NBA 2K17 Reflection

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NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:26 am

Hi all,

It's been 16 months since the release of NBA 2K17. I am not expecting many responses to this thread, but I figured it was worth a post.

I feel like 2K17 was the breakthrough year for PC modding on this gen, and part of that is because it was the best 2K on this gen thus far (Or atleast up to that point, some prefer 2K18 now). I noticed a massive uptick in modding, and a lot of new modders came in to create work. The game itself while partially destroyed by patches, made many improvements over 2K16, making it a game that people put a lot of hours into playing and/or modding.

Since 2K18 came out, excitement around it among those who were prominent on the 2K17 modding scene has partially gone away. Many who were very active on 2K17 have disappeared (including myself), some may be for personal reasons; which is expected as we all have lives outside of modding, but some of it is (In my opinion) due to the lack of appeal of the new title. We expect modding to trail off slightly throughout the year, but not people to completely vanish. In NBA 2K17, I feel we were all active and modding up until the release of 2K18.

Great projects (Like the Euro league project) are happening on 2K18, and some amazing CF's are being made. However, so much emphasis has been placed on adfly links, youtube views, compensation/attention in general, that the NBA 2K18 modding sections seems more like advertising for personal gain more than helping out the community. I feel that in NBA 2K17, we had people pushing hard for improvements in modding and modding tools, but also pushing hard for eachother. It felt like an active, fun, engaged community.

Was 2K17 perfect? no, it was not. But did the community rally around that project for the right reasons? I absolutely believe so. I feel that in NBA 2K17 we had the perfect balance of modding and gameplay conversations. In NBA 2K18, I feel like outside of my defense thread, gameplay discussions have basically died out. Have we given up on trying to give feedback to improve products in favor of sporting some nifty looking screenshots for views, compensation, and attention?

Either way, I plan on attempting to come back strong for 2K19 as long as I like the product. However, from what I have seen, not enough people are talking about the gameplay issues surrounding 2K18, which makes me think the gameplay direction may continue on it's current path. Which worries me.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Andrew on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:15 am

I think NBA 2K17 was a very strong year, not only for the experience the game provided, but as you noted, modding as well. It's not unprecedented for the newest game to seemingly fall short of its immediate predecessor because an idea or design choice didn't work out, and that's certainly been the case with NBA 2K18. The VC gouging is a major problem, but I would agree that the gameplay is a big factor, too. If there's no enthusiasm about the game itself, then it's difficult for people to get excited about modding it. The problematic approach with ad links and attitudes in the modding community obviously plays a role, but it does come back to the game itself.

NBA 2K17 is my favourite game on the current generation. It felt fun to play across the board, and I really got sucked into MyCAREER again. Of all the story-driven career modes, it's had the best take so far, and the most rewarding experience. Offline was enjoyable, online was enjoyable. There were some issues with balance, legacy issues, and various areas having room for improvement, but it was a lot of fun. That fun just doesn't seem to be there in NBA 2K18.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:25 pm

while i respect your opinion, you should open your eyes, because for most users, 2K17 is probably the worst 2K ever.

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

reddit : why_nba_2k17_is_the_worst_2k_of_all_time
reddit : why_2k17_is_the_worst_2k_of_all_time

I'm not a modder, but the tools are the same on 2K17 and 2K18. And tools arent as good on this gen than on previous gen.
For scoreboards modding, i think that 2K18 (and 2K17), i think that bongo made a great job for example.

Old gen is definitly far better if all is about gameplay.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Andrew on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:30 pm

Not for nothing, but saying something like "you should open your eyes" conveys a distinct lack of respect for someone's opinion.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:52 pm

Sticky, you can find youtube videos that talk horrible about most any game. I could rope in over 100 videos for 2K18. I stated that many liked 2K18 better, I didn't say it was everybody. I even stated that 2K17 had its issues and wasn't perfect.

What I said above is my opinion, and what I said about the modding aspect is what I have observed. I don't need to open my eyes about anything, that doesn't even make sense. If I had said "everybody says 2K17 is better than 2K18", you posting those videos and making that comment would have been relevant.

So your post is moot, it's pointless.

