The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

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The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:15 am

Video 1- Default HOF

This deserves it's own thread.

I've played quite a bit of 2K18 in between modding. The defense in this game is absolutely horrible. I play on HOF, and no matter who I use I can run by my guy into the paint. I was using Rick Fox on Scottie Pippen and I kept just running by him (Pippen would just get on my side and I'd be at the rim). Everybody feels the same for the most part.

The wing defenders still move out of the way out of bounds when you dribble up the floor. The big guys get open just as much running down the middle of the lane. What makes this game worse than 2K17 defensively is how easy it is to get by anyone with anyone. Not even a challenge on HOF.

This game is weaker gameplay wise for me than 2K17, it doesn't feel right. Not to mention every player looking the same body wise and mostly feeling the same.

I know it's not the popular thing to stick with a past title, but I'm continuing playing pre patch 2k17 in between modding (I'll mod both games). I'm not going to just play something and move on because it's the newest game in a series.


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Video 2 - New Slider Set

So here it is, with your sliders Sticky Fingers. This is me using the Knicks agains tthe Warriors, and literally only driving in a straight line towards the hoop. When I stop the video, I am 10-13 from the floor, up by 4, and on pace for 160 points. It is exactly the same success with your sliders. The defense is complete garbage and broken. Look at the help defense (lack of), I am even going to post the screenshots of the sliders so the people on here can stop saying the defense is good, or better, or just overall a better experience than 2k17. You guys have to be kidding me.... this is the easiest stuff in the world. I could crush the Warriors with the Knicks by driving in a straight line all game.

There are no breaks in this video, this is straight recording, so I cant be accused of doctoring it. Its straight video capture and upload.You guys want to see why I havn't fully moved on? Watch the video and check out those sliders. Look how the defense does 0 to adjust, look how I can run passed anyone with anyone, look how uncontested I am all the time. Nextnba.. a break? EVERY TIME I play the game? Every slider set? You guys cannot possible struggle to score in this game, I am literally doing nothing and roasting the Warriors with the Knicks with straight line drives.

Please stop with the standing up for this, it's horrible. Sko knows how much time I put into these games, its insane. I've been doing this since the early 90's, give me a little more credit next time.


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Video 3 - Different Slider Set

This is with ShadyMikes defensive sliders that he just posted. Now, I am posting this to show that I did try these sliders, and I wanted you folks to see the results. This isn't calling him out, as there was a SLIGHT improvement on interior defense, but nowhere near acceptable under any standards.

4 minute quarters, the whole game. Im using the Celtics vs the Warriors, every single shot attempt is a straight line drive (With the exception of 1 putback I attempted, woops).

Game Facts:

1. I win by 12 against the best team in the NBA in 4 minute quarters. It probably would have been an over 30 point blowout if I had played 12 minute quarters.
2. I shot 23/37 from the field, good for 63%. ALL on straight line drives to the hoop.
3. You will see me use many different Celtics on many different defenders. Watch the defense especially in the 4th quarter, where I am just running through and around Klay Thompson effortlessly to score.
4. Every single play is an iSO with the exception of one attempted putback.
5. Not one move was made, not one play was run (other than ISO), zero strategy.
6. I had 46 points in the paint. If this was 12 minute quarters, I could have had 138 points in the paint...... 138 points in the paint!!!
7. Many layups were missed right at the rim after I easily got by my guy and help didnt come. The FG% realistically should have been even higher.

This set has CPU with:

Body Up Sensitivity: 100
Driving Contact Dunk Frequency: 100
Inside Shot Contact Frequency: 100
Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff): 100
Layup Defense Strength (Release): 100
Help Defense Strength: 100
On-Ball Defense: 100
Blocking: 80
Defensive Awareness: 90
Defensive Rebounding: 80
Lateral Quickness: 70
Go for on ball steals: 100
Contest Shots: 100
Strength: 50 (User at 30)

So you guys are telling me, with these super extreme sliders... I can just run into the paint with no moves or no strategy, be on pace for about 138 pts in the paint (with 12 min quarters), and blowout the best team in the league? Do you see why I don't have any interest in this game at the moment? You cant get higher than 100 on those sliders people, thats as high as you can jack it up. So what you saw in that video might be the best you can get for defense.... thats the best you can probably do.

Shady, putting layup defense at 100 gave the Warriors a few blocks. But you know as well as I do that it's still game breaking, the fact that I can do this all game and blowout the best team in the NBA... its insane. Look at the sliders and how little they do (I want to say again, not your fault). I shot 70% in the Knicks vs Warriors game, and 63% here, all with straight line drives.

