The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

[Dee4Three]

Well, i tweak and tweak and tweak ... again and over again the sliders

I tried to slow more User settings.
it worked ... few games (3/14 for Ntilikina on Curry with Dee technique).
I quit the game, came back, touch nothing, and then it was easy as Dee's videos.
At this point, (15/15 for player speed/acceleration), I also noticed strange behaviour with fast players. When i use Kyrie, he's slow, but his dribble is too fast.

So, i tweak and tweak and tweak ... again and over again but the opposite
and .... there's very strange behaviour with the new options at the bottom of the sliders screens.
all new sliders settings to 100 on USER side, no modification on CPU side. Then, my players are ultra fast (like expected) but also CPU players are fasters ?! modifying USER side alter CPU side ?!
Finally, i notice that "classic" settings Speed and Acceleration seem to have no impact.

I've stated this before, I feel like a lot of sliders are there for show. As in, I can put on ball defense at 100, and they play on ball defense the same as if it were on 25, they don't get any better at it.

Slowing player speed does work, but player speed at 15 and acceleration at 15? That would demolish the pace.

The bottom line is, the issue is the guy not staying in front (Even with CPU sliders jacked up to 100 on defense), and the help not coming often enough (Or if they do not jumping or doing anything). IF they could fix that on ball defense, where not everybody could get by all the time, I would absolutely be more amped about the gameplay. But considering dribble moves mean nothing, and strategy means nothing, that's a no for me.

I will keep trying the game after the patches as well, but I don't think they will fix this issue this year, and that's a shame.

[sticky-fingers]

Is it just for show, or related to animations, to new sliders options ? A mix of all theses reasons ?
I'm not as sure as you that it always broken, but my last results are very strange.
I cant explain why CPU speed without ball can be altered after i modified User speed values ?!

[Dee4Three]

Is it just for show, or related to animations, to new sliders options ? A mix of all theses reasons ?
I'm not as sure as you that it always broken, but my last results are very strange.
I cant explain why CPU speed without ball can be altered after i modified User speed values ?!

Well, it's pretty black & White when it comes down to it. For example, if CPU sliders are jacked to 100 defensively, and you see little to no improvement in the defense (As in, I can get by anybody at any time with anyone), that means that the sliders don't work as they should. Which means the sliders are broken.

I used the example of "On-Ball Steal" in 2K17 as a slider that does work, I saw the results even when lowering it just 10-15 points. I think when it comes to a gameplay mechanic issue, like the new motion system simply malfunctioning or not being good enough, those issues can't be fixed with sliders. That's what it seems like. The motion system they tried is broken in regards to perimeter defense and help defense. Which, makes the game no fun for me.

[Barkley_Sixers]

One more thing, have you guys notice that avoiding contact making a dribble move is not useless, but actually make things harder? While you are hip-riding the defender, the CPU thinks everything is under control and they won't help. But if you do an hesi (No pull-up jimbo tho) and drive avoiding the contact, the help will come much faster. The defender is like: "Those defenders at the rim are quite dangerous sir, but I can escourt you to the hoop so they won't bother you". The difference after the patch is that the CPU are better positioned and have more awareness to help, even after using ISO. What happened most of the time after the patch is: 1- ISO. 2- Hip-ride the defender. 3- After the hip-ride ends, most of the time the opposing 5 will help, leaving your 5 completely open under the basket. 4- Pass and get a free dunk

[Dee4Three]

One more thing, have you guys notice that avoiding contact making a dribble move is not useless, but actually make things harder? While you are hip-riding the defender, the CPU thinks everything is under control and they won't help. But if you do an hesi (No pull-up jimbo tho) and drive avoiding the contact, the help will come much faster. The defender is like: "Those defenders at the rim are quite dangerous sir, but I can escourt you to the hoop so they won't bother you". The difference after the patch is that the CPU are better positioned and have more awareness to help, even after using ISO. What happened most of the time after the patch is: 1- ISO. 2- Hip-ride the defender. 3- After the hip-ride ends, most of the time the opposing 5 will help, leaving your 5 completely open under the basket. 4- Pass and get a free dunk

I did notice a bit of that. The other thing you will notice, if you are in your famous hip ride motion to the hoop, and you try to do any dribble move (which doesn't serve a purpose anyway because you are getting to the hoop) the ball will be caught on the defenders body and cause a body steal. So even if you want to sometimes break out of your hip ride motion (Why would you?) it's tough to without the dreaded body steal to happen. And, anybody that says the halfcourt defense is better in any way in this game is out of their minds. Even the 100% drive capability aside, players are getting lost all the time, and like your example, getting points has never been easier because of it. This game is 0 challenge.