The other point I'd like to make, you created a Reddit thread to post my 2K17 videos, praised them, and said on numerous posts you were enjoying the game with my mods. Meaning, you had enjoyment out of 2K17, and not once have I heard you say it was the worst 2K of all time. So why are you posting videos of other people saying its the worst 2K of all time (which you can find on basically any 2k game), when you yourself never stated that you believed that to be the case even once?

Don't be my friend and support me when I'm modding a game, and disrespect me when I'm not. I don't deserve that.

I have stated numerous times the reasons why I dislike NBA 2K18, you have seen all of those comments (you usually come on to those threads and make a comment of your own). I have stated why I prefer NBA 2K17 as well, all of these posts from me have been detailed about my reasoning.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby sticky-fingers on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:47 am

Andrew wrote:Not for nothing, but saying something like "you should open your eyes" conveys a distinct lack of respect for someone's opinion.


well, perhaps im too direct in english because of my limited vocabulary, but please read my first sentence.

you can blame microtransactions, lack of atmosphere, but if we talk about gameplay, 2K17 is/was more bashed than 2K18 on internet.

Check NLSC'2k17 section, it's pretty dead.
The last (amazing) 1995/96 mod has only 2 pages, unfortunately. Dee'UCTR is under "artificial respiration" with Dee's videos.
Check in comparison 2K14. If 2K17 was so good, dont you think that the modding scene will stay or moving on it.

About "advertising for personal gain more than helping out the community", it's not a new think.
ads links (dead after few months) aren't a new thing.

So, you can prefer 2K17.
But, please dont fall into nostalgia and bashing over and over again a game you dont like.

IMO as an "end-user", it seems that "next gen" kills softly but surely this modding scene.
There's a lot a talented creators, but i think, this scene also needs modders with developping skills, reverse engineering competencies.
There's no more Vl@d Zola Jr. , Leftos or nesa24
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:14 am

sticky-fingers wrote:
Andrew wrote:Not for nothing, but saying something like "you should open your eyes" conveys a distinct lack of respect for someone's opinion.


well, perhaps im too direct in english because of my limited vocabulary, but please read my first sentence.

you can blame microtransactions, lack of atmosphere, but if we talk about gameplay, 2K17 is/was more bashed than 2K18 on internet.

Check NLSC'2k17 section, it's pretty dead.
The last (amazing) 1995/96 mod has only 2 pages, unfortunately. Dee'UCTR is under "artificial respiration" with Dee's videos.
Check in comparison 2K14. If 2K17 was so good, dont you think that the modding scene will stay or moving on it.

About "advertising for personal gain more than helping out the community", it's not a new think.
ads links (dead after few months) aren't a new thing.

So, you can prefer 2K17.
But, please dont fall into nostalgia and bashing over and over again a game you dont like.

IMO as an "end-user", it seems that "next gen" kills softly but surely this modding scene.
There's a lot a talented creators, but i think, this scene also needs modders with developping skills, reverse engineering competencies.
There's no more Vl@d Zola Jr. , Leftos or nesa24


Now that is disrespect.

My thread has a ton of real comments on it, a bunch of feedback, and my video on youtube for it has over 36k views. I post videos there for the reason that it's the perfect spot to post them.

I am not living in nostalgia, nor am I bashing for the sake of bashing. I'm critiquing the gameplay in hopes that a developer will see it and make changes, I am hoping that more people join in on the gameplay discussion. This has 0 to do with nostalgia. I spent the money on 2K18, I own the game. I want a gameplay experience different from what they provided, I am calling out the gameplay flaws as I see them in hope of fixes.

The reason the NBA 2K17 section is not like the 2K14 section is because of the limited modding that still exists. We couldn't feasibly create a UBR or URB, as we could not just throw files in a folder for new faces, etc (we had to use existing PNG and Face ids, we couldn't use the extra spots). We also didn't have a program to copy everything over from player to player. Those are the reasons single season mods, etc didn't take off.

On top of that, the 95-96 mod would have gained a ton of attention if it was still the current game, every time a new game comes out 99% of people move onto the new game. So to mention the only two pages of comments, is also disrespectful to that project. It would be FAR MORE if it was the current game. I applaud them for the work, and release, of a past game.