I am hoping that they do patch the game, that would be fantastic. Because anything is better than this. See how that 4th quarter went? You think I want anything to do with a game that I can just run around or through my guy and score the majority of the time? What fun is that? You want me to start a MyLeague with that ability? Do you guys want me to fake doing dribble moves for no reason just because they look cool? Want me to run plays I dont need to run? Its silly.

Do you see how the defense doesn't adjust ALL GAME. How no adjustment happens at all in the 4th quarter? This 2K is the furthest from a basketball sim on next gen, hands down.

It was stated that me playing like this is not the way they expect us to play... umm... Klay Thompson just letting me run by him with Marcus Smart whenever I want is not how I expect the GAME to play. The game needs to supply the resistance, it's not my fault that nobody can stay in front of anyone, or that help hardly ever comes. Somehow I am playing the wrong way? the game is playing the wrong way, the game allows this to happen. Have you watched my gameplay videos? I do play the right way when it's necessary, I move the ball, I post up, I set screens, etc. I don't need to do any of that in this game, I can shoot 63% on the best team in the league just running into the paint. See how crazy that was in the 4th quarter with those jacked up sliders? Do you see how boring and dull it is to know that I can literally just run into the paint on the best defenders in the league?

C'mon guys... lets be real here. It's totally broken. However, I want to give Shady props for doing his best to focus on the gameplay and find fixes, its tedious work. It's a lot of testing, a lot of playing, a lot of simulating, it's a lot of things. So, be glad we have him around.


phpBB [video]
Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:32 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:34 am

I think you have the speed/AI break that is known to happen to many in 2k. I had it in 2k17 but once I got a solid state hard drive, the speed and AI was much more stable. When it happens, all players speed become really fast and cpu no longer play on-ball defense and you blow by them at will. I've only started playing the 2k18 today and is just testing it out but so far, the speed and AI has been stable and it's been really hard for me drive pass my defender. They actually come right up to my face at times and when I'm able to get by, the off ball defenders help out really well on defense. The defense is really improved. If you want to test it out, remove your video driver and reinstall it. Usually, when you do this, the game will will be stable for like 2 quarters, where the speed is normal and you can't really by defenders. Then you will see it break after half-time and you can get by defender at will.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:37 am

With all due respect, that has nothing to do with it.... nothing.

2K17 is playing perfect right now. The SSD drive helps with loading screens and distant objects not popping. It has nothing to do with speed breaks, however that is not what is happening here anyway.

A SSD wouldn't make Pippen be so easy to blow by, or anybody for that matter. I've seen other people mention it's easy to get by people, but for me it's game breaking. I can get by anybody at any time I want.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:42 am

Well, I'm telling you that it's not happening to me. At least not now. Maybe the game will break on me with time but so far defense has been great. And from what I can read on here, it's not happening to most people. Even when I play with L. James, I find it really hard to get by my defenders and get to the basket. I also play in Hall of Fame mode and I've been playing nba 2k for many years. This is the best AI defense I've seen in years. I went 2/7 with L James in the first quarter and only got to the basket with him once. I think half of my shots were 3's because it was almost impossible for me to get to the basket.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:44 am

We can disagree.

I can round the corner on anyone. It's cake.

It's not speed breaks, it's the game.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:52 am

Most of my 3's were contested too. I kept trying to get by CPU and eventually can't do it and run out of time so I those it out to a 3 point shooter at the buzzer. Seriously, if you are getting by cpu at will, it's a break. I'm actually trying to get by CPU because I'm testing it to see if I have the same break from 2k17 and so far, it's been good and stable. I haven't even played a full game yet. I'm just testing to see if the break is happening and if I can get by CPU at will and so far I can't. But I will keep playing and see what happens.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:54 am

A break would make sense if it was impacting the other aspects of the gameplay. But when I have full control of my speed and ball handling with my offensive player, and when I am playing defense, it doesn't make sense that a break would just allow me to get the defender on my side all the time. None of my other games are "breaking" either.

