Demo Impressions Thread

Talk about NBA Live 18 here.

Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:37 am

Look at the smoothness of animations from 2K17 in this video I made (I'm using the Lakers here). When someone picks the controller up, they have that flow. The game has it's issues gameplay wise, but for a first impression, it's smooth. You will see step back animations in here *(kobe after a spin into the lane), nice fadeaway animations, wide dribbles (Pronounced dribbling), etc. The way the players dunk is more realistic (less dunking from a complete stand still), it feels better.

Perfect example of how it looks and feels shooting on the move is the Wade jumper at 8:12. Having that feel and look makes a huge difference.

We are talking about what makes people not buy, this isn't saying 2k didn't have gameplay issues. It's saying that Live hurts themselves in a major way with that first impression. The way the players dribble up the floor (In animations that are random, and they look a little crazy when pushing it hard), the way they set feet to shoot a shot, the way they shoot on the move, etc.

phpBB [video]
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:52 am

Dee4Three wrote:Look at the smoothness of animations from 2K17 in this video I made (I'm using the Lakers here). When someone picks the controller up, they have that flow. The game has it's issues gameplay wise, but for a first impression, it's smooth. You will see step back animations in here *(kobe after a spin into the lane), nice fadeaway animations, wide dribbles (Pronounced dribbling), etc. The way the players dunk is more realistic (less dunking from a complete stand still), it feels better.

Perfect example of how it looks and feels shooting on the move is the Wade jumper at 8:12. Having that feel and look makes a huge difference.

We are talking about what makes people not buy, this isn't saying 2k didn't have gameplay issues. It's saying that Live hurts themselves in a major way with that first impression. The way the players dribble up the floor (In animations that are random, and they look a little crazy when pushing it hard), the way they set feet to shoot a shot, the way they shoot on the move, etc.

phpBB [video]

here's the problem with showing pretty much any nba 2k video. you will always have this LOOK of realism. but until you actually play the game, especially say pro am or 5 my players vs 5 my players or 5 team up guys vs 5 team up users. then you will start to FEEL the lack of responsiveness of 2k. its not smooth at all. You are not controlling key portions of the action in every game you play with 2k. this is undeniable. and the #1 gripe of Most users who have an axe to grind with 2k.

That has always been my biggest gripe. i know it looks pretty. but can i control it? sometimes. and sometimes not.

simple example:

remember this is human vs human.

I'm player D(defender), Player O ( offensive player).

Player D already know's Player O likes to go baseline on drives. So he runs to the baseline and plants his left foot along the line, facing the corner 3 point line. any coach will tell you, put your foot on that baseline to use the baseline as an extra defender. he can't go around you towards your left foot. he has to change direction and go middle if he doesnt, its a charge or he will lose the ball trying to bully his way thru you, or he will go out of bounds trying to tight rope it along the baseline.

Player O, crosses over for no reason(remember Player D is already sitting on the baseline waiting for Player O. Player O is in full sprint. rams right into player D...but wait...He goes THRU Player D. to finish a shot anyway... Or..... He rams into Player D (who was holding the charge button). and gets a foul call because thats the animation that was called up. or even worse. They make Player D go for a strip animation even though he's holding the charge button. you heard it right. I never pressed the strip button nor the analog controller to reach. I'm holding charge. when did the charge button become the reach button??? well i know now. when you're defending a guy that has a lot of badges along the baseline, especially a playmaker . The badges have the right away no matter where you're physically planted on defense. what kind of nonsense is that?

or lets play the reverse scenario.

I'm Player O. I shake my guy and I'm going baseline. some guy tries to step up late to cut me off. I already hit the RT and Shoot button or analog for my athletic finish to take off for a dunk.

Now in real life one of 3 things should happen.

#1 the guy should go up and dunk on the defender thats super late trying to slide over.
#2 the guy should go up and get undercut by said defender for a no call(terrible no call, but it happens every bluemoon in real life
#3. the guy should go up and get undercut but the ref calls a charge even though the defender is late(this happens sometimes in real life too).


but what usually happens on 2k is, you get sucked into a 2 player animation where your guy does not jump at the right time that you've pressed the button. not a slight button lag. but a super lag. then you get caught in the 2 player canned animation of you running into the defender wildly and lose the ball. again. this isnt what should be happening at all in that scenario. but it does happen a lot in 2k. because they have animations for 2 players ready to go when certain things occur.

the logic is like such:

If player O is not a playmaker and Player D has a high enough defensive rating with high badges(gold or above). even when late, pull player O into player D for the turnover animation.

^^^thats how it works. and that is not me controlling the action at all.

They put that animation in. to stop the baseline cheesers. that would force it baseline even when a defender is there. knowing it would partially break the game due to the fact neither game allows you to easily run out of bounds along the baseline because they know its very difficult to hit the baseline without going out so they have a forcefield there. that forcefield keeps the player from going out technically but still able to right along the field and thru a defenders body to get around them.
2k's answer to everything is either Take it completely out vs fixing the real issue and making the scenario more realistic. Or add some other feature in that stops that one thing and opens up a huge other glitch/exploit.


