The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Talk about NBA 2K18 here.

Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby fjccommish on Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:48 pm

"Man, now, defense is HARD here in MyLeague..."

No, it's just that you aren't taking advantage of the fatal flaw.

All these settings you mention don't change the basic problem with defense. Anyone, any player, can get to the basket every time.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Daex on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:17 am

Dee4Three wrote:...
the defense in this game is absolutely horrible
...


Hi Dee. Some people are reporting "blow by" animation to be greatly improved with patch 7. I couldn't confirm for myself because it's not on PC yet, but I thought you'd like to know.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:22 pm

and the problem remains
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:08 am

sticky-fingers wrote:and the problem remains


I havnt had a chance to test it, but I figured they were not going to fix that this year.

They are busy boasting good review scores.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Uncle Drew on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:44 am

Dee4Three wrote:
sticky-fingers wrote:and the problem remains


I havnt had a chance to test it, but I figured they were not going to fix that this year.

They are busy boasting good review scores.


Really ?? All the reviews I've read weren't saying they knocked it out of the park with 18. In fact, one review says they've taken a step back, and are allowing NBA Live to close the gap.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:16 am

Uncle Drew wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
sticky-fingers wrote:and the problem remains


I havnt had a chance to test it, but I figured they were not going to fix that this year.

They are busy boasting good review scores.


Really ?? All the reviews I've read weren't saying they knocked it out of the park with 18. In fact, one review says they've taken a step back, and are allowing NBA Live to close the gap.


Have you gone on metacritic? The average reviewer score is 8.0, the average user score is 1.6.

Do you follow them on Facebook? In light of almost every single comment (thousands) of people being pissed about the game, it's a constant barrage of "look how great we are" posts and constant posts about reviews they have gotten (blah blah rated 2K18 a 9 out of 10, the most realistic basketball experience to date blah blah).

It's the ultimate slap in the face to those users who rate this game under a 2, the people by the thousands that rip the game for bad layup mechanics, the VC grab, and other gameplay issues.

I have not read one "professional review" that actually calls the game out for its real flaws. I've seen VC talked about, but it's a quick brush by. I have read nothing about the skating of the players, the dead atmosphere and poor unrealistic lighting, seen nothing really in those reviews about the poor layup mechanics, nor the worst 1 on 1 defense in 2K history.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:12 am

I've seen some reviews that acknowledge gameplay issues, but most of them - especially the ones that have awarded scores of 8s and 9s - tend to read more like promotional breakdowns of all the features, rather than truly reviewing the product and properly identifying the good and the bad. A lot of problems are skimmed over, or not even mentioned. As Dee said, those are the reviews that the social media accounts are happily touting.

Fair enough, of course. No one is going to promote or celebrate a bad review, after all. But given the backlash and general sense of dissatisfaction, it comes across as tone-deaf at best, smug at worst.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:54 am

Yeah, most of reviews look like a promotional article.
2K18 dont deserve a score of 8 or 9, but neither 1.6
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:16 am

Well, Game Informer have named it as Sports Game of the Year for the second year running. I guess it speaks to the lack of options in that regard, but still.

As for the 1.6 scores, I'd agree that maybe they're a bit too harsh overall, and I'd probably rate the game higher (indeed I did, in the topic asking how we'd all rate NBA 2K18). At the same time though, for anyone who feels the experience has been completely ruined by a combination of the flaws, grinding, and VC gouging...well, a really low score is a fair call. Too often we rely on a four or five point scale to numerically rate video games, and if you utterly hate a game, it seems silly to still rate it a 5 or 6.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:43 pm

About rating, why no more reviews on NLSC ? :oops:
The last 2K review is for 2K13.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 pm

Since I started co-hosting the NLSC Podcast, I've usually given my initial review and ongoing thoughts about the latest releases there, in audio format. I've intended to do some written reviews again the past couple of years, but they've been pushed back with the other content I do, and it ends up being too late.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:16 am

sticky-fingers wrote:About rating, why no more reviews on NLSC ? :oops:
The last 2K review is for 2K13.


I actually entertained doing in depth video reviews for my youtube channel. 2017 was a nightmare of sorts for me, so it fell off. I may start them when 2K19 and Live 19 are released.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:54 am

I'm sorry Andrew, i don't use to listen podcast (here and everywhere) :oops:
I'll check your channel Dee.

In fact, a review of theses 2 games is an annual work in background.
There's the release, the biggest part of the work, the first impressions, the comparison between the game and editor's promises.
After the releases, there's also the patches ; 2K showed us they could break a game few weeks after a good release (2K16/2K17).
At this point on 2K18, 2K broke nothing since the release, but they also simply ignore the subject of this thread and the problem of 1on1 on ball defense.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby JWL3 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:18 am

Dee, I saw this youtube video and immediately thought about your post about the hip blowby. Let me know if this fixes your problem. I'm going to try it tonight in my online games and hope it makes me a better defender. I didn't even realize there were so many defensive options on and off ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjyw4hsYago


On-Ball Defense:

Intense-D: Press and hold LT when in front of dribbler.
Crowd the Dribbler: Press and hold LT when near the dribbler.
Fast Shuffle: Press and hold LT + RT, move Left Stick in any direction.
Hands Up Defense: Move and hold Right Stick in any direction.
Shot Contest: Move and hold Right Stick in any direction when near shooter (during shot).
Vertical Contest: Move and hold Left Stick away from the shooter and press Y.
Swat Block: Hold RT and press Y.
Take Charge: Press and hold B.
Flop: While in take charge, release B, press B.
Double Team: Press and hold LB.
Icon Double Team: Press LB, press and hold the action button of desired double teamer.

