Religious views

by **Jona** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:40 am

cyanide wrote:Perhaps 5 leading open-minded religious professors should all be in for creating a standard high school textbook on the world's major religions. There might be some bickering, but it's doable. I've seen an "office" at the University that has some theologians of different religions share the same program. Kinda neat how they all can co-exist in harmony.

Man, that would be neat. The thing is, it would be very hard to do without omitting certain pieces of info.
How could a Buddhistm, a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian agree on how to interpret Buddha's or JC's teachings?

by **Jackal** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:13 am

JC? As in Jackal & Cameron? As in JCLive? That died due to my lazyness.

by **AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:16 am

Jamal Crawford is a spiritual leader?

by **cyanide** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:57 am

Jona wrote:How could a Buddhistm, a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian agree on how to interpret Buddha's or JC's teachings?

According to scriptures and mutual collaboration, methinks. I'm very sure that if that would to happen, it would be on a metaphorical level where all the religions have a shared ideology on morals, spirituality, etc.

by **dada** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:59 am

Jesus doesnt think I am fat.

by **cyanide** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:01 am

No, but he thinks you're overweight.

by **dada** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:07 am

cyanide wrote:No, but he thinks you're overweight.

No he doesnt. Jesus wouldnt say such a thing to me.

He's my friend.

by **AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:39 am

Jesus wouldnt say such a thing to me.

Yeah, yeah, take a number. He has 6 billion people to take care of, first.

by **Colin** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:22 am

In grade 8 we studied a bunch of major religions. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and a general overview of Native American (and South American) religions. It was done very factually and just as another part of the people's culture. We looked at the fundamentals: which/how many Gods are worshipped, the religious doctrines used, the origins, and a general 'what they do'.

And Matt, the 10 commandments are Moses. But you can simplify the first 4 to "Love and believe in God' and the last 6 to 'love and respect your neighbour'.

I would expand a little, but I fractured my finger playing football today. Typing = bad.

by **bullsfan009** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:27 pm

D-Weaver99027 wrote:Bullsfan, consider this:

Would God deny entrance to the Heavens to a man who has lived by 'Christian' virtue, despite not believing in the concept of God. In the end, and to everyone else's eyes but our own, it is what we DO, not what we BELIEVE.

Why accept the teachings but reject the Teacher? Why affirm God's existence with your life but deny it with your lips? I can't say who God will accept and who He won't, all I know is that it will be fair and just. But I do know that belief in God isn't some unnecessary luxury. How can one sustain a loving lifestyle without God, who is Love? How can one stay true to a course of goodness without the strength, support & motivation of the only one who is truly Good, ultimately Good?

IMO there is a reason why billions of humans have sought God: WE NEED HIM! With Him comes peace, purpose, strength, hope, etc. Pascal said,

"There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man, which cannot be satisfied by any created thing, but only by the Creator, made known by His son, Jesus Christ."

As the Bob Dylan's song goes, "YOU GOTTA SERVE SOMEBODY." It's best for us personally and the entire world globally when we make that God, and not ourselves or other humans.

"If you want to be important, wonderful. If you want to be recognized, wonderful. If you want to be great, wonderful! But recognize...that he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. That's the new definition of greatness. And the thing that I like about it...is that by that definition it means that EVERYBODY can be great, because everybody can serve!" -MLK

by **AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy** on Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:36 pm

Why accept the teachings but reject the Teacher?

Don't you see? They don't HAVE TO BE teachings. They can simply be each man's TRUTH.

by **Mentally Hilarious** on Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:58 am

D-Weaver99027 wrote:
Why accept the teachings but reject the Teacher?

Don't you see? They don't HAVE TO BE teachings. They can simply be each man's TRUTH.

Good point.

But...

If you follow the rules set up by for example Christianity, without accepting the teacher thus making it your path, would you not be a christian in action if not in belief?

The logical question would be what defines you as a believer or follower - the actions you preform or the mindset you heed to even if you are reluctant to turn it into action.

Classical epistemological question. Where does the knowledge come from and what does it entail. Words or actions.

by **bullsfan009** on Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:08 am

\"Always What, Never wrote:
Why accept the teachings but reject the Teacher?

Don't you see? They don't HAVE TO BE teachings. They can simply be each man's TRUTH.