**NBA 2k18 people are saying they just took out the side step hop dribble that you do while using the shoot button. where its like a semi fake jumper move to a cross over. they took it out because it was overpowered and dribblers could go thru the defenders body while doing it. dont take it out. its a realistic move. leave it in. FIX THE DEFENSE. dont allow that move to go thru bodies. make the ball liver, make the defenders body liver. so that when you do that move and i'm already sitting on that shoulder daring you to come my way. and you do anyway. you should be punished with a charge, or loose the ball. or even get hurt. you are ramming into me if you think about it.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:56 am

@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


if you want more proof of this. look no further than NBA ELITE 11 and their control system. the left stick was your feet. the right stick was your hands. to me that was spot on and the most realistic control scheme EVER. it kept you from doing moves you did not wish to do(this is the problem with being able to cross over with the left stick on live 18 demo and all nba 2k's. and thats just dribbling. When you get into what nba elite 11 did with the shot, layups. with that round meter. was crazy realistic. it was super hard to shoot . but it gave you a lot of freedom of how to do your layups and at what angle would your arm be(you could go around a guy with your arm in this game..you could move the ball under someones arm in this game to score up under them. you could choose not just to shoot a bank but what part of the backboard to hit. how soft of a touch you wanted. how hard you wanted it to hit, etc. you could intentionally miss free throws softly to the left or right in hopes to get a board for a last second put back. but it was hard as heck to be consistent because it meant like in real life. you had to personally line up your arms. do you understand the level of stick skills you needed to pull that off? the amt of practice. but because of this. the casuals hated it. so it took until 2k17 for it to come back. like 6 years later. and the way 2k did it was a lot easier for people to use. it wasnt as so unforgiving but it also was less realistic and less responsive. but even then the casuals one the battle which is why you could hit with the shoot button as much as you could with the stick shooting later on in 2k17 after a few updates. But due to elite's freedom. you would see videos of people doing all sorts of stupid stuff that didnt look right. and people would blame that on live. not understanding, in real life you could try and dunk from the half court line. sure most wouldnt try it. but you do have the ability and freedom to try if you choose. no you wont make it and yes it will look silly. but thats still realistic. what they have to do with the logic is make sure there's two sides. not just the side that calls up the original animation. ok now what happens after you try to dunk from half court? you land and get called for travelling. and or you get hurt in the process. if players keep doing this and keep getting hit with those real life penalties. they will eventually top trying it.

but these devs can't wait. they get hit up by the casual fans who give them the most sells. more so than us heavy into basketball people. So you already know who they are going to listen to. my remedy for this is to make the most realistic game possible. and then give the casuals the ability to have casual sliders. making the shooting, dribbling, blocking, etc much easier.
Last edited by kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:05 am

The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.

That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.

The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.

What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.

you will always have this LOOK of realism.


Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.

This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.

I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.

I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:13 am

kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.

A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.

We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:17 am

Dee4Three wrote:The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.

That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.

The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.

What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.

you will always have this LOOK of realism.


Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.

This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.

I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.

I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
but thats not true either. the look of realism in certain aspects is not there in live yet. but the feel is. the look of realism is there in 2k and has been for a few installments. but the feel isnt. it can be fun to play. but you always know its lacking heavily in realism even when you come out on top on those funny plays where you know 2k rewarded for something you did not do.

You take off to dunk but you realize thats going to miss or get block but they give you the nice animation to make your defender not jump at all and duck.

you know how you make that realistic.

give me the defender the ability to always jump. early, late, etc. whatever happens happens. and if i choose to just stand there or duck, give me that option to. why would i duck instead of jump or just stand there? because if i dont duck. I might get kneed in the face. if that happens my guy can end up with a broken knows or eye injury.

^^I dare any of them to put that in the game. You do that and you will have both sides of why should i choose to use this over this. its risk, reward with everything you do in real basketball. the ducking is a protection thing in real life. its not just something to do just cause.

You want to keep rushing the hole with all those people in the paint? ok.. just remember there aint no guarantees that you wont land on someones foot and sprain your ankle. put that in the game too. obviously some guys are healthier than others. give guys who constantly dunk and snag boards with athleticism over position more knee injuries. (jumpers knee).

there's consequences to everything in reality. these things can be in the game. but as of now they're not. and they are not in there due to casual gamers not a lack of computer hardware/software capabilities.

You want to rush the rim with kyle korver over and over with all those guys in the paint. be my guest. he will come out of there with some type of injury. a prime dwade can get away with it. he's built for that style of play. but even he will take the punishment over time. just like some games allow your spaceships or cars to rust and get dusty like you've had it for awhile. your player can age due to how you play with him and how good his health was to begin with.

GO on ahead and use embid and do all those fancy post moves. and then get hurt mid game. because thats what would happen to him. lol. you dont even have to be super harsh about it and make it sit out. just make him play injured with reduced abilities. There's consequences.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:20 am

but these devs can't wait. they get hit up by the casual fans who give them the most sells. more so than us heavy into basketball people. So you already know who they are going to listen to. my remedy for this is to make the most realistic game possible. and then give the casuals the ability to have casual sliders. making the shooting, dribbling, blocking, etc much easier.


It's not about sliders, sliders don't fix those animations, those are programmed in. They need to make the most realistic game possible, and those sequences are the killer, they destroy the realism, that's the whole point.

I am not a casual gamer, I am hardcore into NBA video games and the NBA in general. It's not just casuals saying this, it's long time basketball video gamers. It's so obvious that the feel is wrong, we need to discourage it as much as possible. Not just saying it's trash, but providing examples and feedback (Which we have been). But they should absolutely have know that this feedback was going to be mostly negative about the demo, because you don't introduce a sports game in 2017 that moves like that, you just don't. You should know better, you should know right away.

We need to stick to giving them the videos, that feedback, telling them they can't produce that feel anymore, they will continue to not make progress and get crushed.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:24 am

kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.

That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.

The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.

What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.

you will always have this LOOK of realism.


Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.

This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.

I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.

I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
but thats not true either. the look of realism in certain aspects is not there in live yet. but the feel is. the look of realism is there in 2k and has been for a few installments. but the feel isnt. it can be fun to play. but you always know its lacking heavily in realism even when you come out on top on those funny plays where you know 2k rewarded for something you did not do.

You take off to dunk but you realize thats going to miss or get block but they give you the nice animation to make your defender not jump at all and duck.

you know how you make that realistic.

give me the defender the ability to always jump. early, late, etc. whatever happens happens. and if i choose to just stand there or duck, give me that option to. why would i duck instead of jump or just stand there? because if i dont duck. I might get kneed in the face. if that happens my guy can end up with a broken knows or eye injury.