NBA 2K18 had one real discussion about gameplay, and it was my one on one defense thread. Outside of that thread, nobody is talking about the gameplay. So I created a thread to talk about it. Is that bashing? No, it's giving critiques as I see them and hoping more people join in on the conversation. Now why would I create such a thread if I don't like the game? I could just not play it. But I want the complaints about gameplay aspects that I believe hurt the series looked at.

Sticky, I'm sorry but you need to check yourself right now. Because you are not making any sense.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby sticky-fingers on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:36 am

Dee4Three wrote:Now that is disrespect.


There's no disrespect, but cold facts.

But after taking shortcuts and bashing me for alleged disrespect, you just ignore the rest of my post, again.

1995/96 mod didn't receive the audience it should. I WROTE IT in my previous post : you should READ
so where's the disrespect ?!
I also posted after the release what i think about this mod in their thread.

About your UCTR thread, it's NOW just alive because of you, posting your videos. But the first post of the last page dates from october.
Fact again.
So where's the disrespect ?!

It doesnt mean that you guys should stop modding 2K17 or that your work is outdated.
I'm sure that some guys will discover 2K17 and enjoy your respective work, or some others came back sometimes.

But 2K18 is not as bad as you claim, that's why users move on the current game.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:48 am

The NBA 2K17 section is mostly dead, when have I said it was not?

And my point about my thread and the 95-96 Roster absolutely stands. Mine died out because of the new games release, and that thread is at two pages because it was released after 2k18 was out. How am I ignoring you?

I stated that 99% of people move onto the new game, I said that. So you are just saying things to say them.

And yes, that did feel disrespectful to me, bringing up my project like that. It also seemed disrespectful to the 95-96 modders who had the guts the make a release of an older title (a sizeable release at that). That is the way I took it.

Telling me I'm talking the way I am because of nostalgia is also disrespect. Stating my judgement is clouded because I like 2K17 better. By saying that, you are stating I am being biased, that is disrespecting me. I am NOT being biased, my critiques of 2K18 stand, I have gone over them in detail many times. I like 2K17 better, because I like 2K17 better.

What is your problem anyway? What's the purpose of this? It makes no sense. I came on to do a reflection of 2K17 as I saw it, and you come on here and tell me I need to "open my eyes", and after use your language as an excuse?.

You do not have constructive conversations at this point, and I'm done speaking with you about this topic. I stand by my comments in the original post, and my critiques of 2K18, as well as my thoughts on your words.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby sticky-fingers on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:03 pm

Dont invert the roles, we cannot have constructive conversations because of you.
You take a part of one sentence of a post and bash me.
You're totally biased, untempered, over reacting. Take it (again) for disrespect, i dont care, that's my last words to you, definitly.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:46 am

sticky-fingers wrote:Dont invert the roles, we cannot have constructive conversations because of you.
You take a part of one sentence of a post and bash me.
You're totally biased, untempered, over reacting. Take it (again) for disrespect, i dont care, that's my last words to you, definitly.


Wrong, on all counts. More nonsense.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Stildo33 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:51 am

Dee - I think you are the man. For what that is worth.

I totally agree that when NBA 2k18 came out, the 2k17 stuff died off some...for sure. I'll be the first to admit, I was on of those. I got started playing 2k18 on PC, Switch, and PS4 (yes I have a problem, I realize that).

I do feel 2k17 was an amazing game. I feel 2k18 is pretty decent though too. I JUST downloaded the 95-96 roster as I just saw it two days ago. I can't wait to try and win 50 games with Dino Radja and Dana Barros. Now I know why ML Carr sand bagged hahaha. Uh, allegedly.

Anyway, I would love to jump in and help. I just proposed something to Ironknight on modding for 2k18. My problem is I am not on enough to stay well connected with most people or good enough of a modder to contribute to most of everyone else's levels. That time loss I've had is mostly over now (job changes within my work and just moved my family of 8 which has taken 2 months). If i had a roster to work on for others, I'd make that happen.

I LOVE the NBA 2k14 idea of soooooo many retro seasons....but that game sucks anymore I feel like. I also simmied 7-8 seasons to make sure it would work long term and it myleague just kept crashing. I also lost my logins from vlads for codes to the roster editors and stopped. Anyway.....
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:52 am

Stildo33 wrote:Dee - I think you are the man. For what that is worth.

