The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

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Re: The defense is broken - NEW VIDEO WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:59 am

Something I also want to point out.

I'm getting a few people telling me that I should take my concerns to JaoSming, and Leftos, etc. If you guys don't think they see this thread, you are crazy. This is still home to them, I think it always will be. You can bet they lurk and see what we are saying, and you can bet that if they believe its a valid concern that they will bring it to the attention of those who can do something about it.

They looked at the threads on 2K17 and sometimes replied, and they look at these. Just because they don't comment as often, it doesn't mean they are not still around. I don't need to PM JaoSming with a link to this thread, I can guarantee you he has seen it and watched the videos.
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Re: The defense is broken - NEW VIDEO WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:03 am

I'm wondering if clipping and physics can be considered a noteworthy contributing factor here. That's one area of the game in particular where NBA 2K has surprisingly regressed the past couple of years, to the point where it sometimes feels last gen with the amount of clipping and skating, and lack of physicality and interaction outside of midair collisions. I think it's a side effect of the new motion engine and trying to eliminate the feeling of being stuck in mud with certain animations. The downside has been more clipping and skating, and less physicality.

I think part of the reason that players are able to brush off defenders so easily is because the physicality isn't there on the hip riding animations, and they're often able to clip through defenders to some extent. To that end, perhaps it's an over-correction of previous issues with brick wall defense, but it's obviously created a new problem in the process. If it is an issue with player physics, then unfortunately I'm not confident that it's something that can be effectively patched.
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Re: The defense is broken - NEW VIDEO WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:06 am

Andrew wrote:I'm wondering if clipping and physics can be considered a noteworthy contributing factor here. That's one area of the game in particular where NBA 2K has surprisingly regressed the past couple of years, to the point where it sometimes feels last gen with the amount of clipping and skating, and lack of physicality and interaction outside of midair collisions. I think it's a side effect of the new motion engine and trying to eliminate the feeling of being stuck in mud with certain animations. The downside has been more clipping and skating, and less physicality.

I think part of the reason that players are able to brush off defenders so easily is because the physicality isn't there on the hip riding animations, and they're often able to clip through defenders to some extent. To that end, perhaps it's an over-correction of previous issues with brick wall defense, but it's obviously created a new problem in the process. If it is an issue with player physics, then unfortunately I'm not confident that it's something that can be effectively patched.


I'm about to post a video with Shadys sliders. The body up sensitivity is at 100, as well as a slew of other sliders. The clipping is not the problem from what I can tell, as I can run around players easily as well. It's either through, or around... with ease.

I agree with you that I don't think it can be easily patched, I think this is the way the system works. And that is sad in my opinion.
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Re: The defense is broken - NEW VIDEO WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:13 am

Oh yeah, it's definitely not the only issue. I feel it probably contributes at times, as it does to several other issues (like swatting clean through the ball on steal attempts), but there's other problems afoot.

If it's a balancing issue, or something in the AI/gameplay that can be activated, we may be in luck. If it's the system/engine, it's probably going to be a "next year" matter.
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Re: The defense is broken - NEW VIDEO WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:19 am

Andrew wrote:Oh yeah, it's definitely not the only issue. I feel it probably contributes at times, as it does to several other issues (like swatting clean through the ball on steal attempts), but there's other problems afoot.

If it's a balancing issue, or something in the AI/gameplay that can be activated, we may be in luck. If it's the system/engine, it's probably going to be a "next year" matter.


The hands through the ball on swats was never worse than on 2K13, oh man was it bad. You would perfectly time blocks, and get posterized. You would look at the replay and go close up, and you did get the block... only your hand went through the ball and it didn't matter.
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Re: The defense is broken - NEW VIDEO WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:26 am

This is with ShadyMikes defensive sliders that he just posted. Now, I am posting this to show that I did try these sliders, and I wanted you folks to see the results. This isn't calling him out, as there was a SLIGHT improvement on interior defense, but nowhere near acceptable under any standards.

4 minute quarters, the whole game. Im using the Celtics vs the Warriors, every single shot attempt is a straight line drive (With the exception of 1 putback I attempted, woops).

Game Facts:

1. I win by 12 against the best team in the NBA in 4 minute quarters. It probably would have been an over 30 point blowout if I had played 12 minute quarters.
2. I shot 23/37 from the field, good for 63%. ALL on straight line drives to the hoop.
3. You will see me use many different Celtics on many different defenders. Watch the defense especially in the 4th quarter, where I am just running through and around Klay Thompson effortlessly to score.
4. Every single play is an iSO with the exception of one attempted putback.
5. Not one move was made, not one play was run (other than ISO), zero strategy.
6. I had 46 points in the paint. If this was 12 minute quarters, I could have had 138 points in the paint...... 138 points in the paint!!!
7. Many layups were missed right at the rim after I easily got by my guy and help didnt come. The FG% realistically should have been even higher.