So think about how messed up this is. So you can do dribble moves for no reason, and defense may be better because you are faking strategy. But, if you decide to just gun it to the hoop, you literally can just go with any player and the defense is like "Nah, F it".

It's a really, really messed up system. And, it's alarming to me that more people don't make a big deal about it. I can't believe more people don't talk about it.

[Barkley_Sixers]

And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen

[Dee4Three]

And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen

Ouch, I'm sorry...

If you ever decide to purchase 2K17 on discount, I have 3 rosters you would love, all include primed Barkley. Not sure if you checked them out.

Also, I do hope the game gets better... that's the point of this thread. It's to get the information out there. The problem is, there are only a few people even mentioning this issue. Which is why I don't think we will get a fix. I also hope I didn't ruin it for you, as in... I hope that it wasn't this thread that made you figure it out.

[Barkley_Sixers]

And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen

Ouch, I'm sorry...

If you ever decide to purchase 2K17 on discount, I have 3 rosters you would love, all include primed Barkley. Not sure if you checked them out.

Also, I do hope the game gets better... that's the point of this thread. It's to get the information out there. The problem is, there are only a few people even mentioning this issue. Which is why I don't think we will get a fix. I also hope I didn't ruin it for you, as in... I hope that it wasn't this thread that made you figure it out.

Well, it kinda is, but only because I would be too busy wasting my time editing Rosters for a broken game. I would find out about it one day, for sure. The only "good" thing about this is that it made me try out MyCareer/MyPark/Pro-Am on the PS4 version that my brother bought, and I ended up liking it, and sometimes we play on the same team on MyPark. I have always been more of a Post player anyway, so I created a 6'11 Post-Up/Defender Center. And since my speed and ball-handling are shit, at least I can't just drive to the hoop here Lol. But I'm still more of an Offline player being forced to play the Online modes tho

About 2k17, there is some concerns. One is that the game is at full price at the moment. Another thing is that annoying High-school body type. For me 2k17 is the worst 2k in history by far regarding body types just because of that body type alone. Looking at John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and a lot of other players makes me sick. Also, If I'm not mistaken, it will probably not take long until they remove the servers completely and I can't download any rosters, right?

[Dee4Three]

And that problem happened at the worst timing ever for me. The last 2k that I modded on PC was 2k14, and I finally bought a new PC just 2 months ago. I didn't bother to buy 2k17 because 2k18 was about to launch and I had 2k17 on PS4 anyway. Also, I do my own All-time Teams every year and not only I could do it on PC now, but they also offered official All-time teams to make it easier for me to Mod it. Imagine a kid that didn't have any toys for 3 years and all of a sudden he has all the toys in the world, that's how I was feeling about having 2k18 on PC. But no, they had to ruin all the fun that I waited years for it to happen

Ouch, I'm sorry...

If you ever decide to purchase 2K17 on discount, I have 3 rosters you would love, all include primed Barkley. Not sure if you checked them out.

Also, I do hope the game gets better... that's the point of this thread. It's to get the information out there. The problem is, there are only a few people even mentioning this issue. Which is why I don't think we will get a fix. I also hope I didn't ruin it for you, as in... I hope that it wasn't this thread that made you figure it out.

