Dee4Three wrote:Look at the smoothness of animations from 2K17 in this video I made (I'm using the Lakers here). When someone picks the controller up, they have that flow. The game has it's issues gameplay wise, but for a first impression, it's smooth. You will see step back animations in here *(kobe after a spin into the lane), nice fadeaway animations, wide dribbles (Pronounced dribbling), etc. The way the players dunk is more realistic (less dunking from a complete stand still), it feels better.
Perfect example of how it looks and feels shooting on the move is the Wade jumper at 8:12. Having that feel and look makes a huge difference.
We are talking about what makes people not buy, this isn't saying 2k didn't have gameplay issues. It's saying that Live hurts themselves in a major way with that first impression. The way the players dribble up the floor (In animations that are random, and they look a little crazy when pushing it hard), the way they set feet to shoot a shot, the way they shoot on the move, etc.
you will always have this LOOK of realism.
kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three
I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.
but thats not true either. the look of realism in certain aspects is not there in live yet. but the feel is. the look of realism is there in 2k and has been for a few installments. but the feel isnt. it can be fun to play. but you always know its lacking heavily in realism even when you come out on top on those funny plays where you know 2k rewarded for something you did not do.Dee4Three wrote:The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.
That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.
The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.
What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.you will always have this LOOK of realism.
Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.
This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.
I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.
I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
but these devs can't wait. they get hit up by the casual fans who give them the most sells. more so than us heavy into basketball people. So you already know who they are going to listen to. my remedy for this is to make the most realistic game possible. and then give the casuals the ability to have casual sliders. making the shooting, dribbling, blocking, etc much easier.
kingpnp wrote:but thats not true either. the look of realism in certain aspects is not there in live yet. but the feel is. the look of realism is there in 2k and has been for a few installments. but the feel isnt. it can be fun to play. but you always know its lacking heavily in realism even when you come out on top on those funny plays where you know 2k rewarded for something you did not do.Dee4Three wrote:The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.
That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.
The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.
What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.you will always have this LOOK of realism.
Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.
This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.
I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.
I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
You take off to dunk but you realize thats going to miss or get block but they give you the nice animation to make your defender not jump at all and duck.
you know how you make that realistic.
give me the defender the ability to always jump. early, late, etc. whatever happens happens. and if i choose to just stand there or duck, give me that option to. why would i duck instead of jump or just stand there? because if i dont duck. I might get kneed in the face. if that happens my guy can end up with a broken knows or eye injury.
^^I dare any of them to put that in the game. You do that and you will have both sides of why should i choose to use this over this. its risk, reward with everything you do in real basketball. the ducking is a protection thing in real life. its not just something to do just cause.
You want to keep rushing the hole with all those people in the paint? ok.. just remember there aint no guarantees that you wont land on someones foot and sprain your ankle. put that in the game too. obviously some guys are healthier than others. give guys who constantly dunk and snag boards with athleticism over position more knee injuries. (jumpers knee).
there's consequences to everything in reality. these things can be in the game. but as of now they're not. and they are not in there due to casual gamers not a lack of computer hardware/software capabilities.
You want to rush the rim with kyle korver over and over with all those guys in the paint. be my guest. he will come out of there with some type of injury. a prime dwade can get away with it. he's built for that style of play. but even he will take the punishment over time. just like some games allow your spaceships or cars to rust and get dusty like you've had it for awhile. your player can age due to how you play with him and how good his health was to begin with.
GO on ahead and use embid and do all those fancy post moves. and then get hurt mid game. because thats what would happen to him. lol. you dont even have to be super harsh about it and make it sit out. just make him play injured with reduced abilities. There's consequences.
Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three
I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.
I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.
A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.
We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.
kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three
I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.
I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.
A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.
We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.
dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.
When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.
dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.
Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three
I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.
I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.
A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.
We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.
dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.
When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.
dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.
I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.
I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.
Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:but thats not true either. the look of realism in certain aspects is not there in live yet. but the feel is. the look of realism is there in 2k and has been for a few installments. but the feel isnt. it can be fun to play. but you always know its lacking heavily in realism even when you come out on top on those funny plays where you know 2k rewarded for something you did not do.Dee4Three wrote:The feel is smoother, cleaner, a much better first impression. Look at all the comments everywhere about Live's animations, about the feel of the game.
That is the point I am making, like my point a few posts ago about the average player. You can scream all day about what you don't like about 2K, and you can support Live all day, but that 99% who picks up the game, and puts it right back down, is why the sales are not good. It's been that way for years.
