Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby ixcuincle on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:11 am

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Simplistic cartoons like this which bastardize the issue piss me off.

shadowgrin wrote:lol at the canadien.

koberulz wrote:
hova- wrote:As long as there are people in the US who claim that you should fight those bad persons with a gun by giving a gun to a "good" person, there is no chance to help that country.

What else are you supposed to use?

Knife or a spoon.


I see you've played knifey-spooney before.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:57 am

To the NRA idiot who says that having an armed security officer at each school would solve this issue.....im not sure he has thunk this issue through in his head properly. Even if you have an armed security officer standing there ready for something, it is not like he will know who has a gun on them and is about to shoot until the person actually takes one out and starts shooting.

So what if the person who intends to kill takes out the security officer first of all people to begin with? Any mass murderer with any amount of intelligence would know to go after the armed security guard first. The security guard is not a psychic and wont be able to respond to anything until it actually happens or he sees an obvious threat developing.

All you accomplish by having just one armed security guard standing is make him a primary target to be taken out. Since he wont know who has a gun until it is taken out and fired, he is pretty much a sitting duck like any other person about to be shot.

...After thinking some more I guess you could have that officer sitting inside a bullet proof cubicle or something....but still...there will be times he can be targeted because they will not be living each day as if they were in a maximum security prison. They will be coming in to work, lunch, leaving for piss, whatever.

My point is that one security officer will not ensure safety. If you were to have a few of them then that would make sense, but then again it would cost too much to maintain.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:50 pm

There is no price too high for even one life* saved!

*Falsifiable claims not required.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:34 pm

I agree. Having a handgun can save your and your loved ones' lives.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:23 pm

You just don't want anyone to have one.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:19 pm

bowdown wrote:I agree. Having a handgun can save your and your loved ones' lives.

Folks that lost their loved ones by those who have a handgun would disagree.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:40 pm

NovU wrote:
bowdown wrote:I agree. Having a handgun can save your and your loved ones' lives.

Folks that lost their loved ones by those who have a handgun would disagree.

Except for the ones who don't:
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby shadowgrin on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:28 pm

NovU wrote:Folks who have no handgun that lost their loved ones by those who have a handgun would disagree.

Fixed.
Probably.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:25 pm

To be precise, that was the original intent. Thx.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:05 pm

NovU wrote:
bowdown wrote:I agree. Having a handgun can save your and your loved ones' lives.

Folks that lost their loved ones by those who have a handgun would disagree.

One's with illegal handguns? Yeah that is never good. Ofcourse people can use legal ones with bad judgement too but bad judgement of few people shouldnt take away the right of people who use it in proper situations and for good reasons.

There is this recent highly publicized rape incident out of my hometown New Delhi, India. It is a very disgusting and depressing story and it was accomplished because the 4 or 5 rapists used metal rods to beat a couple who they were giving a ride to in their bus at night. If one of the couple had a hand gun they wouldve atleast had a chance. This rape and murder was not committed by professional criminals but by friends who work for the bus company and they just decided to do what they did in the moment. What they did to the woman is incredibly sick and makes me lose hope in humanity.

One handgun couldve prevented this. Those rapists didnt have a handgun but still committed a very serious crime with iron rods on innocent people. If both the rapists and the couple had a gun then it would atleast be a fight, rather than them being sitting ducks in a fast moving bus.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:29 pm

I thought on the last page you were saying nobody should have a handgun.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:39 pm

benji wrote:I thought on the last page you were saying nobody should have a handgun.

This new story changed my perspective. One handgun in the right hands couldve prevented this depressing shit from happening.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:53 pm

Guns are a great equalizer whether it's a band of traitors (or goat-hoarders) fighting the world's most powerful nation over a tax on stamps (or the "right" to stone women), a woman trying to protect herself from rapists, a young mother or elderly woman alone in their house late at night with men breaking in, etc.