Off-Ball Defense:

Bump: Hold LT while impeding the path of the offensive player.
Chuck: (while standing) LT + Right Stick flick towards offensive player.
Grab: (while defender is running) Left Stick + Right Stick flick towards offensive player.
Post Up/Ball Denial: Hold LT when near opponent (based on distance to basket).
Deny Hands Out: Right Stick in any direction.
Ball Pressure: Right Stick press towards ball handler.
Push: LT + Left Stick into defender (when posted off-ball).
Deny/Front Post: LT + Right Stick left / right (when posted off-ball).
Pull Chair in Post: Flick Right Stick in same direction as offensive player (when posted off-ball).
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:54 am

JWL3 wrote:Dee, I saw this youtube video and immediately thought about your post about the hip blowby. Let me know if this fixes your problem. I'm going to try it tonight in my online games and hope it makes me a better defender. I didn't even realize there were so many defensive options on and off ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjyw4hsYago


On-Ball Defense:

Intense-D: Press and hold LT when in front of dribbler.
Crowd the Dribbler: Press and hold LT when near the dribbler.
Fast Shuffle: Press and hold LT + RT, move Left Stick in any direction.
Hands Up Defense: Move and hold Right Stick in any direction.
Shot Contest: Move and hold Right Stick in any direction when near shooter (during shot).
Vertical Contest: Move and hold Left Stick away from the shooter and press Y.
Swat Block: Hold RT and press Y.
Take Charge: Press and hold B.
Flop: While in take charge, release B, press B.
Double Team: Press and hold LB.
Icon Double Team: Press LB, press and hold the action button of desired double teamer.

Off-Ball Defense:

Bump: Hold LT while impeding the path of the offensive player.
Chuck: (while standing) LT + Right Stick flick towards offensive player.
Grab: (while defender is running) Left Stick + Right Stick flick towards offensive player.
Post Up/Ball Denial: Hold LT when near opponent (based on distance to basket).
Deny Hands Out: Right Stick in any direction.
Ball Pressure: Right Stick press towards ball handler.
Push: LT + Left Stick into defender (when posted off-ball).
Deny/Front Post: LT + Right Stick left / right (when posted off-ball).
Pull Chair in Post: Flick Right Stick in same direction as offensive player (when posted off-ball).


This is great and all, and I appreciate you thinking of this thread.

But this does nothing to curve how easy it is to blow by the CPU. These are options for you to improve your defense individually.

The contest is, that any time you want to blow by a CPU player, you can. And, I can guarantee that the hip animation is still triggered quite easy on a human even with the buttons being used that you mentioned.

But again, this does nothing to help the AI one on one defense.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby JWL3 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:08 am

True, it doesn't help the AI play better defense. What you experience on offense is very true when playing against another human also: you can blow past them quite easily just by turboing. Many times, I've had opposing players blow by me (with me in good defensive position) with me helpless to stop them. This tip, if it works, will at least allow me to defend against it.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:50 am

JWL3 wrote:True, it doesn't help the AI play better defense. What you experience on offense is very true when playing against another human also: you can blow past them quite easily just by turboing. Many times, I've had opposing players blow by me (with me in good defensive position) with me helpless to stop them. This tip, if it works, will at least allow me to defend against it.


Thanks for looking out, though.

I'm really hoping that 2K19 is better all around. All the promises we received about smarter AI, better defense, etc... It was all lies.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sanmarco on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:17 pm

Shooting is an anomaly, too.
It's like playing obstacle-windmill-golf.

Maybe that's why slashing to the rim is chicken grenade.
So that when all else fails, just jack up the turbo.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:30 pm

sanmarco wrote:Shooting is an anomaly, too.
It's like playing obstacle-windmill-golf.

Maybe that's why slashing to the rim is chicken grenade.
So that when all else fails, just jack up the turbo.


I've mentioned before that the shooting feels off in NBA 2K18. The jump shot mechanics don't feel right, releases don't feel right. And, to make matters worse.... the ball physics make missed shots off the rim look bad.

Driving by anybody, with anybody, whenever you want? Faulty shooting mechanics? Skating? Unrealistic ball physics? Terrible lighting and atmosphere? Body steals and body blocks? Speed breaks for no reason?

No thanks. I'll wait for 2K19.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sanmarco on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:22 am

Dee4Three wrote:Driving by anybody, with anybody, whenever you want? Faulty shooting mechanics? Skating? Unrealistic ball physics? Terrible lighting and atmosphere? Body steals and body blocks? Speed breaks for no reason?

No thanks. I'll wait for 2K19.