The feel, the lack of modes, roster editing/sharing, etc.
What you are saying will do 0 to stop people from, buying 2k, because overall people feel that its smoother, that it has that feel.you will always have this LOOK of realism.
Yes, exactly. It has the look of realism with a perform a move, exactly. Not always, but more often. And, first impression is a lot better because of that look of realism. Live is putting itself in the same bag as 2K, a Simulation, a realistic NBA experience.
This is coming from somebody who is buying the game btw, I am buying it and will play it. But I'm 1 in 100, 1 in a thousand even, who will buy the game even though I particularly am not fond of it. Most people buy one basketball video game, and Live will not be the choice for the majority again this year.
I've mentioned all of the issues in 2K, you mentioned them as well above. But that is not stating what is holding Live back, if you keep going back to that and getting frustrated with that, you won't get anywhere. Lets get the kinks out of Live (Hopefully), get that first impression better, keep on them about fixes to smooth it out, that is what we should do.
I showed the 2k video to show the examples of smooth moving shots, smooth movements into shots, smooth transitions. It was relevant based on my stance. The look of realism and feel is just not there right now with Live.
You take off to dunk but you realize thats going to miss or get block but they give you the nice animation to make your defender not jump at all and duck.
you know how you make that realistic.
give me the defender the ability to always jump. early, late, etc. whatever happens happens. and if i choose to just stand there or duck, give me that option to. why would i duck instead of jump or just stand there? because if i dont duck. I might get kneed in the face. if that happens my guy can end up with a broken knows or eye injury.
^^I dare any of them to put that in the game. You do that and you will have both sides of why should i choose to use this over this. its risk, reward with everything you do in real basketball. the ducking is a protection thing in real life. its not just something to do just cause.
You want to keep rushing the hole with all those people in the paint? ok.. just remember there aint no guarantees that you wont land on someones foot and sprain your ankle. put that in the game too. obviously some guys are healthier than others. give guys who constantly dunk and snag boards with athleticism over position more knee injuries. (jumpers knee).
there's consequences to everything in reality. these things can be in the game. but as of now they're not. and they are not in there due to casual gamers not a lack of computer hardware/software capabilities.
You want to rush the rim with kyle korver over and over with all those guys in the paint. be my guest. he will come out of there with some type of injury. a prime dwade can get away with it. he's built for that style of play. but even he will take the punishment over time. just like some games allow your spaceships or cars to rust and get dusty like you've had it for awhile. your player can age due to how you play with him and how good his health was to begin with.
GO on ahead and use embid and do all those fancy post moves. and then get hurt mid game. because thats what would happen to him. lol. you dont even have to be super harsh about it and make it sit out. just make him play injured with reduced abilities. There's consequences.
Kingpnp, the feel is not there. You can say it is for you, but not to the vast majority, meaning that your word against the vast majority doesn't help sales, it gets squashed. The gameplay comments about the feel are by the thousands, most people feel the gameplay stinks. You continually going on about 2K will not help Live, period, it does nothing, because 2K is putting out that feel. It gets its fair share of complaints, but people buy it, period. People buy it also for the modes/new content/roster editing and sharing. You are right about a lot of your gameplay complaints about 2k, but that helps Live zero at this point.
They need to put out a game that feels good on first impression, that feels right. Period.
kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three
I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.
I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.
A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.
We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.
dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.
When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.
dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.
I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.
I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.
Dee..re-read my above post. i edited it before you replied. That is the kind of stuff I'm dealing with every single game i play in 2k. not some times. not a little bit. not every now and then. but every single game.
Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:kingpnp wrote:@ Dee4Three
I just want you and others like you to understand one thing. In order for any basketball game developer to make a game where it gives you a lot more freedom of movement. it will be 5times more difficult to make that game still look pleasing to the eye like a 2k game. there's a real reason why 2k does not go with that freedom of movement way of thinking. They know doing that will make it that much harder to have a game that LOOKS great to people watching, which is like you said what gets people to buy the game. They have already purchased it then later on they start crying about the 2 player canned animations they get locked into.
I do have control over when I pull up and how I pull up in 2K, I feel like im in 100% control. It feels right, and it looks right. Its not just looks, it feels right. The canned animations hurt the experience sometimes, absolutely. But I feel the control with 2K, I feel the smoothness, I feel the realism in a lot of what I do. Instead of Live, where I can't upfake, step aside and take smooth shot. I don't need to understand anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how bad the look and feel is to just step aside and take regular shot in live. That's not trying to give more freedom of movement, that's a bad animation sequence, that's the bottom line. You can't sugarcoat that. It destroys the feel.