Which is why a lot of people want to point guns at people until they give up their guns. (Expressly involuntarily if necessary.)
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:38 pm

bowdown wrote:There is this recent highly publicized rape incident out of my hometown New Delhi, India. It is a very disgusting and depressing story and it was accomplished because the 4 or 5 rapists used metal rods to beat a couple who they were giving a ride to in their bus at night. If one of the couple had a hand gun they wouldve atleast had a chance. This rape and murder was not committed by professional criminals but by friends who work for the bus company and they just decided to do what they did in the moment. What they did to the woman is incredibly sick and makes me lose hope in humanity.

One handgun couldve prevented this. Those rapists didnt have a handgun but still committed a very serious crime with iron rods on innocent people. If both the rapists and the couple had a gun then it would atleast be a fight, rather than them being sitting ducks in a fast moving bus.

That's India. USA has enough problems already as is with guns and you want guns allowed in all countries. You gun fanatics make me laugh.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:58 pm

The US has no legitimate gun problems. (Other than the uncivilized restrictions on them.)

It has a violence problem. With a couple of black guys at the center of it. (RACIST!)

But no matter how much you wish it so, an inanimate totem you fear has no actual magical powers. And restricting the rights of citizens at the point of a gun won't really make you safer.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby el badman on Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:12 am

NovU wrote:
bowdown wrote:There is this recent highly publicized rape incident out of my hometown New Delhi, India. It is a very disgusting and depressing story and it was accomplished because the 4 or 5 rapists used metal rods to beat a couple who they were giving a ride to in their bus at night. If one of the couple had a hand gun they wouldve atleast had a chance. This rape and murder was not committed by professional criminals but by friends who work for the bus company and they just decided to do what they did in the moment. What they did to the woman is incredibly sick and makes me lose hope in humanity.

One handgun couldve prevented this. Those rapists didnt have a handgun but still committed a very serious crime with iron rods on innocent people. If both the rapists and the couple had a gun then it would atleast be a fight, rather than them being sitting ducks in a fast moving bus.

That's India. USA has enough problems already as is with guns and you want guns allowed in all countries. You gun fanatics make me laugh.

Never thought that would happen, but I couldn't agree more with NovU on this.
This is beyond absurdity, the whole world can see it, but Americans can't, because of a piece of paper written when fucking muskets were being used.
This type of tragedy will just keep happening every few months, and we'll create yet another thread for it each time, and the very same things will keep being said in the media and on this site...and nothing will ever be done about it, because of people like this fucking retard crying about civil liberties and rights to protect oneself, when really, it's just all about not giving up their precious useless toys. It's not a violence problem, it's definitely the fact that guns of all types are so readily available.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby shadowgrin on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:25 am

^ That is why the French never won anything.



Gun ownership restriction won't solve anything.
A person with the intent to do crime doesn't care if owning a gun is illegal or not, he will use that gun to do what he wants and he will try to get his hands on a gun be it difficult or not.
Restricting ownership won't stop some people from getting their hands on a gun and using it to commit crime or murder.
Just look at the prohibition and how it stopped people from getting drunk.
Just even look at the present on some of the illegal drugs and how people aren't getting addicted from crack or heroin anymore.

I'd rather shoot someone who is a threat inside my house than wait for the police to arrive and shoot them after those who had threatened me had already shot me dead.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:30 am

NovU wrote:
bowdown wrote:There is this recent highly publicized rape incident out of my hometown New Delhi, India. It is a very disgusting and depressing story and it was accomplished because the 4 or 5 rapists used metal rods to beat a couple who they were giving a ride to in their bus at night. If one of the couple had a hand gun they wouldve atleast had a chance. This rape and murder was not committed by professional criminals but by friends who work for the bus company and they just decided to do what they did in the moment. What they did to the woman is incredibly sick and makes me lose hope in humanity.

One handgun couldve prevented this. Those rapists didnt have a handgun but still committed a very serious crime with iron rods on innocent people. If both the rapists and the couple had a gun then it would atleast be a fight, rather than them being sitting ducks in a fast moving bus.

That's India. USA has enough problems already as is with guns and you want guns allowed in all countries. You gun fanatics make me laugh.

Laugh at your own self fuckhead. Look, criminals can illegally get their hands on guns regardless of ANY laws and restrictions you come up with. There is a problem with guns the same way there is a problem with knives. People use knives to kill each other so we should put a restriction on all knives, sharp objects or whatever the fuck makes you shit yourself.