Hyped up statement from Aug of last year: (https://www.operationsports.com/nba-2k1 ... -changing/)

"On the defensive end of the floor there were a ton of improvements as well. The biggest thing for a lot of our users was the dribble drive game..

It feels really good now to get your defender leaning one way, attacking his drag foot, and seeing your ball handler quickly swim by the defender without getting snatched into a heavy bump animation..

..but for the most part, you’ll see a lot of “hip riding” this year compared to the knockbacks and dribbler stuns from the past."


Yours truly,
– Mike Wang (@Beluba), NBA 2K Gameplay Director
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:57 am

While is words were promising, the mechanics didn't work out that way. It made it so you can get by anybody with anybody, making elite defenders irrelevant, and just overall making all the players blend in together.

The defense overall in the game is still broken, but the one on one defense is downright unacceptable.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby PeacemanNOT on Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:22 am

Again, catering towards online as the characters playing aren't based off real people. That's really what will be 2K's demise... I remember when they were pushing the limits for simulation basketball games. Every year it seems to be getting worse as they push more and more for a E-Sports ready game. Shit don't they already have a E-Sports league in the works?

As bad as 2K18 regressed, I could never go back to 2K17 because of the graphics. I've been looking back at some gameplay videos of 2K17 and I often wonder how I even found it acceptable. Apart from the stadium lighting and oversized heads in 2K18, I find it a lot better. Maybe that's why I prefer it over 2K17.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:29 am

PeacemanNOT wrote:Again, catering towards online as the characters playing aren't based off real people. That's really what will be 2K's demise... I remember when they were pushing the limits for simulation basketball games. Every year it seems to be getting worse as they push more and more for a E-Sports ready game. Shit don't they already have a E-Sports league in the works?

As bad as 2K18 regressed, I could never go back to 2K17 because of the graphics. I've been looking back at some gameplay videos of 2K17 and I often wonder how I even found it acceptable. Apart from the stadium lighting and oversized heads in 2K18, I find it a lot better. Maybe that's why I prefer it over 2K17.


Agreed on E-Sports, they are focused on all the wrong things.

And yeah, I think you have different views on graphics. And by the way, totally get that. It's about preferences, also that's your target for modding. You do a damn good job of modding the art aspects of the games.

I just feel like the 2K engineers/production have a disconnect with how the game is actually played. Certain things they added/worked on, and the items they neglected, it what makes me think that.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:24 am

The direction of the game is something I talked about earlier this week in the Monday Tip-Off. There's reason to be concerned there, if you favour the traditional experience.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby lurumagno on Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:47 am

sticky-fingers wrote:I dont play in MyGM, but in MyLeague, you can change side.

If you want to stay on mygm, and if there's no way to change side ingame, you have to use cheat engine.
i dont make a table, but i'm pretty sure it can be fix with CE ; i think you have to set the values for local and for the visiting team.



Do you know the code for cheat engine?!?!
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:31 am

2K should learn for what happened to Konami on Soccer games, and EA on NBA games.
Theses 2 companies dominated their market, and suddenly - and for years - they have been overtaken by another company.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Lagoa on Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:35 am

Hey guys, after last updates + rosters, IMO CPU defense upgrade and make more smarts decisions.

Here, CPU make zone defense vs LeBron and sagoff... This never happend with old rosters/updates. Its not perfect, i can abuse with LeBron.....buit it´s LeBron.... i cant abuse anymore with normal players.

Anyways, i need to post my HARD sliders here. For PC, u can searching by LAGOA on 2k share. (use 2.0 version) its the last and its VERY HARD! :twisted:
Sorry my Bad English
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby hova- on Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:41 am

I tried 1000 different slider sets and while it is possible to improve defense, the AI is still not very good.

I am back after two months of not playing and I am pretty fed up after just a few days since I am always forced to change sliders and edit roster and never come to full enjoyment with the game.

Now they have added ingame advertising for their VC !? I am so angry. This kills the realism of the game and they give a **** about it. They are just making $$$$$ :x :x :x
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:30 am

I havnt seen the in game advertising for VC, that has to be frustrating.

In regards to the defense, it's seems to be all a part of the new motion system, so it won't be fixed in patches or with sliders. It's part of that whole system.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby jwin on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:48 am

dee, i was trying this out
http://www.moddingway.com/file/227239.html
by michaelvlutz to see how it plays and it got me thinking maybe he can find something in the animations.iff that could make the defense hug onto drives more or close off the lane. it's a long shot but i've seen him post around here before so could be worth a try
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:05 am

Dee4Three wrote:Couple things here.
The comment "without cheating it" means that you are playing the game to allow the CPU to beat you and not using your strengths on the court. By saying that, you are saying that even though you know you can run by the computer at any time with no moves, you won't do it and because of that the CPU is harder? Think about that for a second. That means that the game you played isn't even real, it's not a real competition. How is that fun at all? We are supposed to adjust to the CPU to win, we are supposed to have strategy to win, you are telling me that in a 2017 sports simulation that the AI is so incompetent and flat out horrible that we have to let the CPU compete and win? Let that sink in for a moment.