A good compliment for the game would be that you can flick the joystick the proper way and spin successfully around your defender without the ball being jarred. That's something I can get behind, so nice job Live. But to insinuate that those ridiculous, unrealistic, choppy animations are somehow planned, or part of the plan, in order to give more control, that is flat out wrong.
We need to make them better, not get behind them on that stuff, and also not give excuses for them after 4 years on this gen, which have had the same complaints about feel/gameplay for each new edition.
dee..you do not have full control with 2k. you never do. this is the biggest gripe. if you did have control. there would be no nba live. do you understand what i'm telling you? we would all be all in on 2k all the time. i dont care what game came out. they would never be purchased unless it was for $5.00.
When i'm playing offense on live i'm in control(i can use the shot stick to do my own layups now. not just the shot button(which is the only time the game is choosing how you do your layup). when i'm playing defense I am surely in control on live especially in comparison to 2k.
dont confuse looks for feel. they're are not one in the same. even when you do a pull up. the pull up for a lot of these guys in 2k are unrealistic looking as well. now they are not jerky looking bad like live, i'll give you that. but they are still unreal looking. and lets not get on the and 1 mixtape dribbling that 2k does with their playmakers. utterly ridiculous. even kyrie the dribble master isnt looking silly like that when breaking his defenders down. guys are spamming the dribbling moves praying to the ankle breaker badge to kick in so the defender will get SUCKED INTO a fall animation. wait...i'm the defender. you did all that side to side dribbling. i never once moved. because i know you were only trying to get that silly animation to kick in. I'm a real defender. I dont bite on every fake and slight move. I will cut one of your directions off and dare you to go the other way. yet these guys come back right into you. dont get a charge as they should, dont run you over as they should and lose the ball. they just dribble thru your body constantly. do you know how you have to steal the ball from playmakers if you're not a lockdown defender? You have to Ram into them and make them drop the ball. do you know how stupid that is? There's an old game called arch rivals where you would do this. it was a fun game because it was hilarious. you could punch people for the ball, push them down, etc. but thats what it was made for. it was a joke. this is supposed to be realistic. and I have to ram into you to make you lose the ball? Come on Dee. This is something i see every single time I play 2k. remember I'm not playing vs cpu players playing 1 vs 1 (my team vs your team). I'm going head to head 5 my players vs 5 my players. that means i defend a real live person. they defend me. i do this so no one can hide behind the cpu assisted defenders.
I'm not saying I have full control, I have more control. I have quicker response with most things (Like.. stepping aside to shoot a jumper, stepping in to shoot a jumper, taking a hook shot without robotic movement). I have MORE control, I have BETTER Feel. 2K is far from perfect.
I said that Live doesn't feel right, and it hurts sales especially based on that first impression. We can talk all day about the gameplay issues in 2K, but the bottom line is: People play Live, and most of the time immediately put it down, and post remarks about the gameplay not feeling right, or being trash, most people don't do that with 2K. I am aware of all the issues with 2K gameplay, but that's not helping Lives sales. We need to make it known that those animations, the feel, those things are OFF (Even though they should already know, its everywhere in comment sections). We need to tell them what will make that 99% catch on, that's what we need to do.
Dee..re-read my above post. i edited it before you replied. That is the kind of stuff I'm dealing with every single game i play in 2k. not some times. not a little bit. not every now and then. but every single game.
Have you seen my long thread about the gameplay issues with 2K? Others here have, I know that. I went into them hard for everything that you have mentioned, stuff that happens every game. We agree!!!!!!
That's not helping Live, period. We are talking about what Live needs to do to get back on the map, the stuff I have repeated over and over. I am not biased, I agree with the gameplay gripes about 2k, but I also see why it sells and the gameplay advantages. I see why people upon first glance and touch choose 2k 9 times out of 10.
That's what we need to iron out with EA Sports, we need to get them to see that the look and feel need to be changed to be smoother, to feel right. That's what we need to do.
Dee4Three wrote:People literally go onto youtube, and type "NBA Live 18 Gameplay", they take a look at the video, and the majority go "Live is still trash", they havn't even touched it. And the ones who do (The majority), put it down fast and say it doesn't feel right. But literally watching a player go into those robotic animations is an instant sales killer, people won't buy it just based on watching a minute of gameplay video. That is exactly what we need to be addressing, that's such a big sales killer.