I totally agree that when NBA 2k18 came out, the 2k17 stuff died off some...for sure. I'll be the first to admit, I was on of those. I got started playing 2k18 on PC, Switch, and PS4 (yes I have a problem, I realize that).

I do feel 2k17 was an amazing game. I feel 2k18 is pretty decent though too. I JUST downloaded the 95-96 roster as I just saw it two days ago. I can't wait to try and win 50 games with Dino Radja and Dana Barros. Now I know why ML Carr sand bagged hahaha. Uh, allegedly.

Anyway, I would love to jump in and help. I just proposed something to Ironknight on modding for 2k18. My problem is I am not on enough to stay well connected with most people or good enough of a modder to contribute to most of everyone else's levels. That time loss I've had is mostly over now (job changes within my work and just moved my family of 8 which has taken 2 months). If i had a roster to work on for others, I'd make that happen.

I LOVE the NBA 2k14 idea of soooooo many retro seasons....but that game sucks anymore I feel like. I also simmied 7-8 seasons to make sure it would work long term and it myleague just kept crashing. I also lost my logins from vlads for codes to the roster editors and stopped. Anyway.....


Thanks for your continued support!

Good luck with Radja and company, that's one of my top 5 favorite teams ever. They fought so hard every night.

I just cannot move forward with NBA 2K18, my brother and I played a game last night, and we had no fun. The game feels like it was rushed, and the motion system is broken. It doesn't feel like it has any real NBA authenticity on the floor. I'm out for 2K18, but will attempt a strong comeback for NBA 2K19.

Ive still been adding teams to my NBA 2K17 roster, I just havnt released it yet. If I get around to it ill shoot you a PM to let you know its out there. I have also been entertaining finishing the 17-18 roster with permission from the original creator.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Stildo33 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:56 am

Yeah. After playing 2k18 awhile and going back to 2k17 something is different. I think 2k17 might actually be the better game now hahaha. I like the euro-stash contracs for myleague. While working on my 91 roster I stashed Dino and Kukoc on their respective teams. Sabonis as well, even though he was stashed from 86-96 lol!

I could get into the roster making on 2k17 now I think. CE seems much easier to use on 2k18 though for some reason. Especially editing team names.

Anyway, would love to hear more of what you have and are working on! I can't wait! Let me know if I can help!

PS - toying with how to play this new roster still. I loved that '96 team too. I also wanted to get to the PP/Walker combo and was thinking of simulating ahead a little, but that doesn't seem as fun either. Would be nice make Dino, Dee, Fox stick around for the Kenny Anderson, PP, Walker run. I was able to snatch up 37 year old Magic Johnson for 20/min a night and shift him to PG duty. Also drafted McCarty and Battie.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Stildo33 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:00 am

Oh yeah, I also traded for Ray Allen and signed Rodney Rogers in FA as well. I feel like he is very OP for this roster though. Is it just me? He was great for Boston in 2002, but I don't remember him but THIS good at anytime in his career.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:28 am

Stildo33 wrote:Yeah. After playing 2k18 awhile and going back to 2k17 something is different. I think 2k17 might actually be the better game now hahaha. I like the euro-stash contracs for myleague. While working on my 91 roster I stashed Dino and Kukoc on their respective teams. Sabonis as well, even though he was stashed from 86-96 lol!

I could get into the roster making on 2k17 now I think. CE seems much easier to use on 2k18 though for some reason. Especially editing team names.

Anyway, would love to hear more of what you have and are working on! I can't wait! Let me know if I can help!

PS - toying with how to play this new roster still. I loved that '96 team too. I also wanted to get to the PP/Walker combo and was thinking of simulating ahead a little, but that doesn't seem as fun either. Would be nice make Dino, Dee, Fox stick around for the Kenny Anderson, PP, Walker run. I was able to snatch up 37 year old Magic Johnson for 20/min a night and shift him to PG duty. Also drafted McCarty and Battie.


So something happened to me that made me realize that NBA 2K17 post patch is still far better than NBA 2K18.