You see my problem with that logic?
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:21 pm

All I can say is that it's hard for me to get by defenders. I either get stuck and have to pass the ball out or if I get by, another defender comes in and I have to pass the ball out. The few times that I do get by, I get foul almost every time at the basket when trying to do a layup/dunk. I even tried pick and rolls and that doesn't work like 2k17. You team mates sets shitty picks and it's hard to take advantage of pick like in 2k17. CPU recovers well on pick and roll plays. So far, the only way for me to really take advantage is doing back down post. CPU post defense is bad and it seems like 2k gives your player multiple new post moves this year so it's easy to score near the basket on post moves.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:29 pm

Again we can disagree. The defense is horrible to me. I'm glad you are enjoying the game
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:05 pm

If ur defense is bad, I still think you have a break. I can't get by defenders at all..even when there is a switch and I have Curry against a C, I still can't get by him. And if I really force it, there is always contact at the rim and I usually miss. From what I read, people are having the same situation with defense AI. My only recommending is in slider, there is a new "Movement" sliders. I don't know what you have yours set up too but I would suggest decreasing speed and acceleration there and that should make it much harder to get by defenders.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby PeacemanNOT on Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:17 pm

From the little that I've played I've loved the game, a lot better than 2K17 in all aspects. However defense does feel sluggish at random moments. I'm not sure if it's the game or an actual hardware problem (my computer is starting to become a little outdated).

I haven't really encountered what Dee is talking about where you can drive by anyone, I actually find it hard to get by people when on offense. I might have to test this out a bit more.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby m29a on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Dee4Three wrote:no matter who I use I can run by my guy into the paint.

What makes this game worse than 2K17 defensively is how easy it is to get by anyone with anyone.


I'd rather have that than the brick wall D we've had since... forever. For me in past titles I literally had to use pick and roll almost every time to even have a chance to get by anyone, even a weak defender or a slow big. 2K16/17 were bad for that. 2K15 was okay in that regard. But this year? It's realistic, in real life there is a lot of hip-riding because as a defender irl you can't just block people, it'd be a foul.

I guess they could tweak the default HOF sliders (or you can tweak, so many sliders to work with) to make it more difficult. But I personally never want brick walling ever again (and it's still here, somewhat).

They finally fixed my key issue I had with the series. This is by far my favorite 2K.

Just my 2c.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby CarolusXCI on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:10 pm

Did you have any success tweaking the sliders?
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:13 pm

Zero success tweaking the sliders.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby CarolusXCI on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:26 pm

I tried to bump the Def. Awareness all the way to 100, and I liked the results. On HoF difficulty, it is at 65. The rest of the sliders I adjust to 50/50. So the difficulty is "custom". I feel like the HoF only nerfs the user attributes and buffs the cpu ones. Defensive awareness looks a little bit different than the rest though. It seems like cpu takes better decisions defensively when that slider is at 100. I don't feel the game harder because I'm nerfed, but instead because the cpu won't let Dirk open on pick'n' pop situations, or because Kawhi will poke the ball loose if I force a straight-line drive animation too much, for example.

I still can drive in a straight line, but less often, and when it does happen, the shot is normally contested or blocked, so I end up taking a shot from somewhere else.

Maybe it's only an impression though.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby bongo88 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:23 pm

Sam Pham made a video about defensive settings. It's rather long, but he goes over settings and then shows a video clip of defensive coach settings in action.
i like the clips displaying the different settings.

Of course ACE has to be turned off. Otherwise, the coach settings would be over-ruled. (from what i've read, ace just seems to be broken, just in general.)

anyways, it involves setting the coach defensive settings for each team and not leaving anything on auto. anyways, it's a pretty good video, if y'all wanna watch it.

*Edit* these settings interface is only available after you start a game. my memory thought it was part of the roster settings for each team, but the coach settings have a very slimmed down version. that's too bad. anyways, these are settings for your team mates and not all cpu ai.

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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby mitzkiro58 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:14 pm

I put defense slider to 100 still weak wtf?! Need next patch 2k!
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:54 pm

It's a break. I have it now too. It takes a few games of playing. It's the same as 2k17..At first you play and the speed is slow, CPU plays onball defense, and it's really hard to drive pass CPU. CPU feels like a brick and your players feel like they have weight. After a few games of playing, the speed and defense breaks. The speed becomes much faster, your players no longer have weight, and AI defense no longer play onball defense. I tried changing a few sliders too but when it breaks, sliders no longer work. 2k has been like this for last 3-4 years. When it doesn't break, it works really well but when it breaks, it's like playing a game with no sliders at all. You can change sliders here and there and it seems to get better for a little bit but then the game adjusted to the slider change and it starts to play like it has no slider again.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby TGsoGood on Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:51 am

Dee4Three I believe it is a gameplay mechanic. Straightline drives mostly result in the defense going into the "hip riding" animation. Honestly I'm ok with this when using current teams because it gives me that "this era has soft defense" feel lmao!