Well, it kinda is, but only because I would be too busy wasting my time editing Rosters for a broken game. I would find out about it one day, for sure. The only "good" thing about this is that it made me try out MyCareer/MyPark/Pro-Am on the PS4 version that my brother bought, and I ended up liking it, and sometimes we play on the same team on MyPark. I have always been more of a Post player anyway, so I created a 6'11 Post-Up/Defender Center. And since my speed and ball-handling are shit, at least I can't just drive to the hoop here Lol. But I'm still more of an Offline player being forced to play the Online modes tho

About 2k17, there is some concerns. One is that the game is at full price at the moment. Another thing is that annoying High-school body type. For me 2k17 is the worst 2k in history by far regarding body types just because of that body type alone. Looking at John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance and a lot of other players makes me sick. Also, If I'm not mistaken, it will probably not take long until they remove the servers completely and I can't download any rosters, right?

Did you look at my 2K17 classic teams rosters thread? I've basically fixed all of the skinny body types for all the classic teams (Including the new ones I put in).

And I would think that they would keep the servers up for awhile longer, have you watched any of my 2K17 videos on my youtube channel? The graphics are my favorite ever with fixed body types and the right global. The game looks absolutely stunning.

[Barkley_Sixers]

Damn, that looks quite amazing. Wish I already had 2k17 so I wouldn't need to buy an old 2k right after I purchase the new one at full price, but I will take a look at it. Also, if they somehow fix the perimeter defense, I will really regret doing it

[sticky-fingers]

I tested the patch on PS4. Perimeter defense is easy as always, but now the help comes much more frequently.

No changes for CPU defense with 1.04 update.
And i also confirm what i told yesterday (and someone already wrote here) : sliders broke sometimes.
My sliders were'nt applied. I could drive 4/4 with Ntilikina on Curry (no speed difference, no help)
Then I changed one simple value during a game (sorry Dee, apologies ) and 0/4 with the same player and a completely different feeling (as expected).

Quick (and awful) videos with working sliders :

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

[Dee4Three]

Sticky, I didn't touch your sliders, not one. I just went into the sliders screen. That would not cause a sliders break.

My video is with your sliders. And, if I have to, I'll make another one with your sliders. But that makes no sense, because the one I made before is legit.

[sticky-fingers]

You misunderstand.
I have good sessions with working sliders. And then, suddenly, games with "unknown" sliders. So when it happened, i changed 1 sliders value during a game, and expected behaviour came back.
That's why I apologized to you, because i told you "dont go to the sliders during a game"

[Dee4Three]

Here is the bottom line.

Even the people trying to say it's better or improved (which it's not) are even admitting that you can get by your guy 100% of the time. So I ask you, what's the point of playing this game seriously? That means dribble moves are thrown out the door, strategy as well. That means that every player can be used the same, it means I can get to the hoop just as easy with Marcus Smart as with Kevin Durant.

Do you realize how gamebreaking and ridiculous that is? That's not NBA basketball, that's not fun.

[sticky-fingers]

It's a glitch or a gamebreaking.
And theses kinds of glitches happen in most of the games. Speedrunners can break games in few minutes where it takes you hours.

Does it mean that the rest must be put in the trash. Our opinions differ.
I dont validate neither 2K's errors, but as long i don't play this way, the rest of the gameplay is an improvement.

Should it be fix by 2K ? Yes
Will it be ? yeah, perhaps in 2K19
Why ? Because "only" offline players are impacted. A niche in a niche. Does 2K give a shit on this point ? You say, they read the forum. But nearly a month later, there's NO official answer on your thread.
Another point is if you play online or versus a human, this glitch is even a good thing against players who defend off the ball and let the CPU guards you.

[Dee4Three]

It's a glitch or a gamebreaking.
And theses kinds of glitches happen in most of the games. Speedrunners can break games in few minutes where it takes you hours.

Does it mean that the rest must be put in the trash. Our opinions differ.
I dont validate neither 2K's errors, but as long i don't play this way, the rest of the gameplay is an improvement.

Should it be fix by 2K ? Yes
Will it be ? yeah, perhaps in 2K19
Why ? Because "only" offline players are impacted. A niche in a niche. Does 2K give a shit on this point ? You say, they read the forum. But nearly a month later, there's NO official answer on your thread.
Another point is if you play online or versus a human, this glitch is even a good thing against players who defend off the ball and let the CPU guards you.