I can beat NES Contra without dying, maybe I should walk into some bullets to make the game more of a challenge. Or maybe I should jump into a couple holes. Actually, maybe I'll just not use the S (spread gun) in the game and just play the whole game with the Machine Gun, that way I die more and it's more of a challenge.

In regards to the help defense, so the on ball defense is still complete trash. Meaning that there is no difference with me getting by my guy with John Wall or Trevor Booker, and it doesn't matter if I'm driving on Leonard or Novak. So essentially... player defensive ratings are fluff, they are for show, they don't matter, and offensive players dribbling abilities etc don't matter.

Why the hell would I want to play a broken game like that? Also, I havn't tried the above mentioned steps, but I have tried all the other ones people said would work and they absolutely did not.

The skating in this game is also a complete killer, it's like they are playing on ice with tennis shoes. Put the game in slow motion and go close up on the players feet, watch how every step they are sliding all over the floor. It looks and feels ridiculous.

The AI in this game absolutely stinks.

The CPU offense is so bad, and is ridiculously easy to stop with icon switching. Maybe I should just not use Icon switching, that way the CPU gets easier shots and has a better chance of beating me. Maybe I should not push my joystick towards the offensive player to make him miss, maybe if I did that the CPU offense would not shoot 3 for 19 to begin a game, only to be blown out by me only running towards the hoop with no moves while shooting like 70% from the floor.

I went back and played NBA 2K9, 2K10, etc. And the AI absolutely would destroy you if you didn't play smart. I lost a regular season game against the Cavs using the Celtics on 2K10 by 30 because I wasn't playing smart. They literally were picking apart my defense, taking smart shots, pummeling me. Offensively, I failed because I wasn't running much of anything, I was trying to play iso ball all the time, I was exploited because of it.

Seven years later, and the AI plays like absolute trash, and it also ruins the user vs user experience. And, they brought back skating to make the game feel even more unrealistic.

Maybe I should ignore the fact that this game boasts itself as a simulation, but the gameplay itself is the furthest thing from it, and the big heads all over the league, bodies that do not look like athletes, the worst most unrealistic atmosphere in 2K history, the lighting that doesn't resemble a real broadcast at all, ratings/tendencies and signatures that are a lot of times just flat out unrealistic and inaccurate (that don't even impact the gameplay anyway because the gameplay is so bad).

All the while maybe I should just ignore the fact that 2K boasts ratings that they mostly paid for, brag about sales and "being the best", meanwhile milking the consumer base for every penny they have using a VC system that basically forces people to pay to compete, otherwise they will suck and not be socially accepted in the game.

In regards to Operation Sports, they look at that one not only because it's the most popular site, but because it's a controlled site. People have to tip toe around real issues, you can't even create new topics as a new member. 2K loves a controlled atmosphere to pull feedback from, because that way it's more positive. It's not a real measure of the game.

In regards to Leftos and JaoSming, I am guessing they have very little control over how they respond on here, or if they do. They probably are not allowed to comment on these things, and that's not their fault, I don't hold that against them. The gameplay itself probably has nothing to do with them either. I actually feel bad in a sense for someone like JaoSming who probably has opinions he wants to express on here, but has to stay silent because he works for 2K. I don't blame him for choosing the route of working for the company, if I was ever to receive an offer to do so in a capacity (like that would ever happen) it would probably be a dream come true. Basketball and basketball video games (and playing) is the biggest part of my life. I just had a league game on Thursday and just being out there playing the game I love was the greatest feeling ever, it is whenever I play.

This game does not feel like real basketball to me at all, it feels like an arcade game, a poorly executed one.]


Completely agree. I stopped playing Live around LIVE 08 and started playing NBA 2K9 when it came to the PC and never looked back until this year, that's sad, when I think about all the fun times I had with 2k. I remember playing NBA 2K11 with Spurs and man it was a joy. It was so challenging, I remember i was in high school and I caught myself thinking about it during the day, on the bus, in the school etc. It was the Western Conference semi finals or finals, not really sure now, against the Nuggets. I was thinking about how will I approach the game, I was trying to think of a strategy that would get me a win, because it was damn hard, even with a really great team like Spurs, I remember they had a rookie that was really giving me problems. I ended up winning and got to the finals against the Celtics, epic series that ended in game 7 with Duncan hitting a contested mid range game winner. And man I was really happy because it took hard work to do so, I felt great and I felt like i achieved something. This was the most fun i had with a 2K game.

Let's forward to NBA 2K18, while I was amazed the first time I tried the game, it felt really smooth and like there was more freedom in the movement and like the court was more open, the more I played it, the less I liked it. Now I think it's the worst CPU I've ever encountered in a 2k game. I remember playing older 2ks on all star, or superstar if i wanted an extreme challenge, hall of fame was like, unbeatable. But now, hall of fame is too easy for me, what a shame, and I don't know what's worse, CPU's 1 on 1 defense or Pick and roll defense, I can easily abuse both, tried many things, it's just too easy. Not really a challenge, ergo, not fun. I completely agree with Dee about almost everything he said, this is not fun. I am playing with the Spurs, again, and CPU can't defend pick and roll, I will either end up scoring a layup with parker, or with Gasol shooting an open shot.