But it does suck when running into this same issue playing against retro teams (no handchecking rules) or even with elite defenders.
I don't mind having 2K17 defense for 90s and prior as well as having elite perimeter defenders not get caught in that animation so easily.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:41 am

TGsoGood wrote:Dee4Three I believe it is a gameplay mechanic. Straightline drives mostly result in the defense going into the "hip riding" animation. Honestly I'm ok with this when using current teams because it gives me that "this era has soft defense" feel lmao!

But it does suck when running into this same issue playing against retro teams (no handchecking rules) or even with elite defenders.
I don't mind having 2K17 defense for 90s and prior as well as having elite perimeter defenders not get caught in that animation so easily.


Thank you for recognizing that it's a gameplay mechanic as opposed to a break. Even if the defender is right in front of me, I do the straight line drive you speak of and easily get to the hoop with little to no resistance. Ratings seem to be thrown out the window at that point.

And I don't like that in any era. If it was that easy, Jae Crowder in real life would be a dominant slasher, so would the legend Brian Cook when he was playing. For me, it's a killer. Stonewall defense absolutely happens in real life at times (hence the term, being "shut off" by a defender). There needs to be a happy medium.

The gameplay feels out of control partially because of this gameplay issue.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby TGsoGood on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:57 am

I do think it is something that can be fixed, the stonewall defense is still in the game but it is triggered far less.
I know its in the game because I tested the straight line drives mechanic last week using Celtics vs. Cavs. I was celtics.
After getting past Lebron with Tatum, the next play I tried the exact same thing and Lebron bodied Tatum, would not let him go any where. This was on Superstar settings. That alone let me know that it is in the game but for some reason it is only rarely triggered.

You should do some testing and notate the results, it will make a difference in what you notice happening. I tested straightline drives by doing nothing but straightline drives for 2 entire games (3 min quarters).
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby sticky-fingers on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:13 am

Dee4Three, you're right about driving to the basket is too simple now against the CPU.
But I appreciate the fact that stonewall defense is over, most of the time.
it was something we could disable with the sliders on 2K11/13/14, but hard to disable on next gen versions.
In fact, both are unrealistic, but i prefear 2K18 version.

I dont know if it can be fix by the sliders, but playing a game vs CPU is more enjoyable on 2K18 than on 2K17, and at this point it's with the default and horrible 2K rosters, and on HoF sliders.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby hova- on Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:41 am

Its possible to fix it with sliders. Im working on the sliders right now. I think that also in real life many nba players can drive past their defender, but the question is what can they do with the defender still on them driving to the hoop. Also help defense plays a role. I will work on it.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby TGsoGood on Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:51 am

hova- wrote:Its possible to fix it with sliders. Im working on the sliders right now. I think that also in real life many nba players can drive past their defender, but the question is what can they do with the defender still on them driving to the hoop. Also help defense plays a role. I will work on it.


I lean more toward this interpretation of the defense after my own testing. But it could just be my preference.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby StyxTx on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:36 am

Isn't it possible to fix defense by adjusting the defensive settings in the game plan? I know in the past, having everything set on automatic made things a mess. This video explains what I'm talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIPDiMgDhIQ
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:36 pm

If it's not a break than why are there some people on here complaining that the defense is too good and then others saying they can get by CPU at well. If it's not a break then why does changing the sliders have no effect? If it's not a break then how come when u quit the game and play another game you still have same issue even though u playing a different team w players w different speed and defense. It's a break. I was able to get in 3 good games in where it was really hard to get by CPU then the speed broke and now I'm running around really quick and I can get by cpu at will. I was playing at game speed 50 and movement felt slow. When it breaks I have to adjust game speed to 45 and even at 45, it feels mulch faster than 50 when it wasn't broken. When it doesn't break CPU defense is really good and the game is perfect. It's like the best NBA game I ever play. When it breaks you can score at well and the game becomes junk where it feels like non of the sliders have effect no more.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:30 am

This is why I am not playing NBA 2K18 right now. This is on HOF, and watch the score. This is me just taking straight paths to the hoop without making moves. Either just running around the defender or through. The score is almost a full first quarter score halfway through the quarter JUST doing this. It doesn't matter if Draymond Green is on me, it doesn't matter who is one me on either team (I am switching teams to be on offense every possession). It doesn't matter if Im on the break, or in the halfcourt calling isos, or not calling isos at all. Its the worst defense in video game history.