It is gamebreaking for me. And no, I've played every 2k since NBA Action 98, and I've never been able to just run by any guy on the opposing team. The closest to that was 2K10 where they had the hip ride animation, but it wasn't as dominant.

And, my brother and I played some full games of 2K18 with jacked sliders on defense. And even when a human is guarding you, you can easily get to the hoop, it's the same. It doesn't change when they go into that animation. We were sitting there laughing at the tv because we were doing it on every posession with whoever we used.

It's literally a broken system defensively, and that does make the rest of the gameplay pointless for me. It voids it out.

[Dmayne]

apologies if someone suggested this already, i didn't want to re-read through all 5 pages.

had you tried to to grab a random team and put all the players movement and/or defensive stats to 99?
try that with default hof silders, then yours/others sliders.

idk if it will make a difference but maybe we can find a stat or 2 on players that make them faster/smarter/more consistent on defense. then boost them stats across the entire roster.

[TheRocket]

I agree that 1 on 1 AI defense is bad this year, but i disagree that you have to have some sort of strategy to score in 2k17, pick and roll defense in 2k17 is terrible, i think there was a video that guy scored i don't know how many points just by using pick and roll because pick and roll defense and help defense were terrible. And it was gamebreaking in a same way, i had to have a house rule that i wouldn't score on passes to the center after pick and roll because it was too easy. It's a similar thing with 2k18 and i don't drive every possesion, i mostly run plays, try to score in a variety of ways, but if i wanted to i could probably score most of my points off driving, just like i could off the pick and roll in the 2k17. I hope they fix it, because 2k18 is much better looking game with better player models and i love most of the things except for that animation/defense that allows you to drive every time you want

[Dee4Three]

I agree that 1 on 1 AI defense is bad this year, but i disagree that you have to have some sort of strategy to score in 2k17, pick and roll defense in 2k17 is terrible, i think there was a video that guy scored i don't know how many points just by using pick and roll because pick and roll defense and help defense were terrible. And it was gamebreaking in a same way, i had to have a house rule that i wouldn't score on passes to the center after pick and roll because it was too easy. It's a similar thing with 2k18 and i don't drive every possesion, i mostly run plays, try to score in a variety of ways, but if i wanted to i could probably score most of my points off driving, just like i could off the pick and roll in the 2k17. I hope they fix it, because 2k18 is much better looking game with better player models and i love most of the things except for that animation/defense that allows you to drive every time you want

This is not true, with slider tweaks it is very hard to complete pick n rolls in 2K17. In fact, steals happen OFTEN if you don't run it just right, and even sometimes when you do. The pick n roll is actually easier in 2K18, to go along with the driving that is unfixable even with extreme sliders.

2K17 had much better half court defense. Not only could you not get the hoop with anybody on anyone, but you had to chain moves together or time your first step right to get by your man, or run a play, or atleast move the ball.

The enjoyment and challenge of 2K17 is far superior in my opinion. I completely disagree on the pick n rolls. This is coming from someone who played NBA 2K17 maybe more than anyone on here. Now, if you have the game on pro or all star with no slider tweaks, the pick n rolls are easier. But when you have it on HOF or HOF with slider tweaks, it is absolutely not.

The definition of a gamebreaker is being able run by your guy no matter who he is or what his defensive ratings are, with anyone no matter how good they are, and you can do it at any time and the defense doesn't adjust. That is the definition of game breaking. Throwing dribble moves, strategies, players real life abilities, all of that out the window, because you can just run by your guy. Gamebreaking is having CPU help defense, on ball defense, and the other defensive sliders at 100, and you can still do it. And, doing it like 15 times in a row, and no double teams or help coming. In 2K17, even if you were to get by your guy numerous times in a row (which you probably wont) the double teams do come, and so does the help. And while not perfect, you still have to think while you play and use strategy.

That is why 2K18 is broken game to me.