This set has CPU with:

Body Up Sensitivity: 100
Driving Contact Dunk Frequency: 100
Inside Shot Contact Frequency: 100
Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff): 100
Layup Defense Strength (Release): 100
Help Defense Strength: 100
On-Ball Defense: 100
Blocking: 80
Defensive Awareness: 90
Defensive Rebounding: 80
Lateral Quickness: 70
Go for on ball steals: 100
Contest Shots: 100
Strength: 50 (User at 30)

So you guys are telling me, with these super extreme sliders... I can just run into the paint with no moves or no strategy, be on pace for about 138 pts in the paint (with 12 min quarters), and blowout the best team in the league? Do you see why I don't have any interest in this game at the moment? You cant get higher than 100 on those sliders people, thats as high as you can jack it up. So what you saw in that video might be the best you can get for defense.... thats the best you can probably do.

Shady, putting layup defense at 100 gave the Warriors a few blocks. But you know as well as I do that it's still game breaking, the fact that I can do this all game and blowout the best team in the NBA... its insane. Look at the sliders and how little they do (I want to say again, not your fault). I shot 70% in the Knicks vs Warriors game, and 63% here, all with straight line drives.

I am hoping that they do patch the game, that would be fantastic. Because anything is better than this. See how that 4th quarter went? You think I want anything to do with a game that I can just run around or through my guy and score the majority of the time? What fun is that? You want me to start a MyLeague with that ability? Do you guys want me to fake doing dribble moves for no reason just because they look cool? Want me to run plays I dont need to run? Its silly.

Do you see how the defense doesn't adjust ALL GAME. How no adjustment happens at all in the 4th quarter? This 2K is the furthest from a basketball sim on next gen, hands down.

It was stated that me playing like this is not the way they expect us to play... umm... Klay Thompson just letting me run by him with Marcus Smart whenever I want is not how I expect the GAME to play. The game needs to supply the resistance, it's not my fault that nobody can stay in front of anyone, or that help hardly ever comes. Somehow I am playing the wrong way? the game is playing the wrong way, the game allows this to happen. Have you watched my gameplay videos? I do play the right way when it's necessary, I move the ball, I post up, I set screens, etc. I don't need to do any of that in this game, I can shoot 63% on the best team in the league just running into the paint. See how crazy that was in the 4th quarter with those jacked up sliders? Do you see how boring and dull it is to know that I can literally just run into the paint on the best defenders in the league?

C'mon guys... lets be real here. It's totally broken. However, I want to give Shady props for doing his best to focus on the gameplay and find fixes, its tedious work. It's a lot of testing, a lot of playing, a lot of simulating, it's a lot of things. So, be glad we have him around.


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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Stildo33 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:40 am

I will test this out tomorrow. I have only been really "Driving" a lot with Kyrie and I kind of expected him to do that, but I know I was still getting some contact inside. He shouldn't be able to just march into the paint though. I've been running off screens, etc., but it is easier this year. I was so frustrated not being able to score off of drives, pull-ups, etc. with IT last year that I struggled to score 30/game with him....but could light it up with most others. Being 5'9" doesn't help haha.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Stildo33 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am

Well, the NBA doesn't allow hand checking anymore either.....maybe that's what 2K was going for. What frustrates me the most is the defense isn't broken when it comes to dunks. I couldn't tell you how many times Jaylen Brown has broken free and goes for layup even though his head is 9" above the rim.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 pm

Stildo33 wrote:Well, the NBA doesn't allow hand checking anymore either.....maybe that's what 2K was going for. What frustrates me the most is the defense isn't broken when it comes to dunks. I couldn't tell you how many times Jaylen Brown has broken free and goes for layup even though his head is 9" above the rim.


That means the dunking is broken, if he's not going for dunks when he's that high above the rim.

In regards to the defense, what they were going for failed because it was taken to the extreme. Also, some of it isn't even the hip riding, it's literally just running around or passed them. Did you actually watch those 4th quarter drives? The defender isn't even sliding his feet right, h3 has a 0% chance of keeping up, literally 0%. And that's with sliders jacked up to 100. That's not fun.

The game is out of control and all over the place. It doesn't feel like basketball at all.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Stildo33 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:22 pm

Yeah I watched the 4th qtr. That looked like a college team playing a jr high team - you just bullied in or past the defense. It was even anything close to that last year. Pretty much to do a spin drive or use a screen to get that open for dunks/layups. Kinda makes me want to go back to NBA 2K17 now lol.

Do the new player slider adjustments make a difference? I forget what they are called right now...I'll check in the morning and play with those too.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:36 pm

Stildo33 wrote:Yeah I watched the 4th qtr. That looked like a college team playing a jr high team - you just bullied in or past the defense. It was even anything close to that last year. Pretty much to do a spin drive or use a screen to get that open for dunks/layups. Kinda makes me want to go back to NBA 2K17 now lol.

Do the new player slider adjustments make a difference? I forget what they are called right now...I'll check in the morning and play with those too.