We should outlaw fire as well, all lighters and matches must be handed over because any mentally unstable person can burn down a whole building with a lot of innocent people inside it. If you are caught banging two rocks together that is a punishable offense as well.

"Gun problem". There is no gun problem. Problem is with people enjoying and fantasizing about violence. It all starts from the head. No technology is harmful unless it is used carelessly or with the wrong intent.

And I am no gun fanatic. I have never owned guns, come from a culture that doesnt have many guns and dont plan on getting into target practicing, hunting or collecting guns anytime soon. I just see a very logical use for them in keeping yourself safer in a vulnerable situation.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:08 am

el badman wrote:This is beyond absurdity, the whole world can see it, but Americans can't, because of a piece of paper written when fucking muskets were being used.

No, it's not.

This is about the right to self defense. And since I own myself, I inherently have the right to defend myself by whatever means I wish to. That brilliant piece of paper recognizes and uses the law to protect that right. The fact it was written during a period when you were not only allowed to own military arms, you were expected to and expected to be well-trained with them (no standing army) does not change the fact that humans have that right even if the document is changed or ignored to use the law to violate their rights. (And the fact that other states violate the rights of their citizens is quite frankly irrelevant. If all of Europe jumped off a bridge...)

There is no justification for returning the state of self-defense to that of feudal society where the lords held all the arms and the serfs were defenseless and weak. I have no qualms about saying modern society with more powerful individuals and greater class osmosis is far superior.
This type of tragedy will just keep happening every few months, and we'll create yet another thread for it each time, and the very same things will keep being said in the media and on this site...and nothing will ever be done about it

Because nothing can be.

How would violating the rights of people in Newtown or across the country stopped someone from using illegal guns to shoot people?

How would further violating the rights of Jose Guerena or Kathyrn Johnston have protected them from being killed by morally lacking men with guns?

How much violence will we add to society in attempting to deny the rights of 60+% of the citizenry and trying to confiscate the 300 million firearms?

It's a violence problem. End the violent prohibition of drugs and gun violence rates in this country will collapse. Expanding the peaceful efficiency of drug control to guns (and pushing that entire market underground) will only increase the amount of violence.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:15 am

bowdown, Thank you, for proving my point. Short fuse eh. I can't support the idea people like u carrying a gun around for the sake of self defense. Right...
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:33 am

And I can't support the idea of tyrants like you using guns to violate and suppress the rights of others.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:00 am

NovU wrote:bowdown, Thank you, for proving my point. Short fuse eh. I can't support the idea people like u carrying a gun around for the sake of self defense. Right...

Yeah you responded to me in a condescending manner while I was talking about a sensitive issue. You labelled me as a gun fanatic even though you didnt know anything about how I live my personal life (and then proceeded to "laugh at me" because it made you feel superior). Maybe if you didn't respond to people making reasonable arguments in a condescending manner they wouldn't get angry at you. Or do you prefer some kind of preferential treatment?

Here is an advice for you, dont talk down to somebody making a sincere point. The weakest thing to do is attack somebody out of nowhere and when they stand up and look you in the eye you say there is something wrong with them.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:13 pm

bowdown wrote:a sincere point.

Ok. Here's what I got from your sincere post, East Indian couples' needs to carry guns on bus so they can shoot gang rapists, which abruptly leads to the point "More guns make our community safer" if I'm right. smh...

Here is an advice for you too. Don't talk shit to somebody just because that somebody found your post absurd and challenged your idea. The weakest thing to do is losing it and being entirely moronic about it.



As for benji, I share bit different ideology. Gun rights are also privilege that should not be abused. There are too many with too much, who actually have no needs for them.

I understand though that better gun control law isn't going to be the solve-it-all answer to the problem as violence might be the cause beneath(as you pointed out). Funnily enough the gun sales have gone doubled due to fear of stricter gun control law and gun companies have never been happier. Certainly this notion is what I'm against that it'd be better if we all are equipped with guns since bad guys can access them easily.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:29 pm

NovU wrote:As for benji, I share bit different ideology. Gun rights are also privilege that should not be abused. There are too many with too much, who actually have no needs for them.