[TheRocket]

I agree that 1 on 1 AI defense is bad this year, but i disagree that you have to have some sort of strategy to score in 2k17, pick and roll defense in 2k17 is terrible, i think there was a video that guy scored i don't know how many points just by using pick and roll because pick and roll defense and help defense were terrible. And it was gamebreaking in a same way, i had to have a house rule that i wouldn't score on passes to the center after pick and roll because it was too easy. It's a similar thing with 2k18 and i don't drive every possesion, i mostly run plays, try to score in a variety of ways, but if i wanted to i could probably score most of my points off driving, just like i could off the pick and roll in the 2k17. I hope they fix it, because 2k18 is much better looking game with better player models and i love most of the things except for that animation/defense that allows you to drive every time you want

This is not true, with slider tweaks it is very hard to complete pick n rolls in 2K17. In fact, steals happen OFTEN if you don't run it just right, and even sometimes when you do. The pick n roll is actually easier in 2K18, to go along with the driving that is unfixable even with extreme sliders.

2K17 had much better half court defense. Not only could you not get the hoop with anybody on anyone, but you had to chain moves together or time your first step right to get by your man, or run a play, or atleast move the ball.

The enjoyment and challenge of 2K17 is far superior in my opinion. I completely disagree on the pick n rolls. This is coming from someone who played NBA 2K17 maybe more than anyone on here. Now, if you have the game on pro or all star with no slider tweaks, the pick n rolls are easier. But when you have it on HOF or HOF with slider tweaks, it is absolutely not.

The definition of a gamebreaker is being able run by your guy no matter who he is or what his defensive ratings are, with anyone no matter how good they are, and you can do it at any time and the defense doesn't adjust. That is the definition of game breaking. Throwing dribble moves, strategies, players real life abilities, all of that out the window, because you can just run by your guy. Gamebreaking is having CPU help defense, on ball defense, and the other defensive sliders at 100, and you can still do it. And, doing it like 15 times in a row, and no double teams or help coming. In 2K17, even if you were to get by your guy numerous times in a row (which you probably wont) the double teams do come, and so does the help. And while not perfect, you still have to think while you play and use strategy.

That is why 2K18 is broken game to me.

I don't know, I think both are broken in a way i had to discipline myself and not play my best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZCGc1MCqsE

I played 2k17 a lot and tried different sliders, mostly HOF or SS and I always saw CPU's pick and roll defense as awful. I doubt that sliders can completely fix a problem that seems like it's in the core of the game and can only be fixed by developers

[Dee4Three]

I have fixed it with sliders, I can't fix the defense with sliders with 2K18.

That's the difference for me.

And btw, I'd rather have pick n rolls be easier, than being able to get by my guy 100% of the time no matter who I am using, throwing dribbling moves out the door completely, and players individual skill.

It's not even a question for me.

[TheRocket]

I have fixed it with sliders, I can't fix the defense with sliders with 2K18.

That's the difference for me.

And btw, I'd rather have pick n rolls be easier, than being able to get by my guy 100% of the time no matter who I am using, throwing dribbling moves out the door completely, and players individual skill.

It's not even a question for me.

As i said, same for me because both result in an unnaturally easy way of getting points, in 2k17 it's Pick and Roll which leads you to easy buckets in the paint in 2k18 it's easy driving that leads you to easy points either off the ft line or layups. Both ways, i have to discipline myself and try to act stupid and like i don't know it's overpowered. I can do it, i was doing it, i pick teams that play team basketbal. In 2k17 it was Memphis, not i am playing with Jazz and try to make it as realistic as possible

[Dee4Three]

I'll post a video of how it can be fixed with sliders in 2k17, and how it's not as dominant.

Also, it is not as easy on default HOF to run it as it is getting by people in 2K18. And I refuse to play dumb on a video game and fake dribble moves for no reason. That defeats the purpose.

And, don't act like it makes it okay because 2K17 had issues, it is still a crushing issue in 2K18, it breaks the game for me completely.

[sticky-fingers]

Dee, It's not only pnr in 2K17, it's related to a system called by the player. And it can't be fixed by sliders neither.

If you dont choose ISO on 2K18, you dont have a clear path, you cant exploit the glitch as easily.

So same cause ("cheated" system), same result (easy bucket, stupid defense).

[Dee4Three]

It is not the same thing, or the same severity.

Also, again.. Stop justifying the issue. It's a gamebreaking issue, even the people defending it are saying they have to play stupid to make it realistic