I bought Live around a week ago or so when it was on sale, and I would advise people to try it, it has flaws, but it's challenging, I am playing it on All star because Superstar is too hard for me, defense is much much better, whether we are talking about the pick and roll defense or 1 on 1 defense. But as a franchise guy I can't really play because Live's franchise mode is terrible. I turn it on from time to time and just play a game and i tend to enjoy it.

And If Live 19 comes out this fall, there is going to be LIVE 19 right? This will be the first time in 10 years that I will not automatically buy 2k on it's release date. I had my share of frustrations with 2k17, and now with 2k18, kind of sad, but that's where it took me. I think 2k won't really care, I don't think they'll lose their reputation as a undisupted great basketball and sports game soon and many many people will buy it without even thinking about it and spend money on VC.

And yeah, my younger brother also plays 2k18, like, once a week, and he plays it on default superstar, he's guy who doesn't watch basketball, doesn't play it, just likes it as a sport, and I see when he's playing his myleague with the Mvs and he just wins because he doesn't think hm I shouldn't run through this guy because it's not realistic, he just plays the game the same way we play Call of Duty of Assassin't Creed, to beat the game, and he does it, a guy who doesn't really know basketball, on superstar, with Mavericks...

I'll post something like this on OS, we'll see how will people react
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:06 am

Good luck. From what I heard, somebody tried to post my defense videos and they were taken down (someone told me on PM here). Also, somebody else over there was overly critical about the art, and they messaged him and gave him a warning stating that he should appreciate the game from what it is because 2K worked hard on it.

So as much as I appreciate your effort, that site is heavily controlled and kind of a joke when it comes to feedback. The moderators should be ashamed of themselves.

Last night, even with the updated patch and other suggestions on here, I fired up a game because I was bored. I was OKC vs the Warriors. Jordan Bell was actually starting on Adams, I decided to test out the defense again.

From the perimeter, I scored 9 out of 10 times just running towards the hoop from the perimeter with Steven Adams. 9 out of 10 the only reason it wasn't 10 out of 10 was because I misses an easy one. Steven Adams burst with the guy on his side was unreal. It's just not fun.

The CPU offense AI is also abysmal, I didn't see you mention that really, but I am sure you notice it.

I'm sick of the politics around 2K, the fake/favoring reviews that don't actually talk about the real issues with the game, the boasting those reviews on there Facebook page and twitter, it just really rubs me the wrong way.

And, I think the comment about them always being looked at as a great basketball game... go look at the user score and reviewer score on metacritic. A large portion of people do not think that way, but it doesn't stop 2K fans other reviewers making it look like they can't do any wrong.

2K11 is pure gold. I love it. You can tell they worked hard on making a realistic basketball simulation with that one, they focused so much on the gameplay.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby StyxTx on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:48 am

I agree about Operation Sports. I was banned from there years ago because I didn't just lay down and accept everything that was said and I said so. Basically, you have to kiss ass on there.If you don't you're a troll, according to them.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby m29a on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:21 pm

I won't act like it's not easy to drive to the basket. It is. And it should be harder, especially when going against an elite defender. However I gotta ask you guys, I can't read all the posts here, but do you just want like 90% brick walling back, to the point where you almost always have to pick n roll to drive most of the time? I hope they can find a happy medium between the two. I do want elite defenders to have more of an impact. I wouldn't say it's broken though, the 2K devs knew it would be like this, in the dev blogs they said a few times "brick walling is gone". It was due to complaints for the last couple years.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:27 pm

m29a wrote:I won't act like it's not easy to drive to the basket. It is. And it should be harder, especially when going against an elite defender. However I gotta ask you guys, I can't read all the posts here, but do you just want like 90% brick walling back, to the point where you almost always have to pick n roll to drive most of the time? I hope they can find a happy medium between the two. I do want elite defenders to have more of an impact. I wouldn't say it's broken though, the 2K devs knew it would be like this, in the dev blogs they said a few times "brick walling is gone". It was due to complaints for the last couple years.


Yes, we want a happy medium. I recommend taking the time to go through the posts on this thread, and watch the videos I've posted. This game gives no challenge whatsoever because of the broken defense, and rather dumb AI on offense.

The reason this thread has so many posts is because not only did I have a lot of people agree with me, I also had people strongly contest me, or passive/aggressive contest me.

Literally defensive attributes/tendencies don't matter, especially when I could score 100 and win, with just straight line drives to the hoop with Steven Adams from the perimieter. It takes all the fun out of the game, why do moves when you can just run by the guy? For show? To force the game to be harder? To pretend simulation and ruin the competitor aspect?

I consider the issue absolutely game breaking, combine that with the dead atmosphere and lighting, and the skating all over the floor, and you have a game that I won't play. It's just not fun.