They are not a privilege. They are a right.

And you want to use guns "on your side" to take away the rights of others. You just refuse to proudly accept that fact.

What if I think you have too much speech, that you don't actually have need for? Or money. Or video games. Or Joel Anthony porn. Or food. Or legs. These are all just privileges that should not be abused, so I can use force to "reasonably restrict" them right?
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby JaoSming on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:38 pm

:( Reply timed out and Ben beat me

NovU wrote: Gun rights are also privilege that should not be abused. There are too many with too much, who actually have no needs for them.

'Murica bitch.

So what though, that argument is the same as saying no one should have luxury cars, big screen TVs in each room, or in the most comparable example, over a dozen rock band guitars. Limiting someone for the sake of limiting due to a lack of need is something our culture just does not, and will not, support or do.

If all those plastic guitars were assault rifles, would you be scared because someone could somehow carry all of them GTA style? Or that they would get a dozen of their buddies together and do something? What if there was a limitation of 1 assault rifle per person, would you be just as scared of those dozen friends with their own guns instead of someone elses? Do you see how a limitation of need does not affect anything?


To continue the rant, and give you something to respond to, it really is just a matter of guns being cool despite these tragedies. You can blame TV, movies, the news, video games, hell you can blame war veterans if you want. The power of using a gun is sexified in nearly any aspect of our society. It can change, just like gay/women/race rights, but it takes a change in societal views, definitely nothing that can happen overnight, even if it was started as a law.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:49 pm

Guns = hertage, culture, thus a right. That's where entire issue stems from. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one.

JaoSming wrote::( Reply timed out and Ben beat me

NovU wrote: Gun rights are also privilege that should not be abused. There are too many with too much, who actually have no needs for them.

'Murica bitch.

So what though, that argument is the same as saying no one should have luxury cars, big screen TVs in each room, or in the most comparable example, over a dozen rock band guitars. Limiting someone for the sake of limiting due to a lack of need is something our culture just does not, and will not, support or do.

If all those plastic guitars were assault rifles, would you be scared because someone could somehow carry all of them GTA style? Or that they would get a dozen of their buddies together and do something? What if there was a limitation of 1 assault rifle per person, would you be just as scared of those dozen friends with their own guns instead of someone elses? Do you see how a limitation of need does not affect anything?


To continue the rant, and give you something to respond to, it really is just a matter of guns being cool despite these tragedies. You can blame TV, movies, the news, video games, hell you can blame war veterans if you want. The power of using a gun is sexified in nearly any aspect of our society. It can change, just like gay/women/race rights, but it takes a change in societal views, definitely nothing that can happen overnight, even if it was started as a law.

You really want to put guns in the same context with luxury cars and children toys? Why not cocaine, dopes, and prostitutes?

And I am sure everyone realizes this is more than an issue of simple gun control law due to circustamces in america. Which is why it's a hot issue.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:58 pm

NovU wrote:Guns = hertage, culture, thus a right.

I already explained it up above, I'll highlight the key part you want to ignore:
This is about the right to self defense. And since I own myself, I inherently have the right to defend myself by whatever means I wish to. That brilliant piece of paper recognizes and uses the law to protect that right. The fact it was written during a period when you were not only allowed to own military arms, you were expected to and expected to be well-trained with them (no standing army) does not change the fact that humans have that right even if the document is changed or ignored to use the law to violate their rights. (And the fact that other states violate the rights of their citizens is quite frankly irrelevant. If all of Europe jumped off a bridge...)

There is no justification for returning the state of self-defense to that of feudal society where the lords held all the arms and the serfs were defenseless and weak. I have no qualms about saying modern society with more powerful individuals and greater class osmosis is far superior.

I want to allow citizens to maintain their rights.

You want to use guns to suppress and violate their rights.

And you're lucky I recognize the existence of natural rights or else you'd be up shit creek for posting anything from The Newsroom, let alone that tired and embarrassing clap-trap that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion or any other that's ever existed.