^^I dare any of them to put that in the game. You do that and you will have both sides of why should i choose to use this over this. its risk, reward with everything you do in real basketball. the ducking is a protection thing in real life. its not just something to do just cause.

You want to keep rushing the hole with all those people in the paint? ok.. just remember there aint no guarantees that you wont land on someones foot and sprain your ankle. put that in the game too. obviously some guys are healthier than others. give guys who constantly dunk and snag boards with athleticism over position more knee injuries. (jumpers knee).

there's consequences to everything in reality. these things can be in the game. but as of now they're not. and they are not in there due to casual gamers not a lack of computer hardware/software capabilities.

You want to rush the rim with kyle korver over and over with all those guys in the paint. be my guest. he will come out of there with some type of injury. a prime dwade can get away with it. he's built for that style of play. but even he will take the punishment over time. just like some games allow your spaceships or cars to rust and get dusty like you've had it for awhile. your player can age due to how you play with him and how good his health was to begin with.

GO on ahead and use embid and do all those fancy post moves. and then get hurt mid game. because thats what would happen to him. lol. you dont even have to be super harsh about it and make it sit out. just make him play injured with reduced abilities. There's consequences.


Kingpnp, the feel is not there. You can say it is for you, but not to the vast majority, meaning that your word against the vast majority doesn't help sales, it gets squashed. The gameplay comments about the feel are by the thousands, most people feel the gameplay stinks. You continually going on about 2K will not help Live, period, it does nothing, because 2K is putting out that feel. It gets its fair share of complaints, but people buy it, period. People buy it also for the modes/new content/roster editing and sharing. You are right about a lot of your gameplay complaints about 2k, but that helps Live zero at this point.

They need to put out a game that feels good on first impression, that feels right. Period.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:26 am

Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.

A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.

We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.

dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.

When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.

dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.


Dee. you do realize that if you run inside the 3 point line but slightly close to it in 2k along the sideline. you will get sucked behind the 3 point line? this is something they've implented in 2k17. to keep people from going out of bounds trying to stand perfectly behind that sideline 3pt line. or to make sure they are behind the 3pt line and not shooting a 2pter. Thats not me in control. if i get to close to that line trying to curl wide then curl in. it will kill my move and force me to go behind the 3 pt line. thats not control at all.

Do you know that if you're playing defense (5 people vs 5 people) and your man runs in the paint. but lets say you're running a zone as a team. the moment the arrow pops up for your to defend your man. it will pull you slightly towards the paint where he is. thats not control. thats the game doing that for me. i didnt ask for that help. now you just got my team lit up for a 3 because it pulled me in. the team cant see that. they thought i ran to the whole to help out. I didnt.

^^^this happens EVERY SINGLE TIME I PLAY. do you know how i stop that defensive animation? I have to enact another animation of my own(the charge animation). it overrides the pull in glitch. Remember above when i talked about play makers trying to get you to fall even if you're not moving side to side with them? what stops the falling animation is for you to stand still and hold the charge button. but thats not realistic. i shouldnt have to do that.
Last edited by kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:34 am

kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.

A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.

We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.

dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.

When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.

dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.


I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.

I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:37 am

Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.

A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.

We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.

dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.

When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.

dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.


I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.

I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.

Dee..re-read my above post. i edited it before you replied. That is the kind of stuff I'm dealing with every single game i play in 2k. not some times. not a little bit. not every now and then. but every single game.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:39 am

People literally go onto youtube, and type "NBA Live 18 Gameplay", they take a look at the video, and the majority go "Live is still trash", they havn't even touched it. And the ones who do (The majority), put it down fast and say it doesn't feel right. But literally watching a player go into those robotic animations is an instant sales killer, people won't buy it just based on watching a minute of gameplay video. That is exactly what we need to be addressing, that's such a big sales killer.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:42 am

Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.

That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.

The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.

What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.

you will always have this LOOK of realism.


Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.

This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.

I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.

I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
but thats not true either. the look of realism in certain aspects is not there in live yet. but the feel is. the look of realism is there in 2k and has been for a few installments. but the feel isnt. it can be fun to play. but you always know its lacking heavily in realism even when you come out on top on those funny plays where you know 2k rewarded for something you did not do.

You take off to dunk but you realize thats going to miss or get block but they give you the nice animation to make your defender not jump at all and duck.

you know how you make that realistic.

give me the defender the ability to always jump. early, late, etc. whatever happens happens. and if i choose to just stand there or duck, give me that option to. why would i duck instead of jump or just stand there? because if i dont duck. I might get kneed in the face. if that happens my guy can end up with a broken knows or eye injury.

^^I dare any of them to put that in the game. You do that and you will have both sides of why should i choose to use this over this. its risk, reward with everything you do in real basketball. the ducking is a protection thing in real life. its not just something to do just cause.

You want to keep rushing the hole with all those people in the paint? ok.. just remember there aint no guarantees that you wont land on someones foot and sprain your ankle. put that in the game too. obviously some guys are healthier than others. give guys who constantly dunk and snag boards with athleticism over position more knee injuries. (jumpers knee).

there's consequences to everything in reality. these things can be in the game. but as of now they're not. and they are not in there due to casual gamers not a lack of computer hardware/software capabilities.

You want to rush the rim with kyle korver over and over with all those guys in the paint. be my guest. he will come out of there with some type of injury. a prime dwade can get away with it. he's built for that style of play. but even he will take the punishment over time. just like some games allow your spaceships or cars to rust and get dusty like you've had it for awhile. your player can age due to how you play with him and how good his health was to begin with.

GO on ahead and use embid and do all those fancy post moves. and then get hurt mid game. because thats what would happen to him. lol. you dont even have to be super harsh about it and make it sit out. just make him play injured with reduced abilities. There's consequences.