Brick wall defense on 2K17 was a bit much, if you have 2K15 installed or on console, fire that up. That in my opinion is the happy medium between 2K18 and 2K17. Also, in 2K17, atleast I could get by my guy by using an elite dribbler who also had good acceleration, it mattered in that game. It was important to use your best ball handler/slasher in order to get the best result.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:36 pm

It feels like an over-correction to the Brick Wall problems in previous games, no doubt. I'd agree that the desirable experience is somewhere between the two approaches we've seen.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby diamenz on Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:43 pm

more balance, ya. as well as quicker interior rotating for defensively adept bigs.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:22 am

I did a short compilation of CPU's most recent pick and roll defense in my recent game, that's where we got through these years of developing. I should also mention that I put pick and roll defense IQ, on ball defense iq and shot contest at 99 for all players.

This is on hall of fame

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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:08 am

TheRocket wrote:I did a short compilation of CPU's most recent pick and roll defense in my recent game, that's where we got through these years of developing. I should also mention that I put pick and roll defense IQ, on ball defense iq and shot contest at 99 for all players.

This is on hall of fame

https://streamable.com/10qyu


This was a problem in 2K17, and it's no better in 2K18 (I think it's worse). Reason being, the help defense in 2K18 is worse. Look at the defender in the paint actually move away as the ball handler is heading towards the hoop.

Also, look at the skating as you are making your way into the paint, it looks so ridiculous.

I tried to explain the sliders/ratings thing to others on here, I've done the same things you have. I've put them all the way up, it doesn't change anything. They should know that, but I think part of the problem is a lot of the people who defend this game will do so blindly, or with heavy bias. You can show video after video, and still many will make excuses for the game, or they will say "well it's not as bad as ____".

The gameplay is broken this year. It's why I won't play the game anymore.
Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:26 am

Dee4Three wrote:
TheRocket wrote:I did a short compilation of CPU's most recent pick and roll defense in my recent game, that's where we got through these years of developing. I should also mention that I put pick and roll defense IQ, on ball defense iq and shot contest at 99 for all players.

This is on hall of fame

https://streamable.com/10qyu


This was a problem in 2K17, and it's no better in 2K18 (I think it's worse). Reason being, the help defense in 2K18 is worse. Look at the defender in the paint actually move away as the ball handler is heading towards the hoop.

Also, look at the skating as you are making your way into the paint, it looks so ridiculous.

The game has so many major gameplay flaws.


Yeah, can't play it as it is right now and I doubt that it is going to be fixed. Will go back to 2k14 or play some more Live 18.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Jeffx on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:27 am

Damn, I must really suck if you cats find this game easy on the higher levels (I play on PS3-All-Star).

Player skating is the worst part - it's nearly impossible to stay with your man, especially guards.

Defensive AI is horrible - my defenders leave 3-point shooters wide open to guard the paint, they get stuck to each other thanks to constant screens by the CPU, or they'll slide past their man.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:37 am

Jeffx wrote:Damn, I must really suck if you cats find this game easy on the higher levels (I play on PS3-All-Star).

Player skating is the worst part - it's nearly impossible to stay with your man, especially guards.

Defensive AI is horrible - my defenders leave 3-point shooters wide open to guard the paint, they get stuck to each other thanks to constant screens by the CPU, or they'll slide past their man.


Hi Jeff,

This thread is completely unrelated to the last gen versions of 2K18. The games play off of a completely different engine, your gameplay is still on the NBA 2K14 last gen engine. I've watched countless gameplay videos of 2K18 for PS3 and Xbox 360.

My videos depict this gens version that I am talking about. However, if you have gripes about the PS3 version, you could always start a thread. I'm sure some other people out there are still on last gen.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:05 pm

If someone told me a year ago that I would enjoy LIVE 18 more than 2k18 I would've laughed in his face. But it is how it is right now, couple of days ago I played what I think was my last game in 2k18. After I scored an uncontested layup for the third time in a row after the pick and roll with no help defense and defensive rotation whatsoever I just quit the game. While Live has its problems I don't get nearly frustrated as I get playing 2k18. Right now it's so crazy that I am looking forward to Live 19 and how is it going to look like more than 2k19 as I am afraid they will not be able to fix all the crap from 2k18 in one, well less than 1 year.

Dee i saw your post how you could make a 10 minute video on gamebreaking stuff in 2k18 and I totally get you, can't believe I was defending this game just couple of months ago.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:06 am

TheRocket wrote:If someone told me a year ago that I would enjoy LIVE 18 more than 2k18 I would've laughed in his face. But it is how it is right now, couple of days ago I played what I think was my last game in 2k18. After I scored an uncontested layup for the third time in a row after the pick and roll with no help defense and defensive rotation whatsoever I just quit the game. While Live has its problems I don't get nearly frustrated as I get playing 2k18. Right now it's so crazy that I am looking forward to Live 19 and how is it going to look like more than 2k19 as I am afraid they will not be able to fix all the crap from 2k18 in one, well less than 1 year.

Dee i saw your post how you could make a 10 minute video on gamebreaking stuff in 2k18 and I totally get you, can't believe I was defending this game just couple of months ago.


I still plan on making that video, just havnt had time.