I've messed with them a bit, and I havn't found anything that works. Some people on here said they messed with players sliders I think.

I just think the system is broken in general.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby JWL3 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:33 pm

Dee4Three wrote:
Stildo33 wrote:Yeah I watched the 4th qtr. That looked like a college team playing a jr high team - you just bullied in or past the defense. It was even anything close to that last year. Pretty much to do a spin drive or use a screen to get that open for dunks/layups. Kinda makes me want to go back to NBA 2K17 now lol.

Do the new player slider adjustments make a difference? I forget what they are called right now...I'll check in the morning and play with those too.


I've messed with them a bit, and I havn't found anything that works. Some people on here said they messed with players sliders I think.

I just think the system is broken in general.



The perfect balance would be if 2K gets rid of the hip ride blow by BUT builds in a higher probability of cpu defenders falling for dribble moves/pump fakes/triple threat jab steps and also bigger cpu defender lag. Not sure this is just a small patch issue where they change a few number settings and multipliers. The blow by should only happen if you sense the defender is out of position and turbo past him, not every single time.

I'm abusing the hip ride animation in my drills to grind for badges. Without it, there is zero chance I could level up fast enough.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:48 pm

But how is that fun for ANYONE?

I just don't get it. How can someone see and feel how easy it is to just run to the hoop and score, and still get enjoyment out of the game? Watching gameplay videos where I see people doing dribble moves makes me cringe, because I know they don't have to do any of it, it's just cosmetic. They can have more success just running to the hoop and hitting the shoot button.

It's the definition of game breaking to me. Where no strategy is needed, ever. I could go 82-0 and sweep the playoffs with any sliders just running to the hoop 100% of the time.

It's the equivalent of a fighting game where you can just mash one button for an attack and win, no strategy, just mash that one button and win. No dodging, no combos, nothing needed.

It's a game killer.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:03 am

So I reached out on NBA 2Ks Facebook with my videos, and these are the type of responses I get from people:

Wes says:

"People like you ruin the game. Complain too much and they will make every player seem like Dennis Rodman"

Martyn says:

"You'd get laughed off the court if u actually played against real players and not AI"


Are people really this ridiculous? Are people so stuck in their own reality that they believe these comments are relevant to this issue? I ruin the game because I point out that we can score whenever we want, with whoever we want? And, I suck at the game against humans because clearly I am trying my hardest in those videos, it's not clear that I am showing a gameplay flaw?

What the hell is wrong with people?
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:39 am

#4 patch notes :

Fixed a dribbling issue that would cause escape crosses and hesitations to sometimes face sideways.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/nba-2k/n ... 470937267/
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:45 am

I don't think that will have anything to do with a fix for this issue. But you can try it out, I'm at work at the moment so I cannot.

When I say try it out, I mean do exactly what I am doing in the videos. Don't pull back, just run forward.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:55 am

It's not released yet on PC ... and it's late on this side of the planet
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Andrew on Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:19 am

Dee4Three wrote:So I reached out on NBA 2Ks Facebook with my videos, and these are the type of responses I get from people:

Wes says:

"People like you ruin the game. Complain too much and they will make every player seem like Dennis Rodman"

Martyn says:

"You'd get laughed off the court if u actually played against real players and not AI"


Are people really this ridiculous? Are people so stuck in their own reality that they believe these comments are relevant to this issue? I ruin the game because I point out that we can score whenever we want, with whoever we want? And, I suck at the game against humans because clearly I am trying my hardest in those videos, it's not clear that I am showing a gameplay flaw?

What the hell is wrong with people?


Apologists and snobby online gamers who think they're better than offline gamers. Among the worst members of any gaming community, in my view. It's like I said in a recent Monday Tip-Off article. A lot of people take the position that "not my problem, not a real problem". Ironically, the same people will whine that people don't share their complaints. We human beings are a funny lot, sometimes.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:45 am

Andrew wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:So I reached out on NBA 2Ks Facebook with my videos, and these are the type of responses I get from people:

Wes says:

"People like you ruin the game. Complain too much and they will make every player seem like Dennis Rodman"

Martyn says:

"You'd get laughed off the court if u actually played against real players and not AI"


Are people really this ridiculous? Are people so stuck in their own reality that they believe these comments are relevant to this issue? I ruin the game because I point out that we can score whenever we want, with whoever we want? And, I suck at the game against humans because clearly I am trying my hardest in those videos, it's not clear that I am showing a gameplay flaw?

What the hell is wrong with people?


Apologists and snobby online gamers who think they're better than offline gamers. Among the worst members of any gaming community, in my view. It's like I said in a recent Monday Tip-Off article. A lot of people take the position that "not my problem, not a real problem". Ironically, the same people will whine that people don't share their complaints. We human beings are a funny lot, sometimes.