This takes us back to our continual debate, Dweaver :lol:

Some people's "Truths" are simply wrong. Like Adolph Hitler, or KKK members, etc.

by **cyanide** on Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:11 am

But it's their truth that defines them, regardless of how we see them.

by **[Q]** on Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:45 pm

cyanide wrote:Gotta agree with what Jona said above. In addition, the Bible shouldn't be viewed as something to believe in or take literally, but to understand the widsom and metaphorical messages it provides, which would really enrich anybody's life. The same goes for any other religion out there. Religion isn't something that I want to be label myself into, but rather to appreciate the universal truths that it acknowledges. There's a lot of good messages that can be found in Christianity, but there's also a lot of great spiritual resonance that can be found in Buddhism as well. There's no religion I want to be part of, but I want to learn through the wisdom and spiritual guidance of actual living people who sees the world and people through a higher level of meaning in life.

I completely agree with your view on the Bible. I see it as something written for entertainment purposes or at least to teach people good morals and what not.
I mean a book written back so long ago, there's no real proof that it's real. For example, the story of Beowulf was written long ago, but how are we to know if it really happened or not?

to answer bullsfan, I'm a very skeptical person by nature... I need proof to believe something is true. There's not a whole lot of hard evidence in my mind that he existed. i mean, how many people have you seen pop out of a virgin? that's just too weird for me. a lot of the stories that come from the Bible are just so unrealistic that I just can't believe that it actually happened. I mean, if God is a loving god, then he would have forgiven Eve and women would not have had a lower place in societies like they do today.

by **H Rock** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:46 am

Are you saying that Catholosism and other sects are not true?

Yes.

And what would you say to someone that thinks that conservative Christians are liars?

Um, nothing. I've been called that lots of times before.

Isn't that condradicting what Jesus preached, "Love thy brother"?

Are you saying that because we should "all love one another", Christians should believe other (false) religions? Read this commandment:

Exodus 21:3 : You shall have no other gods before me.

by **bullsfan009** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:13 am

bullsfan009 wrote:
\"Always What, Never wrote:
Why accept the teachings but reject the Teacher?

Don't you see? They don't HAVE TO BE teachings. They can simply be each man's TRUTH.
This takes us back to our continual debate, Dweaver

Some people's "Truths" are simply wrong. Like Adolph Hitler, or KKK members, etc.

Cyanide wrote:But it's their truth that defines them, regardless of how we see them.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, Cy, but let me ask you a direct question if I may:

Was Hitler WRONG by killing 6 million Jews, and 11 million people overall?

by **bullsfan009** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:18 am

And Negative One, you can't say flat-out that Catholicism etc. "isn't true." You have to break down the issues. There are parts of Catholicism that you would agree with, I'm sure.

And yes, we all should love one another, regardless of differences of opinion. That's what Jesus taught. He loved the Pharisees, I believe, even though he scolded them severely. He did it out of love b/c they were on the wrong road, and leading many other people astray too. Think of it like a parent punishing a child. It's supposed to be for rehabilitation, not just to hurt them or hate them. Indeed, a parent who lets their kid do anything and doesn't guide them right and support them living right may be the one that's lacking in love.

by **cyanide** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:38 am

bullsfan009 wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by that, Cy, but let me ask you a direct question if I may:

Was Hitler WRONG by killing 6 million Jews, and 11 million people overall?

Yes, Hitler was wrong for the responsibility of killing 6 million Jews and 11 million overall. I'm saying he's totally wrong, but in HIS eyes, he felt that he was doing something right. In HIS eyes, and in other anti-Semitics and skinheads, they all share a common truth that makes sense to them. It's a small minority, granted, and they should all die for being fuckwits, but it's their own truth, regardless of how we see them being in the wrong.

by **bullsfan009** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:12 am

I totally agree and understand. Without a doubt, Hitler felt that he was doing the "right" thing. It was what he percieved to be his own Truth, his own Purpose, etc...everybody's got their own personalized take on what is the Truth, I guess...I think this is what Dweaver's been trying to say.

But my point is that there must be some means of measurement, some way of saying "YOU'RE WRONG. Absolutely wrong, eternally wrong, and I'm not going to accept that it's just your truth, because you're spreading hate on the earth."

But on what grounds can someone say this to a Hitler? Why is my idea of Truth better/more right than his?