Kingpnp, the feel is not there. You can say it is for you, but not to the vast majority, meaning that your word against the vast majority doesn't help sales, it gets squashed. The gameplay comments about the feel are by the thousands, most people feel the gameplay stinks. You continually going on about 2K will not help Live, period, it does nothing, because 2K is putting out that feel. It gets its fair share of complaints, but people buy it, period. People buy it also for the modes/new content/roster editing and sharing. You are right about a lot of your gameplay complaints about 2k, but that helps Live zero at this point.

They need to put out a game that feels good on first impression, that feels right. Period.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:43 am

kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.

A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.

We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.

dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.

When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.

dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.


I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.

I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.

Dee..re-read my above post. i edited it before you replied. That is the kind of stuff I'm dealing with every single game i play in 2k. not some times. not a little bit. not every now and then. but every single game.


Have you seen my long thread about the gameplay issues with 2K? Others here have, I know that. I went into them hard for everything that you have mentioned, stuff that happens every game. We agree!!!!!!

That's not helping Live, period. We are talking about what Live needs to do to get back on the map, the stuff I have repeated over and over. I am not biased, I agree with the gameplay gripes about 2k, but I also see why it sells and the gameplay advantages. I see why people upon first glance and touch choose 2k 9 times out of 10.

That's what we need to iron out with EA Sports, we need to get them to see that the look and feel need to be changed to be smoother, to feel right. That's what we need to do.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:49 am

Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three

I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.


I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.

A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.

We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.

dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.

When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.

dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.


I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.

I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.

Dee..re-read my above post. i edited it before you replied. That is the kind of stuff I'm dealing with every single game i play in 2k. not some times. not a little bit. not every now and then. but every single game.


Have you seen my long thread about the gameplay issues with 2K? Others here have, I know that. I went into them hard for everything that you have mentioned, stuff that happens every game. We agree!!!!!!

That's not helping Live, period. We are talking about what Live needs to do to get back on the map, the stuff I have repeated over and over. I am not biased, I agree with the gameplay gripes about 2k, but I also see why it sells and the gameplay advantages. I see why people upon first glance and touch choose 2k 9 times out of 10.

That's what we need to iron out with EA Sports, we need to get them to see that the look and feel need to be changed to be smoother, to feel right. That's what we need to do.

actually all of us are now biased because all we have played for the past 7+years in nba 2k. Thats all we know for the most part. 2k has been the better game for a long time. that can't even be debated at this point. this makes us biased, some more than others.

What i'm telling you is what live is trying to do with less canned animations or non at all. is going to be much harder to pull off and still look visually appealing. there is a reason why 2k chooses to suck you into animations all the time. thats because they know how hard it is to pull off what live has been trying to pull off since NBA ELITE. now this doesnt excuse them for some of the basics like guys going thru people. cut that out today. lol. like right now. fix the catch and shoot(what you were talking about). but a lot of that other stuff is going to be hell to pull off and still be visually appealing. and we all know odds are the live team is not as large as say their FIFA team. the live team probably still does not have the same amt of resources and finances put into the game since it isnt making any $$$. You have the visually appealing game way ahead with a better team setup on the dev side and more money aimed towards 2k because they sell a lot. while you have live trying to be innovative with free movement. if they copied off of 2k and said forget it lets go with the canned animations. they would lose too. because there would be no reason to purchase 2 games that play exactly the same way. why play the new one when this old one gets the job done already.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:52 am

Dee4Three wrote:People literally go onto youtube, and type "NBA Live 18 Gameplay", they take a look at the video, and the majority go "Live is still trash", they havn't even touched it. And the ones who do (The majority), put it down fast and say it doesn't feel right. But literally watching a player go into those robotic animations is an instant sales killer, people won't buy it just based on watching a minute of gameplay video. That is exactly what we need to be addressing, that's such a big sales killer.

you just admitted to what i've been trying to tell you what you're actually saying.

its visuals. most of these people are not playing it. and the ones who are, were looking for a more visually appealing experience. that trumps the actual gameplay or the fact that you have more freedom. you ever hear about the 1080p 60 frames per second wars that were going on between xbox vs ps4 fanboys?

its the same thing. Ask me if i really care if i'm getting 1080 at 60 if the game play is lacking? my answer is no.

ask me if i will buy a game where i really like the game play even if its at 930p at 30 fps? the answer is yes. but if you ask a lot of people they will say NO. some people(a lot of people) are really hung up on look over actual FEEL. so they equate LOOK to FEEL. its not the same thing. with all that said. i still agree with you on some of these game breaking issues
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:55 am

I didn't admit anything, what? I said it feels better and looks better. Don't fib to help your side.

This is me after 2K17 was patched (Horribly I might add)

Beyond Frustrated with NBA 2k17 - Anybody??!

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:10 pm

Does anybody else think that all these patches (I play on PC) has crippled the game? When it first came out, it felt mostly different than 2k16, but now it feels very much the same. I am really frustrated with all the body steals/body blocks, Unrealistic forced fouls, strange defensive animations where everybody seems to be losing their guy (Its horrible, the defense is absurd in this game), the unrealistic pace, the unrealistic bumping, protected shots when nobody is really in your space.

I'm pretty fed up, and it has interfered with my modding as well, just because I'm so frustrated with the game.

The gameplay patching elements DO NOT HELP, they are garbage. I am starting to wonder if the 2k dev team (who work on the animations/gameplay) understand the game of basketball fully. You can't possibly see the defense played on any possession and call it realistic, you can't possibly see these wild protected shots and think they are realistic, you can't possibly see all the excessive bumping (animation stopped for like 2 seconds) as realistic, you can't possibly think that after calling a play, it taking like 8-10 seconds for the players to start actually running it is realistic, you cant possibly think the ball yo-yoing in front of a player when his progress is impeded is realistic, you can't possibly think all these easy body steals and body blocks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the CPU double teams that leave people WIDE OPEN for layups all the time is realistic, you can't possibly think the running a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 fastbreak in this game is realistic (your CPU player will fade out to the three almost every time instead of going in for the layup), you cant possibly think that these slow motion layups/dunks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the deathly slow spin moves and other moves are realistic (NOBODY moves even close to that slow in real life, in fact its impossible), you cant possibly think giving Nick Van Exel Shawn Marions free throw is realistic, You cant possibly think that copying all of Lebrons Signatures to Jr Rider is realistic, you can't possibly think that centers/PF's during a sim season get like 5 assists and 2 steals in 82 games is realistic, you can't possibly think that making the same mistake giving Charles Smiths portrait to Matt Bullard is realistic, you can't possibly think giving Walt Williams Adrian Griffins Portrait is realistic.