Spot on.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby fjccommish on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:47 pm

2k17 had the same problem. I stopped playing it after a couple of weeks, because I finally noticed the problem. Now 18 has the same problem. It's unplayable.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:53 pm

fjccommish wrote:2k17 had the same problem. I stopped playing it after a couple of weeks, because I finally noticed the problem. Now 18 has the same problem. It's unplayable.


2k17 did not have that same problem. You could not just run by your guy in the halfcourt, you had to put together moves, set screens, or time your first step right to get by your guy. 2K18 is literally an iso 100% of the time, to the hoop 100% of the time.

I know you were a "professional gamer", but I put thousands of hours into 2K17, and have put a lot of hours into 2K18, I am very aware of the differences. 2K17 had issues with transition defense, backdoor cuts, and excessive bumping. Not only does 2K18 have the same issue with transition defense, it has 100% drive by potential in the half court.

2K17 had its fair share of issues (Mostly post patches) However, I prefer 2K17 because in the half court it does take strategy most of the time to score, whether it be running plays or putting together dribble combinations.

The issue is not the same, and anybody who has played both games a good length of time knows that. So, I suggest you put more time into the games before making a statement about them.

And by the way, being a former "professional gamer" means absolutely nothing in this thread. Especially because it sounds like your time spent with the games is less than anybody else commenting.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Barkley_Sixers on Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:39 pm

I tested the patch on PS4. Perimeter defense is easy as always, but now the help comes much more frequently. At least It's a bit playable now, because It's not a guaranteed bucket when I go ISO. Sometimes my shot gets blocked, sometimes they double while closing out my passing lanes, which cause some turnovers. And sometimes I miss the open 3 after the help comes. It's still annoying the fact that dribble moves are still useless, but at least it kinda resembles a game of basketball now. I still hope they fix the perimeter defense on the next patch tho
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:09 pm

fjccommish wrote:2k17 had the same problem. I stopped playing it after a couple of weeks, because I finally noticed the problem. Now 18 has the same problem. It's unplayable.

you should stop playing 2K on oscilloscope :cheeky:
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:38 am

Barkley_Sixers wrote:I tested the patch on PS4. Perimeter defense is easy as always, but now the help comes much more frequently. At least It's a bit playable now, because It's not a guaranteed bucket when I go ISO. Sometimes my shot gets blocked, sometimes they double while closing out my passing lanes, which cause some turnovers. And sometimes I miss the open 3 after the help comes. It's still annoying the fact that dribble moves are still useless, but at least it kinda resembles a game of basketball now. I still hope they fix the perimeter defense on the next patch tho


Thanks for the update.

However, I have heard of and tried the defensive sliders that are ramped up to 100 almost all across the board for the CPU, and was even told I would get swatted into the 3rd row with a set of sliders, meanwhile I go into the game and just run by my guy and blowout the best team in the league, I am not optimistic. However, as with the other slider sets, I will try the game post patch. One thing you guys can't accuse me of, is not trying.

Also, the fact that the perimeter defense is still as easy as ever, is still a gamebreaker. Once again, literally voiding out any use of any dribble moves or strategy, you can just run to the hoop. I do not approve one bit of the direction 2K is going with this new motion system, but hope they can make adjustments to it in future 2K's. My disagreement does nothing though, because who am I? I'm just a dedicated NLSC dude. When the issues are brought forward, they get met with anger, disbelief, accusations, denial, etc. But, I will say again... you cannot dispute what is right in front of you on unedited video, which is what I posted.... that cannot be disputed.

Again though, I appreciate the update.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:04 am

Well, i tweak and tweak and tweak ... again and over again the sliders

I tried to slow more User settings.
it worked ... few games (3/14 for Ntilikina on Curry with Dee technique).
I quit the game, came back, touch nothing, and then it was easy as Dee's videos.
At this point, (15/15 for player speed/acceleration), I also noticed strange behaviour with fast players. When i use Kyrie, he's slow, but his dribble is too fast.

So, i tweak and tweak and tweak ... again and over again but the opposite :mrgreen:
and .... there's very strange behaviour with the new options at the bottom of the sliders screens.
all new sliders settings to 100 on USER side, no modification on CPU side. Then, my players are ultra fast (like expected) but also CPU players are fasters ?! modifying USER side alter CPU side ?! :crazyeyes:
Finally, i notice that "classic" settings Speed and Acceleration seem to have no impact.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:09 am

sticky-fingers wrote:Well, i tweak and tweak and tweak ... again and over again the sliders

I tried to slow more User settings.
it worked ... few games (3/14 for Ntilikina on Curry with Dee technique).
I quit the game, came back, touch nothing, and then it was easy as Dee's videos.
At this point, (15/15 for player speed/acceleration), I also noticed strange behaviour with fast players. When i use Kyrie, he's slow, but his dribble is too fast.

So, i tweak and tweak and tweak ... again and over again but the opposite :mrgreen:
and .... there's very strange behaviour with the new options at the bottom of the sliders screens.
all new sliders settings to 100 on USER side, no modification on CPU side. Then, my players are ultra fast (like expected) but also CPU players are fasters ?! modifying USER side alter CPU side ?! :crazyeyes:
Finally, i notice that "classic" settings Speed and Acceleration seem to have no impact.


