NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

[SoF'nAwesome]

Check out what Kobe has done for the Lakers this season. If it were any other team with no issues, certainly that team would have been on the top. And Durant is great. But if you check Kobe playing post all-star, I think Kobe would beat Durant. Because, he has been better than Durant on the 2nd half of this season.

[Andrew]

I could see him winning it (or finishing runner up) because a lot of sportswriters have him in the conversation, but it would be a very questionable. He's not having a terrible season individually, quite the opposite, but the Lakers are underachieving mightily despite adding two stars in the offseason and Kobe's had a lot of games where he's put up numbers while his teammates stood around and watched, with their record in games where he's scored a lot of points being very ordinary. Considering the things that LeBron and Durant have been doing all season long, Kobe getting MVP recognition this year just doesn't seem right.

[Kenny]

I guess it's hard for me to put him in the same conversation because he's averaging less points than Durant, while KD is doing 50-40-90. Durant also has to contend with his point guard taking more shots than him on a regular basis. I really hate using that Skip Bayless argument, but there is some validity to it. Of course, I think both will end up losing to LeBron James in the end as well. So I guess I agree with that.

[Andrew]

At this point, it has to be LeBron. You can make a case for others, but his remains the strongest.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Of course, LeBron by far. Though, he has not been his fullest this month but yet, I don't think anyone is near him on the race. Not Kobe, Durant nor Parker.

[Stress Fracture]

7th seed, baby! And #6 is up for grabs.

[NovU]

Lol, people are so quick to bring up Kobe's name again in the MVP discussion yet he hasn't even been the best at his position this season, far from it actually. Why aren't Wade, or Harden in the MVP discussion?

[SoF'nAwesome]

Wade started dominating recently, after getting fully healthy. He is in the discussion, but below those guys. And meh, Harden I wouldn't give so much. Though he is playing the best of his career

[Stress Fracture]

And meh, Harden I wouldn't give so much

And why is that?

[SoF'nAwesome]

Well, ultimately a player is bound to be judged on what his team is doing. And with Utah and Lakers, Rockets are still on the edge.

[NovU]

Didn't think I was going to say this but Harden arguably has played better than Wade this season, thus the Rockets are in the playoffs picture. Otherwise, the Rockets should be the bottom feeder along with the Bobcats just like all people predicted before Harden's joining. Only thing Kobe stands out above those two players are his usage rate. He played terrific shortly at the beginning of the season. After that, it's been all downhill. He has shot the team out of the game numerously, going back to chuck-the-shot-first-Kobe. He's started to picking it up a bit lately. That's about the story of the Lakers this season. Nothing supports him being the best at his position(forget MVP) this season, absolutely nothing. He always has been the part of the reason why the Lakers have struggled. This shouldn't come as a shock considering inefficient Kobe system that all other Lakers struggled to play under.

[Andrew]

And with Utah and Lakers, Rockets are still on the edge.

So...Harden isn't a worthy MVP candidate because his team is on the edge of the Playoffs (but currently in), yet Kobe is second only to LeBron in the discussion because his team is on the edge (but currently out)?

[SoF'nAwesome]

Andrew, lawyered?


I was saying that because, ultimately it will be Lakers or Rockets in the playoffs and most likely it will be the Lakers. Hence, Kobe is in the discussion. I am in no way taking Harden out of the list, but just putting Kobe in front of him.

[The X]

I'd put Harden over Kobe. Kobe's had a great year but shite, Rockets without Harden would be woeful. Lakers without Kobe, meh, Nash & Dwight would've played bigger roles & their win-loss wouldn't be significantly different.

[Andrew]

The Rockets are also a younger, less experienced team who have exceeded expectations while the Lakers are performing well below theirs, even considering the troubles they've had with injuries. I would also put Harden ahead of Kobe in the discussion and I'm not too sure about the Lakers making it ahead of the Rockets. If anyone drops out of the top eight to make way for the Lakers, I'm guessing it's the Jazz, not the Rockets.

[SoF'nAwesome]

It's funny though. Lakers without Kobe & Rockets without Harden, both wouldn't make the playoffs. Andrew, I don't know why you are ruling out Jazz. They are the ones ahead atm...but let's see what happens.

[Andrew]

Andrew, I don't know why you are ruling out Jazz. They are the ones ahead atm...but let's see what happens.

