with 2K18, I own it, and I'm happy I do. That doesn't mean that I won't present my issues with the game, or try to find solutions to those problems.

[Andrew]

Jim Sterling's videos on the matter have been on-point, while also quite entertaining.

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[StyxTx]

Second off, his concerns are talking about a problem that many others voice concern over, should everybody who doesn't like an aspect of a certain system just not buy the game? Or should they support the product they have a love/hate relationship with and voice concerns with the hope that things get better with it.

The problem is they aren't getting better. Same issues pop up every version, and in some cases things get worse. 2k's focus now is finding more ways to get into a users pocket.

[ShadyMikeGaming]

I agree with the dude 1000 percent...

[TBM]

To be fair to JWL, he has every right to voice is displeasure with certain aspects of the game. I've seen him also state positive things about good games he has had, he called them refreshing. I hate the "then don't buy it" statement.

First off, just because he complains about certain things doesn't mean that he doesn't enjoy aspects of the game, hence his "refreshing" comments about certain games. Second off, his concerns are talking about a problem that many others voice concern over, should everybody who doesn't like an aspect of a certain system just not buy the game? Or should they support the product they have a love/hate relationship with and voice concerns with the hope that things get better with it.

I support those who bring to light issues while still buying the product, we just want it to get better. Just like me with 2K18, I own it, and I'm happy I do. That doesn't mean that I won't present my issues with the game, or try to find solutions to those problems.

There's no problem with complaining about 2K, but when your thoughts on the game are overwhelmingly negative year after year, it gets to a point where it's like, why the fuck do you keep buying it? It's insanity. And to cherry-pick one thing where he said something was refreshing is hardly looking at this in it's full picture. In the most recent page on his search history, his account tallied up to 19 clearly negative comments and 0 clearly positive comments about 2K. I searched his post history for the term refreshing, and the only post where he used that word was in 2008 for NBA Live.

[JWL3]

There's no problem with complaining about 2K, but when your thoughts on the game are overwhelmingly negative year after year, it gets to a point where it's like, why the fuck do you keep buying it? It's insanity. And to cherry-pick one thing where he said something was refreshing is hardly looking at this in it's full picture. In the most recent page on his search history, his account tallied up to 19 clearly negative comments and 0 clearly positive comments about 2K. I searched his post history for the term refreshing, and the only post where he used that word was in 2008 for NBA Live.

My posts against 2K have been about two major issues - cheating on the PC version by hackers who have hacked their guys to be 99 Hall of Fame and 8 ft tall. And VC. And around 2K9, I was annoyed at the cpu having a heavy hand at determining whether shots fell or not vs user control. They have since fixed that. I admit it - my posts here about 2K skew towards the negative. Just like my Yelp reviews. When I get an amazing dining experience, I don't run to Yelp to compliment. But when I get crap, I run to Yelp to vent. Same here. But as Andrew and Dee said, just cause you point out the negatives don't mean you don't appreciate the positives. I love that 2K puts out a game every year, esp for the PC. And I just mentioned that it's a sublime experience. All the more reason to vent when they mix caviar with horse manure (VC). The other modes are great. But MyCareer and MyPark, which is the mode I play most is utter crap when you start out. You need to put in 100-150 hours before you can get your guy to 85. And that is not 100 hours of fun. That's 100 hours of doing the same bullschit drills, waiting for load times, slogging through cutscenes. You took the easy way out and bought VC. That's why this doesn't bother you.


Here's something you can do: lay off the mods, start a mycareer. DON'T BUY VC. Tell us what level you get to before you toss your controller at your monitor. I'm guessing you won't make it past 75.

[Dee4Three]

To be fair to JWL, he has every right to voice is displeasure with certain aspects of the game. I've seen him also state positive things about good games he has had, he called them refreshing. I hate the "then don't buy it" statement.

First off, just because he complains about certain things doesn't mean that he doesn't enjoy aspects of the game, hence his "refreshing" comments about certain games. Second off, his concerns are talking about a problem that many others voice concern over, should everybody who doesn't like an aspect of a certain system just not buy the game? Or should they support the product they have a love/hate relationship with and voice concerns with the hope that things get better with it.