The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of any sports game, is the flow. That is flows like real life. The pace. Atleast when playing NBA 2k9, NBA 2k11, NBA 2k13 and NBA 2k14, we had the realistic pace of the NBA. The players looked and played like athletes. Overall, the defense was sound, overall, the players moved up and down the court at a realistic pace. Everything that I have said above ruins THE FLOW of the game. Players celebrating after a made hoop (can't get them out of the animation) for like 5-6 seconds while the player they are defending goes all the way up the court for an easy score (because nobody helps obviously). Ive had this happen to me MANY times, especially at the end of games when a big shot is made (Because the players celebrates after). You call that realistic 2k? If that happens ONCE it can completely ruin a game for the user. Now put that together with all of the other frustrations I mentioned above.

I am actually really hoping NBA LIVE puts out a realistic product for NBA LIVE 18. I am beyond frustrated.

Any 2k dev team (who makes decisions on the gameplay) want to come on here and tell us what the hell is going on? Every single thing I mention above (and some I left out), happen every single game to completely butcher the experience. I doubt someone from 2k DEV would come on the forums to address this. But all of those things about dramatically impact the flow (minus the simming stats issue). I don't want to hear that the system can only do certain things. You have proven in the past the system certainly can make a realistic flow, realistic basketball sim. This is NOT realistic by any means. I take a pull up with CJ McCollum, and my defender is a couple feet off me, and he goes into a protected shot that doesn't even hit rim. WHAT? NBA Players make those shots ALL THE TIME, nvm CJ McCollum being a very good shooter. This happens all the time during games.

I could go on and on. I am hoping others get upset like I am, maybe if enough of us talk about it and complain, a difference can be made. I want to point out, Is stood up for this game when it first came out. The game feels completely broken now.


The game felt much better right at release, MUCH better. The patches killed the game. I make good videos now, that show improved gameplay... because I am using an .exe from before the game was heavily patched. It saved the game for me. Look at all the things I'm mentioning, sound familiar?

We are not talking about that, we are talking about what is holding Live back, period. And I stand by what I said, upon first feel and view, the majority of the population thinks it doesn't feel or look right. That needs to change.

I am buying BOTH GAMES, I have since NBA LIVE 14. I am not taking sides. I am saying the reasons 2k sells, and why Live isn't. That's it. Stop talking about the 2K gameplay like it will help Live, the stuff I said about whats holding Live back are complete facts. It's the feel, look, and lack of modes/roster editing. The first impression stinks.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby matmat66 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:53 am

A basketball game should sell based on its own merits. You cannot say buy NBA Live because NBA 2K is bad or vice versa. If the developers want people to buy NBA Live, they should give us a good product. Sadly, that is still not the case at this point. The basic feature of being able to save roster is still not here. This feature has been available even in the Sega Genesis era! The consoles are now PS4 and Xbox One and they cannot put this simple feature in? But, as I previously said, I will still buy NBA Live like I have done in the past just to address the game fatigue with the other game.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby The X on Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:36 am

I think the CPU AI seems smarter. LBJ a lot tougher than in 2K to stop. You've got to pick your poison. Help on LBJ drives & give up 3's.

I like that the CPU seems to hit the open man with passes & also launch shots if you lag.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:42 am

Another update has gone live. Haven't had a chance to check it out and I'm heading out for the day shortly, so I'll probably some more impressions tomorrow.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:12 pm

Andrew wrote:Another update has gone live. Haven't had a chance to check it out and I'm heading out for the day shortly, so I'll probably some more impressions tomorrow.


I don't see it on Xbox One, mine still says 8/15 last updated
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Apparently they've cleaned up some of the shooting animations. This was posted on OS today.

phpBB [video]
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:45 pm

ThaLiveKing wrote:Apparently they've cleaned up some of the shooting animations. This was posted on OS today.

phpBB [video]


I havn't had a chance to try it, but that looks better!

I'm on X1, let me know if the update goes through.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:07 pm

The X wrote:I think the CPU AI seems smarter. LBJ a lot tougher than in 2K to stop. You've got to pick your poison. Help on LBJ drives & give up 3's.

I like that the CPU seems to hit the open man with passes & also launch shots if you lag.

And that's real basketball. I don't care if it looks exactly like real basketball I want it to play like it. Exploiting mismatches, swinging the ball and getting rewarded for taking open jumpers.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dez on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:15 pm

Talking about the "feel" of Live, the movements aren't smooth in the slightest and the responsiveness in the controls is sorely lacking.

Anyone saying you have full control is kidding themselves.

Don't get me wrong it's still fun but there's nothing smooth about it.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:52 pm

Dez wrote:Talking about the "feel" of Live, the movements aren't smooth in the slightest and the responsiveness in the controls is sorely lacking.

Anyone saying you have full control is kidding themselves.

Don't get me wrong it's still fun but there's nothing smooth about it.


They'll get there though, they got Live 16 to play pretty smooth despite some of the BS animations in the game.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dez on Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:26 pm

This face scan thing is infuriating me.

I finally got a face scan on the app and it says it'll be available when I next create a player.

I go to edit my player and it says downloading scan but then goes back to the normal icon that tells you to download the app.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:36 pm

Just played for an hour, no changes. Feels exactly the same.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:40 pm

So I got the update, and I think ThaLiveKing may be right.