I've stated this before, I feel like a lot of sliders are there for show. As in, I can put on ball defense at 100, and they play on ball defense the same as if it were on 25, they don't get any better at it.

Slowing player speed does work, but player speed at 15 and acceleration at 15? That would demolish the pace.

The bottom line is, the issue is the guy not staying in front (Even with CPU sliders jacked up to 100 on defense), and the help not coming often enough (Or if they do not jumping or doing anything). IF they could fix that on ball defense, where not everybody could get by all the time, I would absolutely be more amped about the gameplay. But considering dribble moves mean nothing, and strategy means nothing, that's a no for me.

I will keep trying the game after the patches as well, but I don't think they will fix this issue this year, and that's a shame.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:23 am

Is it just for show, or related to animations, to new sliders options ? A mix of all theses reasons ?
I'm not as sure as you that it always broken, but my last results are very strange.
I cant explain why CPU speed without ball can be altered after i modified User speed values ?!
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:27 am

sticky-fingers wrote:Is it just for show, or related to animations, to new sliders options ? A mix of all theses reasons ?
I'm not as sure as you that it always broken, but my last results are very strange.
I cant explain why CPU speed without ball can be altered after i modified User speed values ?!


Well, it's pretty black & White when it comes down to it. For example, if CPU sliders are jacked to 100 defensively, and you see little to no improvement in the defense (As in, I can get by anybody at any time with anyone), that means that the sliders don't work as they should. Which means the sliders are broken.

I used the example of "On-Ball Steal" in 2K17 as a slider that does work, I saw the results even when lowering it just 10-15 points. I think when it comes to a gameplay mechanic issue, like the new motion system simply malfunctioning or not being good enough, those issues can't be fixed with sliders. That's what it seems like. The motion system they tried is broken in regards to perimeter defense and help defense. Which, makes the game no fun for me.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Barkley_Sixers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:27 am

One more thing, have you guys notice that avoiding contact making a dribble move is not useless, but actually make things harder? While you are hip-riding the defender, the CPU thinks everything is under control and they won't help. But if you do an hesi (No pull-up jimbo tho) and drive avoiding the contact, the help will come much faster. The defender is like: "Those defenders at the rim are quite dangerous sir, but I can escourt you to the hoop so they won't bother you". The difference after the patch is that the CPU are better positioned and have more awareness to help, even after using ISO. What happened most of the time after the patch is: 1- ISO. 2- Hip-ride the defender. 3- After the hip-ride ends, most of the time the opposing 5 will help, leaving your 5 completely open under the basket. 4- Pass and get a free dunk
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:31 am

Barkley_Sixers wrote:One more thing, have you guys notice that avoiding contact making a dribble move is not useless, but actually make things harder? While you are hip-riding the defender, the CPU thinks everything is under control and they won't help. But if you do an hesi (No pull-up jimbo tho) and drive avoiding the contact, the help will come much faster. The defender is like: "Those defenders at the rim are quite dangerous sir, but I can escourt you to the hoop so they won't bother you". The difference after the patch is that the CPU are better positioned and have more awareness to help, even after using ISO. What happened most of the time after the patch is: 1- ISO. 2- Hip-ride the defender. 3- After the hip-ride ends, most of the time the opposing 5 will help, leaving your 5 completely open under the basket. 4- Pass and get a free dunk


I did notice a bit of that. The other thing you will notice, if you are in your famous hip ride motion to the hoop, and you try to do any dribble move (which doesn't serve a purpose anyway because you are getting to the hoop) the ball will be caught on the defenders body and cause a body steal. So even if you want to sometimes break out of your hip ride motion (Why would you?) it's tough to without the dreaded body steal to happen. And, anybody that says the halfcourt defense is better in any way in this game is out of their minds. Even the 100% drive capability aside, players are getting lost all the time, and like your example, getting points has never been easier because of it. This game is 0 challenge.

So think about how messed up this is. So you can do dribble moves for no reason, and defense may be better because you are faking strategy. But, if you decide to just gun it to the hoop, you literally can just go with any player and the defense is like "Nah, F it".

It's a really, really messed up system. And, it's alarming to me that more people don't make a big deal about it. I can't believe more people don't talk about it.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Barkley_Sixers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:47 am

And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:50 am

Barkley_Sixers wrote:And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen


Ouch, I'm sorry...

If you ever decide to purchase 2K17 on discount, I have 3 rosters you would love, all include primed Barkley. Not sure if you checked them out.

Also, I do hope the game gets better... that's the point of this thread. It's to get the information out there. The problem is, there are only a few people even mentioning this issue. Which is why I don't think we will get a fix. I also hope I didn't ruin it for you, as in... I hope that it wasn't this thread that made you figure it out.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Barkley_Sixers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:56 am

Dee4Three wrote:
Barkley_Sixers wrote:And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen


Ouch, I'm sorry...