Ahead of who? The Rockets? Because nope, they're not.

Standings as of this post:

7. Rockets (34-30)
8. Jazz (32-31)
9. Lakers (32-31)

I'm suggesting the Jazz will be the ones on the outside looking in should the Lakers crack the top eight, because right now they are in eighth place, having an identical record to the Lakers and tenuously in the top eight on a tiebreaker. Indeed, a victory over the Bulls tomorrow will put the Lakers in the eighth seed, knocking the Jazz out of the top eight at least momentarily.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Sorry, I guess I mixed it up a bit. Ya,

I kinda feel embarrassed lol

[Kenny]

The Jazz slump came at a perfect time for the Lakers. I don't really understand why they're persisting with Gordon Hayward off the bench. Seriously, DeMarre Carroll is a starter?

[Andrew]

I kinda feel embarrassed lol

The Jazz were actually in seventh place until recently. Their recent slide has dropped them to eighth and left them on the brink of being overtaken by the Lakers.

The Jazz slump came at a perfect time for the Lakers. I don't really understand why they're persisting with Gordon Hayward off the bench. Seriously, DeMarre Carroll is a starter?

Perhaps Tyrone Corbin is trying the Manu Ginobili approach, believing Hayward bolsters the bench and gives them an advantage when the second units are butting heads late in the first/early in the second. If so, he's overlooking the fact that the Spurs are in a far better position to make that work, given the players on their roster.

[NovU]

Just a few weeks ago, it seemed nearly impossible for the Lakers to make the playoffs. But suddenly things start to fall into places perfectly. Not just the Lakers, but with UTA as well. What a coincidence.

Lakers without Kobe, meh, Nash & Dwight would've played bigger roles & their win-loss wouldn't be significantly different.

It's not even funny when it comes to W-L in Kobe Bryant's career. Here's a stats of W-L from Lakers' 3 distinctive era Kobe played in, excluding the last one as it is still being written at this very moment.

The Lakers in 3peat-era:
Without Shaq: 13-12 (.520)
Without Kobe: 28-6(.823)
Without both: 0-1(.000)
With both: 140-46(.753)

HOLY SHIT! The Lakers were a better team without Kobe(who was the next-MJ of the NBA)?! It's no surprise. The Lakers were at their best when they ran their offense through Shaq(who was the most dominant big man ever). Often young immature Kobe tried to be da "MAN" and tried to steal the show, it hurt the team. He was an asset when he did play under the system though.

Middle three years(post Shaq Lakers) 04-07
04-05 With Kobe: 28-38(.424)
04-05 Without Kobe: 6-10(.375)
04-05 Without Odom: 2-14(.125)
05-06(Phil Jackson Returns!) Lakers 43-35(.563), w/o Kobe: 0-2, but w/o Odom: 0-2 as well
06-07 With Kobe: 39-38(.506)
06-07 Without Kobe: 3-2(.600)
06-07 With Odom: 30-26(.536)
06-07 Without Odom: 12-14(.462)

Lol, Odom.

With Pau/Andrew/Lamar(07-11)
07-08 Kobe played full season: With either Gasol, Odom, Bynum: 46-15(.754)
07-08 Kobe played full season: Without at least two bigs: 11-10(.524)
08-09 Kobe played full season: Bynum 50: Gasol 81: Odom 78: 65-17(.793)
09-10 Kobe missed 9: Disregarding 4 at-the-season-end games(clinched): 4-1(.800)
- Wins against: POR(by 17), SAS(by 12), UTA(by 15), GSW(by 10)
- Loss against: BOS(by 1)
09-10 With Kobe: 51-22(.699)
10-11 Kobe played full season: 57-25(.695)

Spectacularly impressive for a player who's constantly being put in the all-time greats, and MVP discussion.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Stat storm

[NovU]

My bad. Forgive me for being an idiot. After all these years yet I forget again. I shoudn't have applied any form of stats or logic to a Kobe discussion. It's forbidden.

[SoF'nAwesome]

nice one

Hold off the Kobe VS Harden discussion for a while, 'cause soon one of them will be out of the discussion and if that one is Kobe then I guess 'zee end.

[Stress Fracture]

Hold off the Kobe VS Harden discussion for a while, 'cause soon one of them will be out of the discussion and if that one is Kobe then I guess 'zee end.

Has there been any debate? There seems to be none.