My CPU crashed, and it was when I loaded up 2K17. So when I rebooted, the game said "Install" on Steam... so I had to reinstall it. So, of course I had to go online to do it. So the game got all the patches, and I booted it up for the heck of it and played a game. The game was still a lot of fun, and my brother and I played a game after and we had a good time.

We had the game speed at 58 for the games, and that made the players feel lighter (Which was my biggest complaint after the patches, how the players felt stuck in the mud). So at 58 speed, post patches, the game was pretty damn good.

I reverted back to the December .exe, but would gladly stick with 2K17 even post patches.

In regards to mods, I am working on adding a couple more teams still to my classic teams roster. Single season rosters would be AMAZING, but not enough modders still play this game. And that's a shame, because this game has so much to offer.

When you say there is something different about it, I think that you mean it's cleaner. The basketball itself is cleaner, it makes more sense. It doesn't have the skating, it doesn't have as much stumbling, it doesn't have as much uncontrolled chaos, and the ball physics are better. The game overall takes more strategy, the game overall is just a more natural/controlled basketball experience. The players actually plant like real life for the most part, you feel good about the things you do on the court.
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Re: NBA 2K17 Reflection

Postby Stildo33 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:42 am

Dee4Three wrote:
Stildo33 wrote:Yeah. After playing 2k18 awhile and going back to 2k17 something is different. I think 2k17 might actually be the better game now hahaha. I like the euro-stash contracs for myleague. While working on my 91 roster I stashed Dino and Kukoc on their respective teams. Sabonis as well, even though he was stashed from 86-96 lol!

I could get into the roster making on 2k17 now I think. CE seems much easier to use on 2k18 though for some reason. Especially editing team names.

Anyway, would love to hear more of what you have and are working on! I can't wait! Let me know if I can help!

PS - toying with how to play this new roster still. I loved that '96 team too. I also wanted to get to the PP/Walker combo and was thinking of simulating ahead a little, but that doesn't seem as fun either. Would be nice make Dino, Dee, Fox stick around for the Kenny Anderson, PP, Walker run. I was able to snatch up 37 year old Magic Johnson for 20/min a night and shift him to PG duty. Also drafted McCarty and Battie.


So something happened to me that made me realize that NBA 2K17 post patch is still far better than NBA 2K18.

My CPU crashed, and it was when I loaded up 2K17. So when I rebooted, the game said "Install" on Steam... so I had to reinstall it. So, of course I had to go online to do it. So the game got all the patches, and I booted it up for the heck of it and played a game. The game was still a lot of fun, and my brother and I played a game after and we had a good time.

We had the game speed at 58 for the games, and that made the players feel lighter (Which was my biggest complaint after the patches, how the players felt stuck in the mud). So at 58 speed, post patches, the game was pretty damn good.

I reverted back to the December .exe, but would gladly stick with 2K17 even post patches.

In regards to mods, I am working on adding a couple more teams still to my classic teams roster. Single season rosters would be AMAZING, but not enough modders still play this game. And that's a shame, because this game has so much to offer.

When you say there is something different about it, I think that you mean it's cleaner. The basketball itself is cleaner, it makes more sense. It doesn't have the skating, it doesn't have as much stumbling, it doesn't have as much uncontrolled chaos, and the ball physics are better. The game overall takes more strategy, the game overall is just a more natural/controlled basketball experience. The players actually plant like real life for the most part, you feel good about the things you do on the court.


You just nailed it. It's the strategy and the game feels more clean - more like basketball. It feels like the "next" NBA 2k should....improved! 2k18 feels like NBA 2k10 or something and also reminds my NBA Live 95 for some reason. Sliding everywhere, can easily get to the basket, shots feel random vs fluid, etc. I need to call pick to break free for an attack the to basket. I need to run plays to get three point shooters open within a half court offense. Heck, you ACTUALLY use post players and their moves. They work on '18, but nothing like 15, 16, and 17.

The thing I REALLY like about 2k18 though is the sound track. How do use that for 2k17?

Then, I'd be set I think.

Headed out for vacation tomorrow, but I still start doing videos again when I return in a week. Just moved into new house and closed today, unpacked finally, new role in job is under control. I am ready to go!!!

I know not enough people still play NBA 2k17 and not sure why especially when it comes to the modding that is available. This game could easily have the modding community that NBA 2k14 does. Easily.
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