You can't deny what I am showing with video evidence. Seldom does help come, and even with slider tweaks I just blow past the CPU. It's not fun.

I am sticking with 2K17 right now because it's a lot more fun. This is just complete cake, its so easy.

WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO:

phpBB [video]
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby nextnba on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:37 am

That is what happens when it breaks. When it doesn't break, you can not get around the defender at all. They feel like brick and it's hard to get around them. When it breaks, the speed becomes fast and CPU don't play defense anymore. Look at these two videos I have.

Speed breaks so I set acceleration and speed to 0. But look at how fast they still go and look at how easy it is for me to get to the basket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plNtOqqvxjE

I'm in the process of uploading a video and will provide you the link to what happens when it does not break and how hard it is to get around CPU.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:40 am

Listen.. I was easily getting around the CPU on XBOX One as well, that does not have speed breaks.

I'm asking you to please stop with the speed break thing. It's a gameplay mechanic issue.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby nextnba on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:56 am

Now look at this video when it doesn't break. All I am trying to do is drive to the basket. I'm even forcing it but CPU puts their body on me and pushes me away from the hoop. The feel like brick and I can't move around them. It forces me to back off and I force it again. Even if I'm able to get through on my 2nd try, cpu help defense is right there waiting for me. Look at how hard it is for me to get around CPU. CPU continues to push me and I struggle really hard to get to the hoop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf6ys5XyF2I

What usually happens is that I can get a few quarters in, maybe even a few games, and then of a sudden it breaks and I can get by CPU at will. When it happens, it's really obvious because the speed changes and CPU no longer plays any defense.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby nextnba on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:58 am

Dee4Three wrote:Listen.. I was easily getting around the CPU on XBOX One as well, that does not have speed breaks.

I'm asking you to please stop with the speed break thing. It's a gameplay mechanic issue.


Look at my 2nd videos. How is this not a break?
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:07 pm

That second video it's still broken. You easily just run by the defender on the first 2 posessions (the second one you pull back).

And, I do the same thing on console. I literally just run passed the defense.

It's not a break, it's the mechanics. The second video proved my point even further.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby CarolusXCI on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:38 pm

I think I know a way to fix this: nba_animations.iff editing. I'm currently testing some stuff, let's see..
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 pm

CarolusXCI wrote:I think I know a way to fix this: nba_animations.iff editing. I'm currently testing some stuff, let's see..


I'm guessing you now see why I'm frustrated....
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby CarolusXCI on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:47 pm

Dee4Three wrote:I'm guessing you now see why I'm frustrated....


Yea, you have a point, no question.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby eko718 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:42 pm

My experience is great with sliders. For your issue, on the ball defense should be adjusted.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:47 pm

eko718 wrote:My experience is great with sliders. For your issue, on the ball defense should be adjusted.


As stated prior, I have tried this.

I'm not new to sliders or basketball video games.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby nextnba on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:27 pm

Dee4Three wrote:That second video it's still broken. You easily just run by the defender on the first 2 posessions (the second one you pull back).

And, I do the same thing on console. I literally just run passed the defense.

It's not a break, it's the mechanics. The second video proved my point even further.


No. When it's not broken, when you try to drive it in, contact is made with CPU and your player gets stuck or gets push away. Look at how Curry puts his arm on me and I can't get around him. I pull back because my player got stuck and it won't allow me to go toward the basket anymore. But when it breaks, you can just fly by them. CPU can't even touch your guy. Also, when it doesn't break, you can adjust the slider and it will work. If you adjust onball defense to 100, CPU onball is really good and it's almost impossible to get by them. But when it breaks, the sliders don't work anymore. You can put onball to 100 and you will still fly by them at will. The speed becomes really fast and even if you decrease speed or acceleration, it still very fast. I can get a few games in and it will play great but when it breaks, it becomes junk. Even if I play other teams, it's still broken. It's not a mechanism because when it breaks, it's across the board. No matter what team you play, no matter what you do to the slider, nothing works anymore. What I usually do is just turn the game off and turn it back on and then it plays fine again. Sometimes, if it doesn't, then I just stop and play it again the next day and it works fine for a bit, until it breaks again.

I'm not saying that what your experiencing is not happening to me. It happens and it's so frustrating. When it happens, the game is junk like you said because scoring becomes so easy. But all I'm saying is that sometime I don't get a break and it plays fine. It actually plays great.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby bongo88 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:47 pm

I watched your video, dee, and think there could be some decent discussion here.

to summarize, the first half of the video is you blowing past transition defense, or mostly transition defense. the second half of the video is you calling iso play in a half court set.

so, i am wondering exactly what you are expecting the defense to do in the plays that you showed?

feel free to timestamp a few of the plays from the video and explain what you expect should have happened.