Beyond Frustrated with NBA 2k17 - Anybody??!
Postby Dee4Three on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:10 pm
Does anybody else think that all these patches (I play on PC) has crippled the game? When it first came out, it felt mostly different than 2k16, but now it feels very much the same. I am really frustrated with all the body steals/body blocks, Unrealistic forced fouls, strange defensive animations where everybody seems to be losing their guy (Its horrible, the defense is absurd in this game), the unrealistic pace, the unrealistic bumping, protected shots when nobody is really in your space.
I'm pretty fed up, and it has interfered with my modding as well, just because I'm so frustrated with the game.
The gameplay patching elements DO NOT HELP, they are garbage. I am starting to wonder if the 2k dev team (who work on the animations/gameplay) understand the game of basketball fully. You can't possibly see the defense played on any possession and call it realistic, you can't possibly see these wild protected shots and think they are realistic, you can't possibly see all the excessive bumping (animation stopped for like 2 seconds) as realistic, you can't possibly think that after calling a play, it taking like 8-10 seconds for the players to start actually running it is realistic, you cant possibly think the ball yo-yoing in front of a player when his progress is impeded is realistic, you can't possibly think all these easy body steals and body blocks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the CPU double teams that leave people WIDE OPEN for layups all the time is realistic, you can't possibly think the running a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 fastbreak in this game is realistic (your CPU player will fade out to the three almost every time instead of going in for the layup), you cant possibly think that these slow motion layups/dunks are realistic, you can't possibly think that the deathly slow spin moves and other moves are realistic (NOBODY moves even close to that slow in real life, in fact its impossible), you cant possibly think giving Nick Van Exel Shawn Marions free throw is realistic, You cant possibly think that copying all of Lebrons Signatures to Jr Rider is realistic, you can't possibly think that centers/PF's during a sim season get like 5 assists and 2 steals in 82 games is realistic, you can't possibly think that making the same mistake giving Charles Smiths portrait to Matt Bullard is realistic, you can't possibly think giving Walt Williams Adrian Griffins Portrait is realistic.
The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of any sports game, is the flow. That is flows like real life. The pace. Atleast when playing NBA 2k9, NBA 2k11, NBA 2k13 and NBA 2k14, we had the realistic pace of the NBA. The players looked and played like athletes. Overall, the defense was sound, overall, the players moved up and down the court at a realistic pace. Everything that I have said above ruins THE FLOW of the game. Players celebrating after a made hoop (can't get them out of the animation) for like 5-6 seconds while the player they are defending goes all the way up the court for an easy score (because nobody helps obviously). Ive had this happen to me MANY times, especially at the end of games when a big shot is made (Because the players celebrates after). You call that realistic 2k? If that happens ONCE it can completely ruin a game for the user. Now put that together with all of the other frustrations I mentioned above.
I am actually really hoping NBA LIVE puts out a realistic product for NBA LIVE 18. I am beyond frustrated.
Any 2k dev team (who makes decisions on the gameplay) want to come on here and tell us what the hell is going on? Every single thing I mention above (and some I left out), happen every single game to completely butcher the experience. I doubt someone from 2k DEV would come on the forums to address this. But all of those things about dramatically impact the flow (minus the simming stats issue). I don't want to hear that the system can only do certain things. You have proven in the past the system certainly can make a realistic flow, realistic basketball sim. This is NOT realistic by any means. I take a pull up with CJ McCollum, and my defender is a couple feet off me, and he goes into a protected shot that doesn't even hit rim. WHAT? NBA Players make those shots ALL THE TIME, nvm CJ McCollum being a very good shooter. This happens all the time during games.
I could go on and on. I am hoping others get upset like I am, maybe if enough of us talk about it and complain, a difference can be made. I want to point out, Is stood up for this game when it first came out. The game feels completely broken now.
Andrew wrote:Another update has gone live. Haven't had a chance to check it out and I'm heading out for the day shortly, so I'll probably some more impressions tomorrow.
ThaLiveKing wrote:Apparently they've cleaned up some of the shooting animations. This was posted on OS today.
The X wrote:I think the CPU AI seems smarter. LBJ a lot tougher than in 2K to stop. You've got to pick your poison. Help on LBJ drives & give up 3's.
I like that the CPU seems to hit the open man with passes & also launch shots if you lag.
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