John Salley: MJ not top five all-time

[benji]

The one thing I enjoy about the rabid Kobe cultist is how much they can't grasp just how historically unremarkable Kobe's career is when you're discussing all-time greats. He shows up in nothing, literally nothing, in terms of any kind of gathered statistical performance. (Except usage.) He's never been the best player in the league, wasn't even top three for any period of time, has maybe one transcendent season. (But even that falls short of the simply flatout amazing all-time season McGrady put up.)

Yet for whatever reason he's constantly being put in the top ten of all-time players. When even getting him into the top 25 takes a lot of leaps of logic.

Kobe should be discussed in the context of a George Gervin or Clyde Drexler. Not Michael Jordan.

[koberulz]

What was so remarkable about McGrady's 02-03 season? I see that brought up plenty, but it never gets elaborated on.

And how does Kobe's 02-03 season stack up? He broke the 3PM record for a game, scored 40 in nine straight, dropped 55 on the Wizards in three quarters without even trying, and topped 50 through three one or two other times that year as well. On a team that actually had another decent player. Did he completely suck the rest of the year?

[NovU]

The best part is that they never forget to bring "WATCH THE GAME" and "UR A STAT READER" cards to the table. In all 82 games of season in countless Kobe's career, they probably watched handful of Kobe's games but more highlight reels that shows his usual contested but somehow made shots which seem to last in their mind forever. The bad games are dismissed in their mind and they never happened as Sportscenter bypasses it. They have hard time accepting the fact that stats actually captured all those bad games. I mean how dare it include 4/20 shooting nights! It's Kobe! Kobe, the great one! Never happened. Done and done.

Their next usual card is "Kobe's skills". Fancy footworks, tough fadeaways, and his friendly elbow moves, all look amazing and people love it. More so, the media loves it very much! They never forget to cash in on his spectacular moves. Mesmerized by his shots shown on Sportscenter, Kobe has the greatest skills in the history and is better than LBJ and MJ. Anyone that can't accept that don't know nothing about basketball! Lol? Other skills simply don't matter to them. Running off screens well to get an open shot, setting your position well for the putback or for your team to find you so you can be a slasher/spot-up-shooter, abilities like these aren't considered as skills because they're boring. Just not the same 2 points basket to them. And then there is this notion. Basketball requires more of 1 on 1 skillsets. How about skills to get your teammates get into a rhythm, involve them, mesh into them, or make them better.

Yet it's still a myth to people why stats and analysts don't hold Kobe in high regards at the same level with MJ or LBJ.

Ultimately MJ was superior in all regards even compared to any other legend historically and MJ does NOT belong in this discussion AT ALL. Despite Kobe going all in with his utmost effort to score, he's never been as good of a scorer as MJ. The comparison flat out fails even more in all other departments.

The one thing I enjoy about the rabid Kobe cultist is how much they can't grasp just how historically unremarkable Kobe's career is when you're discussing all-time greats. He shows up in nothing, literally nothing, in terms of any kind of gathered statistical performance. (Except usage.) He's never been the best player in the league, wasn't even top three for any period of time, has maybe one transcendent season. (But even that falls short of the simply flatout amazing all-time season McGrady put up.)

Yet for whatever reason he's constantly being put in the top ten of all-time players. When even getting him into the top 25 takes a lot of leaps of logic.

Kobe should be discussed in the context of a George Gervin or Clyde Drexler. Not Michael Jordan.

Word. Kobe cultists should be thankful that I put him on a same page with Wade. Even that's me being generous to Kobe.

[benji]

What was so remarkable about McGrady's 02-03 season? I see that brought up plenty, but it never gets elaborated on.

http://bkref.com/tiny/FLGSK

It's an ungodly offensive season for a perimeter player. He took six threes a game and hit 39%. Led his position in turnover rate. Yet also led the league in Usage, PER, scoring, etc.

And how does Kobe's 02-03 season stack up? He broke the 3PM record for a game, scored 40 in nine straight, dropped 55 on the Wizards in three quarters without even trying, and topped 50 through three one or two other times that year as well. On a team that actually had another decent player. Did he completely suck the rest of the year?

lol

[shadowgrin]

The one thing I enjoy about the rabid Kobe cultist is how much they can't grasp just how historically unremarkable Kobe's career is when you're discussing all-time greats. He shows up in nothing, literally nothing, in terms of any kind of gathered statistical performance. (Except usage.) He's never been the best player in the league, wasn't even top three for any period of time, has maybe one transcendent season. (But even that falls short of the simply flatout amazing all-time season McGrady put up.)