And I think the defending of it is for a few reasons, not saying you fall into these categories, but it seems to be the trend:

1. Cognitive Dissonance: cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. The occurrence of cognitive dissonance is a consequence of a person performing an action that contradicts personal beliefs, ideals, and values; and also occurs when confronted with new information that contradicts said beliefs, ideals, and values. In A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency in order to mentally function in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance.

- A lot of people are set in auto-pilot when it comes to supporting a said game, they even become apologists for the most outrageous obvious issues with said product. The problem is, it takes almost bludgeoning that person to death with evidence of the issues for them to truly acknowledge them. And even that doesn't work a lot of times, a blind eye is turned and they will just leave the conversation frustrated and still not believing what was put right in front of them.

2. Wanting it to be good so bad:

- People will latch onto a title/brand/series, and literally want the product to do so well, that they ignore the actual issues and feedback related to the product. They will jump in head first, and even if things frustrate them, they will stay silent about it because they believe that the company "Obviously knows what they are doing". A lot of times people do this because it's the cool thing to do, like... who doesn't play 2k? All the persons buds are playing 2K, the kids parents are probably playing 2K, the dog would be playing it if they could, it's a hip trend. People will talk it up, talk about epic games, talk about "Duuuuuddeee, I'm gonna sooo crush you with LeBron using the 06-07 Cavs, dudddde", while completely ignoring all of the actual (And sometimes gamebreaking) issues that the game truly has, they will also ignore the big heads flooding the league and the other graphical anomalies. Online play is the other thing, you don't want to be the dude who can't play with your buddies... I mean... ALL your buddies are in MyPark, they are playing online. You really have no choice but to jump in.

3. Defending at all costs by insulting prior versions or other games:

- "I'd rather be able to get by my guy every time than have brick wall defense like 2K17", "Dude, you can do the same thing with the P&R on 2K17" somehow justifying the issue with 2K18 because the user believes 2K17 was just as bad, or worse. People literally saying "If you don't like it, don't buy it and go play Live". This is ridiculous, and just another way to defend a title that the person is passionate about, making excuses for the actual issues (Again, even if it's thrown right in front of them) even for the bigger gameplay issues. Just because a prior title has issues, doesn't mean that the new title gets a free pass for having a bunch of issues of it's own. That feedback HAS to get to the developers of said game, it's a must. If you can get by your guy almost 100% of the time on anybody, with anybody, that is a gamebreaking issue that should be discussed, it has to get back to the developers. It doesn't matter one bit if it's "Better" than another issue, but still bad. That makes no sense whatsoever.


I'm going to work on that video at some point soon.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby StyxTx on Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:29 am

Dee4Three wrote:

2. Wanting it to be good so bad:

- People will latch onto a title/brand/series, and literally want the product to do so well, that they ignore the actual issues and feedback related to the product. They will jump in head first, and even if things frustrate them, they will stay silent about it because they believe that the company "Obviously knows what they are doing". A lot of times people do this because it's the cool thing to do, like... who doesn't play 2k? All the persons buds are playing 2K, the kids parents are probably playing 2K, the dog would be playing it if they could, it's a hip trend. People will talk it up, talk about epic games, talk about "Duuuuuddeee, I'm gonna sooo crush you with LeBron using the 06-07 Cavs, dudddde", while completely ignoring all of the actual (And sometimes gamebreaking) issues that the game truly has, they will also ignore the big heads flooding the league and the other graphical anomalies. Online play is the other thing, you don't want to be the dude who can't play with your buddies... I mean... ALL your buddies are in MyPark, they are playing online. You really have no choice but to jump in.






I can tell you from many experiences in my life that just because someone is called a "professional" at what they do does not mean they know what they are doing.

To think the game developers must know what they are doing is what most people believe, but from what I've seen over the years, they fall into that "professionals who don't know what they're doing" category.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby poke on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:40 am

I have some pretty decent sliders. If you're interested let me know. I'll post some gameplay footage too.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:45 am

poke wrote:I have some pretty decent sliders. If you're interested let me know. I'll post some gameplay footage too.


I appreciate the offer. But, I've tried most every slider set (Including jacking up the CPU defensive sliders to 100). I've messed with ACE, with everything really. Nothing stops the blow by defense, nothing stops the skating (Obviously), nothing stops the horrible help defense. It's an engine flaw, it won't be fixed for 2K18.

Again, thanks for the offer. But I'm done with 2K18. And, I saw you made a post in the 2K17 section about trying to get the look from 2K17 into 2k18 (RKJ Global), it won't happen. They went with a completely different look and lighting for 2K18. 2K17 look can't be achieved. People even tried to use 2K17 lighting in 2K18, I tried it and it doesn't resemble 2K17 to me at all.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:14 pm

I'm in the same boat, I actually realized that there is no point in messing with sliders, at least for me, because every change makes the game easier so it was somewhat challenging only on Hall of Fame default. But nothing can really fix the defense that is really really terrible this year as Dee stated it as well and had to fight with a lot of people to prove it. I was among these people and I understand them because 2k was like a holy grail of basketball gaming that just found the way to make a great game over and over again and got more and more fans so it's kind of hard for people to give up on it and they restrict themselves when playing it, try to force themselves enjoy it etc.