If you ever decide to purchase 2K17 on discount, I have 3 rosters you would love, all include primed Barkley. Not sure if you checked them out.

Also, I do hope the game gets better... that's the point of this thread. It's to get the information out there. The problem is, there are only a few people even mentioning this issue. Which is why I don't think we will get a fix. I also hope I didn't ruin it for you, as in... I hope that it wasn't this thread that made you figure it out.


Well, it kinda is, but only because I would be too busy wasting my time editing Rosters for a broken game. I would find out about it one day, for sure. The only "good" thing about this is that it made me try out MyCareer/MyPark/Pro-Am on the PS4 version that my brother bought, and I ended up liking it, and sometimes we play on the same team on MyPark. I have always been more of a Post player anyway, so I created a 6'11 Post-Up/Defender Center. And since my speed and ball-handling are shit, at least I can't just drive to the hoop here Lol. But I'm still more of an Offline player being forced to play the Online modes tho

About 2k17, there is some concerns. One is that the game is at full price at the moment. Another thing is that annoying High-school body type. For me 2k17 is the worst 2k in history by far regarding body types just because of that body type alone. Looking at John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and a lot of other players makes me sick. Also, If I'm not mistaken, it will probably not take long until they remove the servers completely and I can't download any rosters, right?
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:06 am

Barkley_Sixers wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
Barkley_Sixers wrote:And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen


Ouch, I'm sorry...

If you ever decide to purchase 2K17 on discount, I have 3 rosters you would love, all include primed Barkley. Not sure if you checked them out.

Also, I do hope the game gets better... that's the point of this thread. It's to get the information out there. The problem is, there are only a few people even mentioning this issue. Which is why I don't think we will get a fix. I also hope I didn't ruin it for you, as in... I hope that it wasn't this thread that made you figure it out.


Well, it kinda is, but only because I would be too busy wasting my time editing Rosters for a broken game. I would find out about it one day, for sure. The only "good" thing about this is that it made me try out MyCareer/MyPark/Pro-Am on the PS4 version that my brother bought, and I ended up liking it, and sometimes we play on the same team on MyPark. I have always been more of a Post player anyway, so I created a 6'11 Post-Up/Defender Center. And since my speed and ball-handling are shit, at least I can't just drive to the hoop here Lol. But I'm still more of an Offline player being forced to play the Online modes tho

About 2k17, there is some concerns. One is that the game is at full price at the moment. Another thing is that annoying High-school body type. For me 2k17 is the worst 2k in history by far regarding body types just because of that body type alone. Looking at John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and a lot of other players makes me sick. Also, If I'm not mistaken, it will probably not take long until they remove the servers completely and I can't download any rosters, right?


Did you look at my 2K17 classic teams rosters thread? I've basically fixed all of the skinny body types for all the classic teams (Including the new ones I put in).

And I would think that they would keep the servers up for awhile longer, have you watched any of my 2K17 videos on my youtube channel? The graphics are my favorite ever with fixed body types and the right global. The game looks absolutely stunning.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Barkley_Sixers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:19 am

Damn, that looks quite amazing. Wish I already had 2k17 so I wouldn't need to buy an old 2k right after I purchase the new one at full price, but I will take a look at it. Also, if they somehow fix the perimeter defense, I will really regret doing it
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:58 pm

Barkley_Sixers wrote:I tested the patch on PS4. Perimeter defense is easy as always, but now the help comes much more frequently.


No changes for CPU defense with 1.04 update.
And i also confirm what i told yesterday (and someone already wrote here) : sliders broke sometimes.
My sliders were'nt applied. I could drive 4/4 with Ntilikina on Curry (no speed difference, no help)
Then I changed one simple value during a game (sorry Dee, apologies :mrgreen: ) and 0/4 with the same player and a completely different feeling (as expected).

Quick (and awful) videos with working sliders :
phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:40 pm

Sticky, I didn't touch your sliders, not one. I just went into the sliders screen. That would not cause a sliders break.

My video is with your sliders. And, if I have to, I'll make another one with your sliders. But that makes no sense, because the one I made before is legit.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:46 pm

You misunderstand.
I have good sessions with working sliders. And then, suddenly, games with "unknown" sliders. So when it happened, i changed 1 sliders value during a game, and expected behaviour came back.
That's why I apologized to you, because i told you "dont go to the sliders during a game" :mrgreen:
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:53 pm

Here is the bottom line.

Even the people trying to say it's better or improved (which it's not) are even admitting that you can get by your guy 100% of the time. So I ask you, what's the point of playing this game seriously? That means dribble moves are thrown out the door, strategy as well. That means that every player can be used the same, it means I can get to the hoop just as easy with Marcus Smart as with Kevin Durant.

Do you realize how gamebreaking and ridiculous that is? That's not NBA basketball, that's not fun.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:11 am

It's a glitch or a gamebreaking.
And theses kinds of glitches happen in most of the games. Speedrunners can break games in few minutes where it takes you hours.