JaoSming wrote:To continue the rant, and give you something to respond to, it really is just a matter of guns being cool despite these tragedies. You can blame TV, movies, the news, video games, hell you can blame war veterans if you want. The power of using a gun is sexified in nearly any aspect of our society. It can change, just like gay/women/race rights, but it takes a change in societal views, definitely nothing that can happen overnight, even if it was started as a law.

Worse than that, that use is not just glorified but made necessary when your chosen form of free trade is being violently suppressed by morally stunted men with guns (that NovU wants to be the only ones with guns). As they are denied a moderated and fairly peaceful form of conflict resolution the rest of us are allowed they gravitate towards and thus uphold a much more violent one.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:26 pm

Bah. This discussion always boils down to 'rights' vs. 'civilians w/ guns doing more bad than good'. I'm not entirely against owning guns as I said but neither for every individual needing it for protection argument. That's that.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:33 pm

No, you're for using violent force (namely guns) to restrict the rights of citizens.

The only reason you're happy when that's done regarding guns is because you don't like guns. If I was in charge and using that power to roast the children of Heat fans alive with flashbangs while beating in Dwyane Wade's skull with Atlas Shrugged you'd be whining about your "precious rights" despite my objective facts about civilians* who support the Miami Heat doing more bad than good.

*And really go fuck yourself for that "civilians" bullshit.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby bowdown on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:25 pm

Yeah a couple carrying a concealed gun would have been 100% the best thing to do for themselves. End of story. Nobody should bother fuck with someone who is minding their own business. If you try to attack somebody then you have got something in your face waiting for you.

A law abiding citizen should not have anything to worry about in public. Carry a concealed gun, go to a restaurant, watch a movie, mingle with your lady friend, take the bus back home together. Nobody fucked with you which means you didnt even have to use your gun. It was a good day.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby NovU on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:45 am

benji wrote:No, you're for using violent force (namely guns) to restrict the rights of citizens.

The only reason you're happy when that's done regarding guns is because you don't like guns. If I was in charge and using that power to roast the children of Heat fans alive with flashbangs while beating in Dwyane Wade's skull with Atlas Shrugged you'd be whining about your "precious rights" despite my objective facts about civilians* who support the Miami Heat doing more bad than good.

Not true. Quit putting words in my mouth. Only thing you are discontent about this entire issue is that there are voice raised for needs of changes and concern to reduce gun crimes that centers around the topic of 'guns'.

benji wrote:*And really go fuck yourself for that "civilians" bullshit.

Well. U too buddy, with your 'self defense' bullshit against criminals who gets the first shot anyways and your own 'tyranny' government.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:24 am

NovU wrote:Not true. Quit putting words in my mouth.

I have not put any words in your mouth. Not once.

Are you or are you not advocating for the state to take away and prevent people from possessing whatever arms they want? Then you are LIT-ERALLY arguing in favor of using violent force (LIKELY GUNS) to restrict the rights of citizens.
Only thing you are discontent about this entire issue is that there are voice raised for needs of changes and concern to reduce gun crimes that centers around the topic of 'guns'.

What I am discontent about is the fact that some people want to use violence to restrict the rights of others. And I'm still somewhat discontent about "never let a crisis go to waste" although I expect it.
Well. U too buddy, with your 'self defense' bullshit against criminals who gets the first shot anyways and your own 'tyranny' government.

Self defense rights are not bullshit. It's the very core essence of possessing natural rights.

But separating us into "civilians" who have no rights and whatever the fuck you want to call the lords and knights you want to be the only ones to possess rights IS bullshit. Feudalistic bullshit.

And if you don't want to be considered a tyrant, I suggest you stop advocating for using violent force in suppressing the rights of your fellow man. (Especially considering they have done absolutely nothing to harm anyone and yet you still want to stomp their faces in.)
Last edited by benji on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby shadowgrin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:29 am

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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby dei. on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:41 pm

shadowgrin wrote:Image


:crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
shadowgrin wrote:Quick question: who is better in basketball, a black dude or a pinoy dude. If you thought or considered for a moment that it's the black dude then you're also a little bit racist.

End of any racist discussion.


Pinoy > Dallas Mavericks
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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby benji on Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:28 pm

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Re: Elementary school shooting in CT, 20 kids & more dead

Postby shadowgrin on Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:05 am

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