This 2k is the one I had most frustration and least fun with. I started playing 2k with 2k9 and I have never really stopped playing the current version of the game until the next one came out until this year, that's how bad it is. I could talk and talk about its issues but there are so many and I gave up on the game so I don't really feel like going over it again. At the moment I am playing Live 18 and have much more fun with it, and sliders actually work as intended, the game has been tuned throughout the year, unlike 2k that didn't fix almost any of the major issues. I am looking forward to Live 19 and I am really curious how is it going to look. I will try 2k19 when the demo comes out and if these gameplay issues are still there I am going with Live 19.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:21 am

TheRocket wrote:I'm in the same boat, I actually realized that there is no point in messing with sliders, at least for me, because every change makes the game easier so it was somewhat challenging only on Hall of Fame default. But nothing can really fix the defense that is really really terrible this year as Dee stated it as well and had to fight with a lot of people to prove it. I was among these people and I understand them because 2k was like a holy grail of basketball gaming that just found the way to make a great game over and over again and got more and more fans so it's kind of hard for people to give up on it and they restrict themselves when playing it, try to force themselves enjoy it etc.

This 2k is the one I had most frustration and least fun with. I started playing 2k with 2k9 and I have never really stopped playing the current version of the game until the next one came out until this year, that's how bad it is. I could talk and talk about its issues but there are so many and I gave up on the game so I don't really feel like going over it again. At the moment I am playing Live 18 and have much more fun with it, and sliders actually work as intended, the game has been tuned throughout the year, unlike 2k that didn't fix almost any of the major issues. I am looking forward to Live 19 and I am really curious how is it going to look. I will try 2k19 when the demo comes out and if these gameplay issues are still there I am going with Live 19.


Do you have any idea how excited I was for 2K18? I even did a preview video on my youtube channel when the demo came out. Some people act like I am just a "Hater", or bashing the game for the sake of bashing it, or that I'm somehow playing it wrong. No... these people obviously havn't checked out my youtube, where 99.9% of my videos are of NBA 2K games, including a plethora from 2K17. The amount of disappointment in 2K18 is monumental, I was and still am extremely frustrated by this release. Basketball video games are what my brothers and I do, it's our bonding. I have two brothers who are everything to me, and 2K days are everything. So you can imagine the disappointment I felt for them when 2K18 was released. Luckily, they both really love 2K17 and some of the past gen 2Ks, so we still have a blast. I've been playing basketball video games since the early 90's, and I've never been this frustrated or disappointed in a release. Granted, NBA Live 07 for last gen was really bad, but I was playing 2K7 at the time. I was also accused of blindly supporting 2K in the NBA Live 18 section because I stated that the Live animations were to stiff, and that I preferred the NBA 2K17 animations because they were less robotic. I've never blindly defended 2K, I've just been honest about each game. Not everybody is biased, certain people can look at both titles for what they are. If I was blindly siding with 2K, I would be praising NBA 2K18, but its just not a good basketball game. My Youtube followers have stalled as well, because I refuse to post gameplay videos of 2K18, I'm actually proud of that.... I'd rather stick to reality.

This is the first 2K I can remember where I didn't consider it playable because of all the game breaking issues. Hoping 2K sees the skating as a problem and fixes it, its straight sloppy. I hope they pay extra attention to the one on one defense, and help defense... Skating and defense in my opinion should be the #1 priority.

Outside of that, make the game more alive, like NBA action. The game feels dull and dead.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:29 am

Sadly, "hater" has become an effective means of shutting down any and all criticism. Someone pointed out the flaws in something you really like and feel invested in? No need to counter those arguments or consider the thing you love may not be perfect; that person is just a hater! Someone calls you out on being a selfish jerk who treats people like garbage while expecting to be fawned over? Nah, the problem isn't with you; it's with those haters who are jealous, or just don't get you! It (unfortunately) works very well as a debate tactic because it shifts the discussion and makes you defend yourself against the accusation, instead of actually offering valid counterpoints to the ones you've made.

Another thing that's specific to deflecting NBA 2K criticism is the criticism of NBA Live ("That's bad, but NBA Live is worse!", "Sure, but what about NBA Live's problems?", "What are you going to do? Play NBA Live?"). Even though NBA Live has made improvements (and quite a few people, myself included, have enjoyed NBA Live 18 despite it problems), there certainly are flaws that should - and have - been pointed out, and must be addressed moving forward. I don't think many gamers are in denial that there's still plenty of room for improvement. However, NBA Live's issues are irrelevant when discussing NBA 2K's problems, just as those problems are irrelevant when discussing NBA Live's issues. The flaws of one game do not justify the flaws in another. That another game has problems or isn't as good doesn't excuse a game falling short of the expectations and standard it has set for itself.

Apart from any fondness we develop for a series, along with the desire to justify the money and time we've spent with it, I think as gamers we also get used to making the best of the situation. Whether it's accepting a game has flaws and trying to find enjoyment anyway, messing around with sliders, roster tweaks, and so forth, or imposing certain restrictions on ourselves, a lot of us make an effort. There comes a point where that's very difficult to do.
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