While the animations on shots are not completely fixed, some of them do feel better. Stepping into shots seems to have improved. I enjoyed pulling up with Kyrie.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:03 pm

Update:

Played for a couple more hours tonight. Takeaways..

- Shooting on the move hasn't really changed, I was wrong, feels choppy and unnatural

- Offensive rebounds on free throws are way overpowered. Almost 80% of the time Thompson or Pachulia will get an offensive board off of a free throw (most of the time for a tip dunk)

- Driving animations happen far too often whether you want them to or not. For example, numerous times I caught the ball 13-17 feet from the basket. Instead of being allowed to pull up, I was sent into a driving animation to the hoop. Once in that animation, trying to pass out without a turnover is almost impossible.

- Players animations move far too fast at random times. For example, I could pass it to the wing (swing the ball), and there is plenty of space for the pass to make it. Suddenly, Kevin Love will have an incredible burst of speed and get the steal in the passing lane, this happens alot on this game, including on outlet passes.

- Driving into the middle of the lane to pullup for a mid range jumper is almost impossible sometimes, because you will push the shoot button in the near the free throw line (on either free throw elbow or right in the middle) and your player is forced into a drive into the hoop.

- There seems to be no difference in your defenders abilities. Kevin Love is grabbing blocks constantly right out of the air, like he is Bill Russell. Everybody seems to have the ability to snatched blocks straight out of the air, on any possession. (I only play on Superstar by the way).

- The post game is hurting because of the games animation system. Like my video with the Tristan Thompson hookshot, the moves are slowed down to a crawl because of the players animations.

- Defense isn't as solid as I thought. Numerous times a defender would just be standing there on the court (seems to be Durant or Lebron most of the time). You will see what I mean in that critiquing video I made. I put the highlight in the good section, but I went back and watched again, and it's what I've been experiencing a lot. Sometimes, it seems like the defender completely stops reacting to anything. He just stands there.

- Rebounding has some really strange moments, play a few games and watch the players in the paint. Literally not reacting to the ball whatsoever. Kevin Love was just letting the ball fall to Pachulia and he was in front of him (inside position). Didn't put his arms up, didn't react at all. It was happening a lot.

- The speed feels broken, bursts happen randomly at strange times when you are dribbling. I feel like I have little control over the action on the court. The play feels hectic and all over the place.

You do not have more control in this game. I am forced into animations all the time that I don't want. Players are not playing even close to like themselves, Kevin Love's speed and athletic ability (his incredibly bursts and blocks) feels very arcade like. I feel like I'm going from Top Spin 4 to Virtua Tennis. Pachulias ability to fly around the basket, athletic layups, ripping blocks out of the air, looks silly. Same with Tristan Thompson doing the same things.

Just being honest here guys, Live has a long way to go.

I've now put over 20 hours into the demo (on court action).
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Izzy Snow on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:44 pm

Would like to switch gears here for a moment. While I'm sure the devs appreciate the feedback, I'm sure they'd like to see the positives which there are plenty of in this game as well. Here are 3 clips I posted on my channel yesterday. Played these at default sliders on all-star difficulty.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:23 pm

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Izzy Snow on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:52 am

Andrew wrote:For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.


It's so easy to get caught up in dissecting the game too much. I've been there. I'm trying to just enjoy the game which I am but if I notice something, good or bad, that I feel is worth showing or discussing then I will. With that said, I'm seriously considering taking off 9/15 since it's Friday. Would be nice to play this game all day while the kids are at school :cheeky:
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:54 am

Andrew wrote:For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.


Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Izzy Snow on Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:09 am

Dee4Three wrote:
Andrew wrote:For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.


Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.


I respectfully disagree with the game having a long way to go. I think now they are truly in the right direction. I believe the game will sell well now that it's being promoted by more popular YT''ers and with that, I hope that the dev team can get more help so that more focus can be placed on modes and a separate team can focus on fine tuning the animations/gameplay. Maybe even with patches throughout the year, Live 18 can be a really solid game gameplay wise and by Live 19, we can see an even much more improved game. I hope they make the transition to Frostbite engine.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:28 am

Izzy Snow wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
Andrew wrote:For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.


Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.


I respectfully disagree with the game having a long way to go. I think now they are truly in the right direction. I believe the game will sell well now that it's being promoted by more popular YT''ers and with that, I hope that the dev team can get more help so that more focus can be placed on modes and a separate team can focus on fine tuning the animations/gameplay. Maybe even with patches throughout the year, Live 18 can be a really solid game gameplay wise and by Live 19, we can see an even much more improved game. I hope they make the transition to Frostbite engine.


I like your optimism, and we will see. I hope they do make a splash.

I hope they dedicate time to the issues we are presenting and fix them, maybe even some of them before release.

I want Live to do well.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 am

Dee4Three wrote:
Andrew wrote:For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.


Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.


Absolutely. I wasn't directing that at anyone, just reiterating that we should keep discussing the game and collecting feedback as we've been doing. Participation has been good so far.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:33 am

Andrew wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
Andrew wrote:For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.


Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.


Absolutely. I wasn't directing that at anyone, just reiterating that we should keep discussing the game and collecting feedback as we've been doing. Participation has been good so far.


Agreed.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby cavs4872 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:45 am

There is potential here; I am dying to know what this game feels like with considerably less input lag.

Game feels best on 100 speed.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby StyxTx on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:03 pm

Are these all the hairstyles? The only long hair for a white person are the ones in a bun? I don't do the bun thing. Mine is more like Scola's but I don't see anything like that.

Anyway, I've done the demo. It was ok, but I was still able to score way too easy inside even though I have a playmaking PG with a rather poor inside shooting rating.

I saw someone says it plays best with the speed set on 100. I was playing on 80 and it seemed rather slow.

I am glad to see we can choose the type of pass to throw.

Also, there were barely any fouls called. One of the things I hoped for after the previous version was a good increase in fouls. There were not nearly enough last version.

I haven't read anything regarding injuries during played out games.