I have more opinions about this topic, but first i'm wondering exactly how you are expecting the defense to counter in the examples you provided.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:55 pm

bongo88 wrote:I watched your video, dee, and think there could be some decent discussion here.

to summarize, the first half of the video is you blowing past transition defense, or mostly transition defense. the second half of the video is you calling iso play in a half court set.

so, i am wondering exactly what you are expecting the defense to do in the plays that you showed?

feel free to timestamp a few of the plays from the video and explain what you expect should have happened.

I have more opinions about this topic, but first i'm wondering exactly how you are expecting the defense to counter in the examples you provided.


The first few highlights are transition, where the defense moves out of my way. (First 40 seconds)

The rest, is me in one on one situations, and I literally just run passed my guy, without doing any moves. I just... run by him.

There is no debate. It's a problem, a huge one. That video proves it.

So let's not make excuses, let's take it for what it is and try and find a fix. Also, this thread itself is a start so hopefully 2k sees it.

Dont sugarcoat it guys, it's garbage. It's gamebreaking for me 100%.

And what do I expect the defense to do?... umm... not let me just run by them every time. Not let me just get to the hoop whenever I want. And what do I want the help defense to do? Well.. help, you know... see that my defender is not playing any defense and come over to try and stop me.

With all due respect, I can't believe you just asked that. I expect the defender to play defense... not just stand there while I run by him...
Last edited by Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:21 pm

Bongo, I do think you are a good guy. And, from conversations we have had I think you know basketball. I don't need to pin point times, the whole video is the problem. You should know that without me even saying anything.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby hova- on Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:09 pm

I am working on sliders right now and it is hard to eliminate the easy driving. But you definitely MUST NOT use the HoF sliders.

You need a heavy increase of the sliders in:

- on ball D
- help D
- def aware.
- blocking/charging fouls
- shot contest
- body collision

you really need to tone down the sliders for:

- ball handling
- ball security

im working on it
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby TGsoGood on Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:46 pm

You shouldn't have to tone down offensive sliders to help the defense out.

As stated earlier I think modding the defensive animations may help.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:55 am

TGsoGood wrote:You shouldn't have to tone down offensive sliders to help the defense out.

As stated earlier I think modding the defensive animations may help.


Not too mention that I've stated numerous times that I have tried basically everything with the sliders and it does nothing. Not trying to be a dick, and I really appreciate the attempt at help, but I've said a couple times in here that I've messed with the sliders. I'm not a rookie.

Also, this is a issue even if we find a fix with animations.iff, because that doesn't help console users, and it also doesn't make it right. It needs to be brought to 2K's attention. HOF is supposed to be the hardest level, it's freakin "Hall of Fame". The fact that you have to say that the defense is horrible and sliders are easy on HOF is alarming. The gameplay mechanics on defense are broken, the defense is even worse than last year. Players moving out of the way even more, just running by players... it's silly.

And again, we need to stop with the excuses. Things like it's a speed break related to a driver issue, or "what do I expect the defense to do", etc. That helps nothing, and I've stated already that I can do the same thing on consoles. It's in no way fun, playing the CPU or even another human feels lame and easy in this game. The only way we can fix a problem like this is being on the same page and being realistic.

Anybody who knows basketball, and even people that dont know it well, would watch that video and state "why is the defender just standing there?", "why do they keep letting them just run by", "why are they just letting them score?", "why are they moving out of the way". It's really black & white in the video.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby hova- on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:47 am

Well lets hope for a patch but still try to make the best out of it by adjusting sliders. That's all we can hope for now.
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Re: The defense is broken (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby bongo88 on Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:24 am

It is my opinion that 2k makes drives artifically difficult. I watched the video and was wondering what you expected the cpu to happen, because my memory itched that most dribble drives in the nba are hipriding or fairly untouched. I started looking around youtube for dribble drive highlights and found a few then got distracted by a 1995 bulls/jazz game. I watched the whole game last night, and saw so many dribble drives that i was gonna come back today and notate them.