Does it mean that the rest must be put in the trash. Our opinions differ.
I dont validate neither 2K's errors, but as long i don't play this way, the rest of the gameplay is an improvement.

Should it be fix by 2K ? Yes
Will it be ? yeah, perhaps in 2K19 :cheeky:
Why ? Because "only" offline players are impacted. A niche in a niche. Does 2K give a shit on this point ? You say, they read the forum. But nearly a month later, there's NO official answer on your thread.
Another point is if you play online or versus a human, this glitch is even a good thing against players who defend off the ball and let the CPU guards you.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:19 am

sticky-fingers wrote:It's a glitch or a gamebreaking.
And theses kinds of glitches happen in most of the games. Speedrunners can break games in few minutes where it takes you hours.

Does it mean that the rest must be put in the trash. Our opinions differ.
I dont validate neither 2K's errors, but as long i don't play this way, the rest of the gameplay is an improvement.

Should it be fix by 2K ? Yes
Will it be ? yeah, perhaps in 2K19 :cheeky:
Why ? Because "only" offline players are impacted. A niche in a niche. Does 2K give a shit on this point ? You say, they read the forum. But nearly a month later, there's NO official answer on your thread.
Another point is if you play online or versus a human, this glitch is even a good thing against players who defend off the ball and let the CPU guards you.


It is gamebreaking for me. And no, I've played every 2k since NBA Action 98, and I've never been able to just run by any guy on the opposing team. The closest to that was 2K10 where they had the hip ride animation, but it wasn't as dominant.

And, my brother and I played some full games of 2K18 with jacked sliders on defense. And even when a human is guarding you, you can easily get to the hoop, it's the same. It doesn't change when they go into that animation. We were sitting there laughing at the tv because we were doing it on every posession with whoever we used.

It's literally a broken system defensively, and that does make the rest of the gameplay pointless for me. It voids it out.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dmayne on Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:39 pm

apologies if someone suggested this already, i didn't want to re-read through all 5 pages.

had you tried to to grab a random team and put all the players movement and/or defensive stats to 99?
try that with default hof silders, then yours/others sliders.

idk if it will make a difference but maybe we can find a stat or 2 on players that make them faster/smarter/more consistent on defense. then boost them stats across the entire roster.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:29 am

I agree that 1 on 1 AI defense is bad this year, but i disagree that you have to have some sort of strategy to score in 2k17, pick and roll defense in 2k17 is terrible, i think there was a video that guy scored i don't know how many points just by using pick and roll because pick and roll defense and help defense were terrible. And it was gamebreaking in a same way, i had to have a house rule that i wouldn't score on passes to the center after pick and roll because it was too easy. It's a similar thing with 2k18 and i don't drive every possesion, i mostly run plays, try to score in a variety of ways, but if i wanted to i could probably score most of my points off driving, just like i could off the pick and roll in the 2k17. I hope they fix it, because 2k18 is much better looking game with better player models and i love most of the things except for that animation/defense that allows you to drive every time you want
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:39 am

TheRocket wrote:I agree that 1 on 1 AI defense is bad this year, but i disagree that you have to have some sort of strategy to score in 2k17, pick and roll defense in 2k17 is terrible, i think there was a video that guy scored i don't know how many points just by using pick and roll because pick and roll defense and help defense were terrible. And it was gamebreaking in a same way, i had to have a house rule that i wouldn't score on passes to the center after pick and roll because it was too easy. It's a similar thing with 2k18 and i don't drive every possesion, i mostly run plays, try to score in a variety of ways, but if i wanted to i could probably score most of my points off driving, just like i could off the pick and roll in the 2k17. I hope they fix it, because 2k18 is much better looking game with better player models and i love most of the things except for that animation/defense that allows you to drive every time you want


This is not true, with slider tweaks it is very hard to complete pick n rolls in 2K17. In fact, steals happen OFTEN if you don't run it just right, and even sometimes when you do. The pick n roll is actually easier in 2K18, to go along with the driving that is unfixable even with extreme sliders.

2K17 had much better half court defense. Not only could you not get the hoop with anybody on anyone, but you had to chain moves together or time your first step right to get by your man, or run a play, or atleast move the ball.

The enjoyment and challenge of 2K17 is far superior in my opinion. I completely disagree on the pick n rolls. This is coming from someone who played NBA 2K17 maybe more than anyone on here. Now, if you have the game on pro or all star with no slider tweaks, the pick n rolls are easier. But when you have it on HOF or HOF with slider tweaks, it is absolutely not.

The definition of a gamebreaker is being able run by your guy no matter who he is or what his defensive ratings are, with anyone no matter how good they are, and you can do it at any time and the defense doesn't adjust. That is the definition of game breaking. Throwing dribble moves, strategies, players real life abilities, all of that out the window, because you can just run by your guy. Gamebreaking is having CPU help defense, on ball defense, and the other defensive sliders at 100, and you can still do it. And, doing it like 15 times in a row, and no double teams or help coming. In 2K17, even if you were to get by your guy numerous times in a row (which you probably wont) the double teams do come, and so does the help. And while not perfect, you still have to think while you play and use strategy.