I definitely like the way we upgrade our players in Live a lot better than in 2k.

Overall, it wasn't bad but it wasn't great. Average I'd say. To be honest, I haven't called 2k anything as good as average for a few years so, right now, if I were to buy one it would be Live. 2k has not released any information at all about game play, or if the issues have been addressed but I don't really trust them anymore because of the way they patch the game so often, making it worse as they do. It always ends off being something I didn't pay for and wouldn't have paid for if it had been released in the condition it ends off being.

It's possible I'd buy Live it if the fouls are improved, injuries can occur to my teammates and me in played out games and the inside game is better than what the demo shows.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:12 pm

lol I thought they had more hairstyle options before, but I could be wrong

I played some more last night and played another Play Now game, this time on Pro not All-Star. Now that I know how to play the game, it was much easier to play and wound up beating the Cavs by 20 instead of the other way around. Will see what happens when I put it back to all-star
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:29 pm

One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:55 am

Andrew wrote:One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.


This is where they need to take a page out of NHL's book. The customization is up there with 2K, they just need a face scan
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Izzy Snow on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 am

I like your optimism, and we will see. I hope they do make a splash.

I hope they dedicate time to the issues we are presenting and fix them, maybe even some of them before release.

I want Live to do well.[/quote]

We all want Live to do well. We're basketball gamers in a basketball gaming website.

As for my optimism, I can tell you what's different with 2017 and 2015. When Live 15 released and they removed certain gameplay capabilities like the ability to do lob, bounce and lead pass, I complained and brought to the devs attention many many times. Fast forward to Live 16 and they still didn't add it back. During my time with the NBALiveStreamTeam when I was heavy on Twitter and provided a ton of feedback to the devs, I'm now seeing those suggestions and things I complained about finally addressed. Even suggestions I made like adding the WNBA will be in the game!

I participated in a two week long survey with EA. During those two weeks I had to spend time playing both 2K16 and Live 16. I mentioned to them many times that they need, not to steal, but take back some of the gameplay abilities that 2K clearly copied from them. I even said take some ideas from 2K as well while still keeping their game different enough. One example, one of my main issues with Live was the lack of a post game. We're now seeing a much improved post game and the even took a page from 2K where you hold the Left Trigger or L2 button to go into a post position.

I acknowledge that the animation isn't on par with 2K and who knows if it will ever be. I've mentioned before that there should be a balance between control and animations and while Live isn't perfect, it's done a better job with it in Live 18 and it's one of the reasons why I'm optimistic for the series. Live 18 isn't even out yet but I'm already excited to see what EA has in store for Live 19.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:50 am

We all want Live to do well. We're basketball gamers in a basketball gaming website.


Not entirely true. Plenty of people enjoy the practice of complaining about Live, about praising 2K, even stating "I hope Live continues to show how poor they are in the basketball gaming genre", or "I hope 2K gets the NFL license back so they can crush EA so Madden will fail". I think a lot of people like seeing a company they don't like fail, fail again, and fail some more. What I am saying is: While I think EA should be further along now with Live, I do not want them to fail. I want them to succeed, I want 2K to have good competition.

Animation fixes, input lag fix (When we hit a button, the time it takes before the player does his action), and players like Love/Pachulia not flying around the basket like athletic guards mixed with dominant big men, and I think gameplay wise they will be in business. Combine that with Roster Editing for Live 19, and I do believe they will make a splash.
Last edited by Dee4Three on Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:57 am

matmat66 wrote:A basketball game should sell based on its own merits. You cannot say buy NBA Live because NBA 2K is bad or vice versa. If the developers want people to buy NBA Live, they should give us a good product. Sadly, that is still not the case at this point. The basic feature of being able to save roster is still not here. This feature has been available even in the Sega Genesis era! The consoles are now PS4 and Xbox One and they cannot put this simple feature in? But, as I previously said, I will still buy NBA Live like I have done in the past just to address the game fatigue with the other game.


mat, no one said buy nba live because 2k sucks. no one said buy 2k because nba live sucks.

I'm saying 2k in all its goodness is by far the most frustrating sports game to date. I have never in life been this frustrated with a sports game. Thats because its heavy into over produced multiple player canned animations. they do that to make the game VISUALLY more appealing. But it hurts the actual FEEL of the person controlling the defender or the guy with or without the ball. NBA LIVE does not have that problem. They have a visuals problem.

2k and live have problems both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. If you're like me, you will always have an issue with 2k even though you like it. because they wont let go off all those 2 player canned animations. every year they swear you can break out of the single player animations you may trigger. than you find out thats not really true. they lie and say there are no 2 player canned animations. then you find out that was just a flat out lie. this is every year they say this. I heard they are saying it again for 2k18.. I hope this time they are not lying. if they are telling the truth...2k18 will be the best basketball game ever made without discussion. and it would make me happy and less frustrated when playing 2k's basketball games.

if they dont do it and its just more of the same. I will be hoping upon hope that nba live will get their graphics/animations together to look more appealing because the feel and freedom is already in the game.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:30 am

kingpnp wrote:
matmat66 wrote:A basketball game should sell based on its own merits. You cannot say buy NBA Live because NBA 2K is bad or vice versa. If the developers want people to buy NBA Live, they should give us a good product. Sadly, that is still not the case at this point. The basic feature of being able to save roster is still not here. This feature has been available even in the Sega Genesis era! The consoles are now PS4 and Xbox One and they cannot put this simple feature in? But, as I previously said, I will still buy NBA Live like I have done in the past just to address the game fatigue with the other game.


mat, no one said buy nba live because 2k sucks. no one said buy 2k because nba live sucks.

I'm saying 2k in all its goodness is by far the most frustrating sports game to date. I have never in life been this frustrated with a sports game. Thats because its heavy into over produced multiple player canned animations. they do that to make the game VISUALLY more appealing. But it hurts the actual FEEL of the person controlling the defender or the guy with or without the ball. NBA LIVE does not have that problem. They have a visuals problem.