full disclosure, i watched nba religously from 89-2001 or so. then life got busy and have watched much. caught a couple of finals games last year. lebron gave his best, that's for sure. oh, and was a jazz fan. born in 84. all us kids idoloized stockton (we new we'd never have malone stature, but we could play like stockton). never played basketball seriously, but plenty of pickup for fun. just wasn't athletic enough to pursue. that's how i got distracted by this jazz/bull game, but noticed so many drives through the 4 quarters to look at. i remember watching this game because i remember the jordan dunk in the second half. whole stadium cheering for jordan, lol. me too on the couch. couldn't help myself, that jordan for you.

sadly, only got through the first quarter due to time restraints, but you should watch the whole game. Its is just beautiful. anyways, the bulls went 72-10 that year, the jazz went 55-27.

examples of blow by drives:
link stockton blows by jordan. untouched. even worse than your 2k18 video.
link jordan with the drive untouched, little bit of hip riding, but so little i decided to put it in this category.

dribble drives untouched/hipriding

link stockton untouched help defense over
link stockton untouched through the lane
link not really a dribble drive, but longley to the basket untouched
link malone dribble drive untouched, help comes
link lol chris morris untouched with 4 bulls around him, lol
link morris untouched, help doubled
link stockton with a drive, morris with drive on kucos(mismatch)(possible morris charge), then kucos trying to hedge benoit liek players do in 2k(kukoc gets the foul) (this is an amazing camera angle of spacing on drives)
link bulls big man drive (cant tell who) it is kucos\
link malone drives untouched. jordan all over on defense-- where'd he learn to play defense, 2k? left his guy hornacek wide open, team rating going to go down :) haha :)
link bull big man caffey untouched with malone defending. runs into helps. good replay footage.
https://youtu.be/S850XEVcF58?t=1592 stockton dribble drive. not much pressure on carr drive. then too bad jordan missed end of quater shot. woulda been a good one. :)

good drive defense
link - very good dribble drive defense by jordan, but still not much touching, no hard hedge
link - stockton testing jordans dribble drive defense, still not much touching
link - stockton testing jordan again a simple twitch sends jordon into high alert
link - hornacek playing point. jordan cuts him off. very different respect from jordan towards hornacek than jordan/stockton due to hornacek not athletic.

Transition defense
link pippen transition blows by malone
link jordan on semi trasition open jumper
link 2 plays stockton transition then jordan transition on next play
link malone trying to slam the ball against longley, (longle dodged) haha. then stockton playing dirty with dangerous defensive play in trasition (could be an injury on pippen if things went bad)
link horrible tranistion decision by bulls (cant tell who) felt like 2k :)

capitilizing on mistakes
link malone mistake jordan with defensive rebound capitilizing on malone mistake (perfect malone positioning)
link pippen mistake
link hornacek under the screen. jordan capitalizes.


random haha (mostly commentary lol )
link haha story about jordan going to local movie theater (random, lol)
link jordan attemptin 4 threes a game, so many! :)
link haha rookie ostertag... we jazz fans loved/hated that guy :)
link LOL LOL pippen with an airball freethrow :) we shoulda had reddit back then :) he woulda been roasted :) lol fans and commentators acknowledge it loool :)
link hornacek could shoot... 59% from 3 course it was early in the season... commentary
link haha, another pippen airball freethrow. bad night for pippen :) love them 90s utah fans :) haha, commentary about bleeding uniforms when washed, funny guys :)
link jordan all over on defense. where'd he learn to play defense, 2k? left his guy hornacek wide open, team rating going to go down :) haha :)

again, that was all in the first quarter. i watched the whole game last night. more examples in the next 3 quarters. no time this morning. outta the whole game dribble drives, most went untouched/hipriding. few were well gaurded. most relied on help defense to rotate.

now, this isn't the greatest sample size. I included the big men plays for variety. I'd need to watch a variety of games with a variety of players. But these bulls/jazz were no slouch on defense. i'd need a few more games to watch with different players... was gonna watch bulls/san antonion game on the sidebar, but this took too much time.

I say 2k makes dribble drives artifically difficult because according to my memory most drives are rather untouched. link 2k does stuff like this. i tried to find the equivallency in the nba and came up with this play. link not really a great example. doesnt seem to happen that often.

link possibly this play jordan/hornacek is equivalancy. but jordan knows he very much more athletic than hornacek and to jump that drive is quite a bit of quickness and defensive awareness from jordan. would another less equal player jumped that drive in that manner? dunno.