I support those who bring to light issues while still buying the product, we just want it to get better. Just like me with 2K18, I own it, and I'm happy I do. That doesn't mean that I won't present my issues with the game, or try to find solutions to those problems.

There's no problem with complaining about 2K, but when your thoughts on the game are overwhelmingly negative year after year, it gets to a point where it's like, why the fuck do you keep buying it? It's insanity. And to cherry-pick one thing where he said something was refreshing is hardly looking at this in it's full picture. In the most recent page on his search history, his account tallied up to 19 clearly negative comments and 0 clearly positive comments about 2K. I searched his post history for the term refreshing, and the only post where he used that word was in 2008 for NBA Live.

I swore he said it a couple times for 2k recently, my bad.

Either way, I stand by my post.

[JWL3]

Jim Sterling's videos on the matter have been on-point, while also quite entertaining.

That guy is hilarious. You expect the King's speech coming from an English accent - instead, it's a flood of colorful language.

[JWL3]

I swore he said it a couple times for 2k recently, my bad.

Either way, I stand by my post.

Thanks for the backup bro. I love past 2K's (90% of each one anyways) - all the more reason why I'm such an angry codger when there are game breaking faults like cheaters and this VC thing. Slogging through sludge to get to the gold at the end.

[Andrew]

I admit it - my posts here about 2K skew towards the negative. Just like my Yelp reviews. When I get an amazing dining experience, I don't run to Yelp to compliment. But when I get crap, I run to Yelp to vent. Same here.

You touch on a very good point about human nature, there. When we're happy, we tend not to have much to say. When we have complaints or a negative reaction to the media we consume, we're more likely to speak out, and talk at length. It tends to be a longer conversation than when you like something, which isn't necessarily right, but often just the way that it is. If you get good service from a business, you might tell two people about it. If you get bad service, you're likely going to tell ten, as the adage goes.

Criticism also tends to come across as being louder than praise. As a content creator, I can attest to getting a bunch of nice comments about a mod, video, or article that I've produced, but you can be sure that the one that sticks out is the jerk who was nasty or rude, or even just the person who said they didn't like it, or downvoted a video without further comment or feedback. Even if someone offers feedback that's a mixture of praise and criticism, you can be sure that the criticism is what will jump out at you the most. Throw in the fact we're more likely to talk about things we don't like as opposed to the things that we do, and it can seem like someone is always being negative, even when they're talking about positive things as well.

[maddenftbl]

"Are you not entertained"

Reference to Gladiator? Best picture and best actor in 2000!

Sorry, this off topic. It's my favorite film of all time!

[JWL3]

"Are you not entertained"

Reference to Gladiator? Best picture and best actor in 2000!

Sorry, this off topic. It's my favorite film of all time!

Yup! Still one of the best movie experiences in my life (may be #1, I was too young for the original Star Wars and Indy's). Went in with zero expectations.

[maddenftbl]

"Are you not entertained"

Reference to Gladiator? Best picture and best actor in 2000!

Sorry, this off topic. It's my favorite film of all time!

Yup! Still one of the best movie experiences in my life (may be #1, I was too young for the original Star Wars and Indy's). Went in with zero expectations.

I was 28 in 2000. I am still addicted, remember every word of the whole film. When it comes on cable or anywhere else, I just say to myself...sigh, there goes another 2 hours! From story to direction, to acting, visuals, all the way through score, imo, top 10! Could be the best Hans Zimmer ever composed!

"I knew a man once who said, death smiles on all men. All a man can do is smile back"

[JWL3]

"Are you not entertained"

Reference to Gladiator? Best picture and best actor in 2000!

Sorry, this off topic. It's my favorite film of all time!

Yup! Still one of the best movie experiences in my life (may be #1, I was too young for the original Star Wars and Indy's). Went in with zero expectations.

I was 28 in 2000. I am still addicted, remember every word of the whole film. When it comes on cable or anywhere else, I just say to myself...sigh, there goes another 2 hours! From story to direction, to acting, visuals, all the way through score, imo, top 10! Could be the best Hans Zimmer ever composed!

"I knew a man once who said, death smiles on all men. All a man can do is smile back"

It's been copied by so many other films. Like Game of Thrones, the gladiator pep talk scene with Tyrion and Jorah Mormont. And Syriel Forel saying "what do we say to death - not today. "