This is where God ties in. With God's commandments as the standard, you could say to Hitler, "You're wrong because your ways are going against everything God is, and stands for, and told us to stand for. Therefore you must be stopped, and you WILL BE, in this life or the next :mrgreen:

"

I've been wondering in my thinking if maybe "Love" can be substituted in there for God ("God is love" anyway), but I'm really not sure if that's sufficient. It's on the right track though I think...

by **mark_30_112** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:06 am

Now I follow the bible King James that is... I've always been told not to let religon come between you and God. But I'm Christian in that sense. Cathiolics also are very much the same as Aglican.

by **cyanide** on Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:39 am

bullsfan009 wrote:But on what grounds can someone say this to a Hitler? Why is my idea of Truth better/more right than his?

This is where God ties in. With God's commandments as the standard, you could say to Hitler, "You're wrong because your ways are going against everything God is, and stands for, and told us to stand for. Therefore you must be stopped, and you WILL BE, in this life or the next "

I've been wondering in my thinking if maybe "Love" can be substituted in there for God ("God is love" anyway), but I'm really not sure if that's sufficient. It's on the right track though I think...

Your idea of Truth is better/more right than his, imo, stems from love. As I've said before, the greatest thing in the world for me is love. Though love can cause extreme pain, on the opposite spectrum, it's bliss. After reading Jesus' messages, I honestly believe that the most important thing to him and his greatest message for us is merely 'to love.' I don't think we, as human beings, can survive or function without love. We're biologically predisposed to this intangible phenomenon, and when we embrace it, it almost feels as we unexplainably recognize it as something greater than us. I guess that's what you might describe as God.

by **bullsfan009** on Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:05 pm

cyanide wrote:Your idea of Truth is better/more right than his, imo, stems from love. As I've said before, the greatest thing in the world for me is love. Though love can cause extreme pain, on the opposite spectrum, it's bliss. After reading Jesus' messages, I honestly believe that the most important thing to him and his greatest message for us is merely 'to love.' I don't think we, as human beings, can survive or function without love. We're biologically predisposed to this intangible phenomenon, and when we embrace it, it almost feels as we unexplainably recognize it as something greater than us. I guess that's what you might describe as God.

Yes I agree, Cy, great points (Y)

mark_30_112 wrote:I've always been told not to let religon come between you and God. But I'm Christian in that sense.

me too, that's how I feel. It's really unfortunate when people let that happen, making God second to the Church organization or old religious traditions. There are times that one may have to speak out against those in order to stand up for God...that's certaintly what Jesus did.

by **AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy** on Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:46 pm

Was Hitler WRONG by killing 6 million Jews, and 11 million people overall?

As Cyanide said before me, Hitker was wrong for at least 11 million people. But he was right to at least one person. Numbers do not diminish the significance of that. lie it or not, each human is a world of his own, and can choose to live hi slife teh way he sees fit. Good and Evil are irrelevant. Each man's 'pull' is the only thing of consequence. In teh end, all you can aspire to is to be at peace with the course you choose to take, and never regret anything in the process that is your life.

Let us face it, once and for all: The concept of God is merely the futile attempt of man to describe his own, hidden, greatness. Each one of us is God, each one of us is omnipotent by nature. All that keeps us down are fears, beliefs, inhibitions, and just simply a lack of true, unhindered self-awareness.

We get only glimpses of this Light, this Grandeur in our lives, and after the effect is gone we are like lost puppies, trying to recapture that which was so blindlingly bright and superior, and which has now fleeted away. We need a concept which always reminds us of that 'special place' within us. That concept we have been accustomed to call 'God'. I'd rather call it 'The Divine', instead. And it is within me , you, the poor man dying on the street, and the wealthy man who looks down on him.

If you only can relax, accept yourself and be at peace with your mind, then it shall come to you. You can never go after it, it comes when you are ready. And that is the magnitude of man's greatness.

by **bullsfan009** on Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:14 am

it makes me sad to hear you say all this Dweaver...

...and also angry that somebody can rationalize someone like Hitler being OK...to anybody...and also to say that "Good and Evil are
irrelevant"...and "Let us face it, once and for all: The concept of God is merely the futile attempt of man to describe his own, hidden, greatness. Each one of us is God, each one of us is omnipotent by nature."...that's just horrible man. :shake:

...will you be so convinced on your deathbed I wonder?

God is not something to be proven by some mathematical theorem, or solved in a court of law case with concrete evidence. There are kids who only need to hear, "God loves you" from their parents and they just KNOW that there is a God. They just need to crank back their necks and gaze into the lofty blue technicolored skies dotted with fluffy clouds and they just KNOW.

Jesus said, "I bless you Father because you have hidden these things from wise men and revealed them to little children."

God loves you Mr. Dweaver, I sincerely believe that. Haven't you ever felt it?

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