2k and live have problems both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. If you're like me, you will always have an issue with 2k even though you like it. because they wont let go off all those 2 player canned animations. every year they swear you can break out of the single player animations you may trigger. than you find out thats not really true. they lie and say there are no 2 player canned animations. then you find out that was just a flat out lie. this is every year they say this. I heard they are saying it again for 2k18.. I hope this time they are not lying. if they are telling the truth...2k18 will be the best basketball game ever made without discussion. and it would make me happy and less frustrated when playing 2k's basketball games.

if they dont do it and its just more of the same. I will be hoping upon hope that nba live will get their graphics/animations together to look more appealing because the feel and freedom is already in the game.


This is entirely your opinion about Live and feel. To a good majority of the masses it has a feel problem, big time. Including MANY comments about the animations, the input lag, etc. Choppy animations impact the feel (like my example of a defender easily getting back because the offensive player is going through many transitions just to take a simple shot). The input lag impacts the feel a lot as well. People complain about the feel of the players dribbling up the floor (The random animations and strange speed changes), people complain about the choppy feel of the post game. That's feel. Not only is it not visually appealingto a lot of people, it doesn't have the feel either.

Also, the goal is to sell more games as well. And if it's visually choppy looking, visually arcade like, visually not appealing, they won't make as many sales, meaning more people won't even get hands on the actual game to try the gameplay.

You are sugarcoating it, the feel, the gameplay is what people complain about as well as the visuals, including myself. It's clearly not just a visual problem.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:52 am

You think these people will buy? Or give the game a chance? No. The problem is not just the feel that people talk about, it's the visuals as well. The way the players move around the court. You can't get more people to try the game, if people think the gameplay looks out of whack and wont even buy the game or try the demo. People are viewing this game on youtube by the thousands, and a good majority are turned off because of the way the gameplay looks.

"This gameplay look jus like that it came from Nba Live Mobile app i downloaded"

"Thats why EA wont let 2k make a football game. THEY KNOW 2K GOING TO MAKE MADDEN LOOK TRASH LIKE THIS!!"

"Lol it looks like it plays like an arcade game"

"You lame ass Live fanboys need to stop defending this piece of shit game. It's shitty!"

"2 years and this is what they came up with?"

"Body models, movement, gameplay all looks like SHIT. I can't believe EA still can't get it together, just give up....honestly"

"You are so damn right.the movement body models...remind me of fifa 17,its the same awful shit omfgg cant believe how bad ea are"

"haha look shit , its look like playing phone graphics :D"

"This gameplay is always stiff when is it going to play and feel fluid like 2k?"

"Even if this game was $5 I'm still not buying it. Why would I spend time playing a shitty ass game?"

"I wouldnt play this shit for free"

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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby StyxTx on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:58 am

Andrew wrote:One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.


You're right. What gives with that?
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:36 pm

One thing I'll put out there as we continue to share our impressions and discuss them with each other: to a point, the feel of the game is subjective. What feels fine to one person, or at least a marked improvement, may be a disappointment to someone else. Both people have a point, and reasons as to why they feel the way that they do. Let's not fall into the trap of dismissing each other's point of view as mere opinion, while stating our own take as fact. Let's also refrain from fallacious reasoning, such as appealing to authority/popularity.

Again, it's been a pretty good discussion so far, but I can see us starting to head down the path of insisting there's only one correct opinion, when both sides have a valid point and valid reasoning behind the impressions they're sharing. Let's not get bogged down with that, as it ultimately derails the discussion, and gets in the way of giving good feedback, which as always is something we have a chance to do here.

Dee4Three wrote:"This gameplay look jus like that it came from Nba Live Mobile app i downloaded"

"Thats why EA wont let 2k make a football game. THEY KNOW 2K GOING TO MAKE MADDEN LOOK TRASH LIKE THIS!!"

"Lol it looks like it plays like an arcade game"

"You lame ass Live fanboys need to stop defending this piece of shit game. It's shitty!"

"2 years and this is what they came up with?"

"Body models, movement, gameplay all looks like SHIT. I can't believe EA still can't get it together, just give up....honestly"

"You are so damn right.the movement body models...remind me of fifa 17,its the same awful shit omfgg cant believe how bad ea are"

"haha look shit , its look like playing phone graphics :D"

"This gameplay is always stiff when is it going to play and feel fluid like 2k?"

"Even if this game was $5 I'm still not buying it. Why would I spend time playing a shitty ass game?"

"I wouldnt play this shit for free"



That's a fair point about first impressions mattering, especially when you're trying to win back the crowd, but let's not pretend that any of that comes close to being nuanced, intelligent, or unbiased critique. It's little more than tired buzzwords and rhetoric, profanity, and Internet slang, from people who, in all likelihood, would sneer at NBA Live even if it somehow magically got on par with NBA 2K overnight. That approach lessens the credibility of the criticism, or at the very least, it's usefulness.

That's not to say there aren't legitimate criticisms of the demo, because there obviously are. A few of those commenters have kind of scratched the surface of them - perhaps accidentally, in some cases - but let's not give too much credit to kids thinking that they've achieved the height of wittiness with remarks like that, or rather more unfortunately, adults who are still unable to express intelligent or thoughtful critique, and likewise resort to expressing themselves in such a manner. We can critique the demo and basketball games in general far better than that, and we have been doing so thus far in this very topic. There's no need to give credibility to individuals who can't offer up criticism that's any more profound than "lololololo itz fucken shit kys ea omfgggg plz plz plz lololool lmafaoooso!1!".

StyxTx wrote:
Andrew wrote:One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.


You're right. What gives with that?


It's odd, and frustrating. Even if there's no option to pick style and colour as two independent options, providing each hair and facial hair style in all available colours would be a viable solution. There also needs to be an option to change or correct eye colour, especially with the app messing that up for a lot of people.
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