That is why 2K18 is broken game to me.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:08 am

Dee4Three wrote:
TheRocket wrote:I agree that 1 on 1 AI defense is bad this year, but i disagree that you have to have some sort of strategy to score in 2k17, pick and roll defense in 2k17 is terrible, i think there was a video that guy scored i don't know how many points just by using pick and roll because pick and roll defense and help defense were terrible. And it was gamebreaking in a same way, i had to have a house rule that i wouldn't score on passes to the center after pick and roll because it was too easy. It's a similar thing with 2k18 and i don't drive every possesion, i mostly run plays, try to score in a variety of ways, but if i wanted to i could probably score most of my points off driving, just like i could off the pick and roll in the 2k17. I hope they fix it, because 2k18 is much better looking game with better player models and i love most of the things except for that animation/defense that allows you to drive every time you want


This is not true, with slider tweaks it is very hard to complete pick n rolls in 2K17. In fact, steals happen OFTEN if you don't run it just right, and even sometimes when you do. The pick n roll is actually easier in 2K18, to go along with the driving that is unfixable even with extreme sliders.

2K17 had much better half court defense. Not only could you not get the hoop with anybody on anyone, but you had to chain moves together or time your first step right to get by your man, or run a play, or atleast move the ball.

The enjoyment and challenge of 2K17 is far superior in my opinion. I completely disagree on the pick n rolls. This is coming from someone who played NBA 2K17 maybe more than anyone on here. Now, if you have the game on pro or all star with no slider tweaks, the pick n rolls are easier. But when you have it on HOF or HOF with slider tweaks, it is absolutely not.

The definition of a gamebreaker is being able run by your guy no matter who he is or what his defensive ratings are, with anyone no matter how good they are, and you can do it at any time and the defense doesn't adjust. That is the definition of game breaking. Throwing dribble moves, strategies, players real life abilities, all of that out the window, because you can just run by your guy. Gamebreaking is having CPU help defense, on ball defense, and the other defensive sliders at 100, and you can still do it. And, doing it like 15 times in a row, and no double teams or help coming. In 2K17, even if you were to get by your guy numerous times in a row (which you probably wont) the double teams do come, and so does the help. And while not perfect, you still have to think while you play and use strategy.

That is why 2K18 is broken game to me.


I don't know, I think both are broken in a way i had to discipline myself and not play my best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZCGc1MCqsE

I played 2k17 a lot and tried different sliders, mostly HOF or SS and I always saw CPU's pick and roll defense as awful. I doubt that sliders can completely fix a problem that seems like it's in the core of the game and can only be fixed by developers
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:13 am

I have fixed it with sliders, I can't fix the defense with sliders with 2K18.

That's the difference for me.

And btw, I'd rather have pick n rolls be easier, than being able to get by my guy 100% of the time no matter who I am using, throwing dribbling moves out the door completely, and players individual skill.

It's not even a question for me.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby TheRocket on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:21 am

Dee4Three wrote:I have fixed it with sliders, I can't fix the defense with sliders with 2K18.

That's the difference for me.

And btw, I'd rather have pick n rolls be easier, than being able to get by my guy 100% of the time no matter who I am using, throwing dribbling moves out the door completely, and players individual skill.

It's not even a question for me.


As i said, same for me because both result in an unnaturally easy way of getting points, in 2k17 it's Pick and Roll which leads you to easy buckets in the paint in 2k18 it's easy driving that leads you to easy points either off the ft line or layups. Both ways, i have to discipline myself and try to act stupid and like i don't know it's overpowered. I can do it, i was doing it, i pick teams that play team basketbal. In 2k17 it was Memphis, not i am playing with Jazz and try to make it as realistic as possible
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:26 am

I'll post a video of how it can be fixed with sliders in 2k17, and how it's not as dominant.

Also, it is not as easy on default HOF to run it as it is getting by people in 2K18. And I refuse to play dumb on a video game and fake dribble moves for no reason. That defeats the purpose.

And, don't act like it makes it okay because 2K17 had issues, it is still a crushing issue in 2K18, it breaks the game for me completely.
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby sticky-fingers on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:27 am

Dee, It's not only pnr in 2K17, it's related to a system called by the player. And it can't be fixed by sliders neither.

If you dont choose ISO on 2K18, you dont have a clear path, you cant exploit the glitch as easily.

So same cause ("cheated" system), same result (easy bucket, stupid defense).
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Re: The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:33 am

It is not the same thing, or the same severity.

Also, again.. Stop justifying the issue. It's a gamebreaking issue, even the people defending it are saying they have to play stupid to make it realistic
Last edited by Dee4Three on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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