these are the other examples i found before getting distracted by the jazz/bull game
harden untouched on iso plays: link

link nice dribble drive breakdown. 2 drives on this play, 1st drive the pg recovers, but the 2nd drive follows the same hip riding motion almost untouched, the drive is ended by help defense in the paint, which led to the kick out

anyways, it's my opinion that this 2k, while not perfect, and while can be exploited if user want to, is moving in the right direction with the movement scheme. I am super impressed in the customability of this 2k. they added more movement sliders. the difference between tomba sliders here and shady sliders hereis amazing that you can get the game to feel so different.

with your video, the help defense should rotate more. i havent looked much into iso drive by plays to see how help defense rotates in real nba, but to say that this doesn't mimick nba drives just itches my memory wrong.

oh, transition defense... long passes can also be exploited. but i think its better than cpu ai deflecting passes that they not even looking at (happened lots on transittion in old 2k games). i got no problem with the transition defense clips you posted. in full transition defense (and transition defense that is just sets) all sorta things happen on defense/offense. its part of the game.

anyways, perhaps help should slide over more and movement can be slowed/sped up (both helped with nba2k sliders), but to say that nba players are always stonewalled on a dribble drive is just wrong according to my memory of the games i've watched.

the real question: is this game artificial, or are older 2k dribble drives artificial and this game more true to player movement.

in my opinion, the hip riding animation is a nice break from the stonewalling, but 2k needs to put even more seperation on drives.

ps. make sure you watch the 2 pippen airball freethrows :) my favorite clips of first quarter haha :) hate them bulls... boohoohooohooo :( gonna need tissues as i cry and cry on my way to work, haha :)
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby rickberge on Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:33 am

Dee4Three wrote:
TGsoGood wrote:You shouldn't have to tone down offensive sliders to help the defense out.

As stated earlier I think modding the defensive animations may help.


Not too mention that I've stated numerous times that I have tried basically everything with the sliders and it does nothing. Not trying to be a dick, and I really appreciate the attempt at help, but I've said a couple times in here that I've messed with the sliders. I'm not a rookie.

Also, this is a issue even if we find a fix with animations.iff, because that doesn't help console users, and it also doesn't make it right. It needs to be brought to 2K's attention. HOF is supposed to be the hardest level, it's freakin "Hall of Fame". The fact that you have to say that the defense is horrible and sliders are easy on HOF is alarming. The gameplay mechanics on defense are broken, the defense is even worse than last year. Players moving out of the way even more, just running by players... it's silly.

And again, we need to stop with the excuses. Things like it's a speed break related to a driver issue, or "what do I expect the defense to do", etc. That helps nothing, and I've stated already that I can do the same thing on consoles. It's in no way fun, playing the CPU or even another human feels lame and easy in this game. The only way we can fix a problem like this is being on the same page and being realistic.

Anybody who knows basketball, and even people that dont know it well, would watch that video and state "why is the defender just standing there?", "why do they keep letting them just run by", "why are they just letting them score?", "why are they moving out of the way". It's really black & white in the video.


I agree with everything you just stated. The experience of execution and knowledge of the games goes out the door when you know all you have to do is turbo to the basket to get a point. Really kills the challenge of playing against the CPU.

If you look closely, it seems that even the elite defenders do not take angles when defending. It's an automatic hip-ride. There should be more "beat man to the spot" animation for elite defenders. Only a Patch can fix this. Hopefully there can be a happy medium between the stonewall defense and the hip-ride animation in regard to what triggers such animation.
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Re: The defense is broken (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:41 am

bongo88 wrote:It is my opinion that 2k makes drives artifically difficult. I watched the video and was wondering what you expected the cpu to happen

i'm pretty agree with you
i commented sooner today on D43's YT video.
For me, the major failure for the 1st part is the defensive help. i
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby eko718 on Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:26 am

Dee4Three wrote:
eko718 wrote:My experience is great with sliders. For your issue, on the ball defense should be adjusted.


As stated prior, I have tried this.

I'm not new to sliders or basketball video games.


Didn't say you were. However, adjusting the on ball defense DOES WORK for the issue you mentioned. I noticed the same issue, specifically in the Prelude.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion (UPDATED WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE)

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:55 am

eko718 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
eko718 wrote:My experience is great with sliders. For your issue, on the ball defense should be adjusted.


As stated prior, I have tried this.

I'm not new to sliders or basketball video games.


Didn't say you were. However, adjusting the on ball defense DOES WORK for the issue you mentioned. I noticed the same issue, specifically in the Prelude.


It didn't work for me. And, the average player (99% of user base ₩ doesn't mess with sliders, they just choose a difficulty. Even if extreme slider tweaks fixed it, it wouldn't fix it for the average gamer who doesn't touch them.
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