Yet for whatever reason he's constantly being put in the top ten of all-time players. When even getting him into the top 25 takes a lot of leaps of logic.

Kobe should be discussed in the context of a George Gervin or Clyde Drexler. Not Michael Jordan.

[hrbulls]

The most help MJ ever had was Pippen, who is nowhere near the level of Shaq. Or perhaps even Pau.

Pippen, a Hall of Famer but not on the same level as Pau? Talk about the "stupidest thing I've ever heard"

If you actually watched MJ's games in his prime, you would know he played in 1998, which is hardly the early 90s. Also, 2001-03, which dragged his average down significantly.

Love the first sentence you just threw out because in 98, MJ was way past his prime. This just proved YOU never watched MJ's actual games.

Nothing else is needed to be said. LOL.

I feel almost sorry for you. You are quite misled. The stats entirely records/captures what happens on the floor. If you only meant boxscore stats, yes, it can be sometimes misleading and it does make Kobe look MJ-like sometimes. Get out of that small box and learn more about actual statistics that basketball analysts rely on. It's just a display of your ignorance since you don't even know what they're about nor their significant meanings. No offense but it's just uber ignorant. Or please do prove me wrong by convincing me how stats are misleading.

Stats don't entirely measure the whole story. Kareem is the all-time scoring leader, but he barely makes everyone's top 5 of all-time. Bill Russell has nearly double the amount of rings that MJ has, could you make the argument that he is "the greatest of all time"?

Lolz. Are you serious about this? Kobe arguably has never been the best player on his championship team. But in MJ's runs, he was a dominant force the whole time. And he was significantly the best player in his era. Kobe? Not even for a single season.

Kobe can't even represent for a single season. How do you expect him to be better than MJ who represents for entire decade and beyond. The bottomline is that MJ was the best in his generation while Kobe never was, not even for a single season.

Shaq was "the man" during their 3-peat title run. How do you pay someone $100+ million to be second option? After Shaq left, LA was in somewhat of a rebuild mode. A young Caron Butler and a young Lamar Odom wasn't going to get it done. Hence the number of shots by Kobe.

Lol. No sir you didn't. Otherwise you wouldn't even believe what you are saying right now. Or you just don't know basketball. Ignorance is a bliss I guess.

"Ignorance is a bliss" because you're simply denying Kobe's greatness?

Being with Shaq didn't really matter in Stats for Kobe unless you are only talking about points per game which is meaningless since more shots means more points anyways. When Shaq was gone, Kobe went totally ballistic(historic ball usage, lol) and took all the shots in the world at about same efficiency. That doesn't make him a better player than Shaq-era-Kobe. Means just shot more and scored more. And in trade, he totally disappeared on defensive end.

Refer to response above.

If you think Kobe's 12 All-Defense teams are all well-deserved, this just proves you don't watch NBA games.

Once isn't a fluke but 12 is? I don't get this guy...

What exactly proved my lack of knowledge there? Stating that the Raptors were a shitty defensive team or perhaps stating that scoring 81 points once is not a valid argument for being a better player?

If I lack knowledge about everything so badly, please explain why Jordan was only a slightly better defender than Kobe.

I guess you lack the comprehension of what has been previously stated. Allow me to explain one last time: Kobe guarded LeBron, Melo, D-Wade, KD, etc. MJ guarded who again?

Especially in the 2008 Finals when he was guarding Rondo and his dirty work guy was probably Luke Walton or Vladimir Radmanovic. Then there were the series against the Suns in 2006 and 2007 when he was guarding Raja Bell and leaving the dirty work to Luke Walton and Smush Parker, I guess. And then there was of course his epic defense on Bruce Bowen against the Spurs in 2008. You apparently lack knowledge when the Lakers signed Ron Artest and what was going on there before that. After the Shaq era, Kobe never takes on the toughest assignments defensively. So far, you're doing a great job at proving literally nothing and being a broken record. Go on!

LOL. If you actually watched the games, you would know that Luke Walton barely saw game-time in 08 Finals. You should be banned from talking basketball.

And he went 3/21 against a D-League Hornets team last season. What a loser.

But yet, MJ has always had perfect games past his prime? You have astounding knowledge!

I'm starting to believe this is just some serious trolling the guy is doing here.

LOL... I believe you're speaking of yourself here. You have yet to say anything of sufficient to your claims.

[Spree#8]

Once isn't a fluke but 12 is? I don't get this guy...

What you don't get is that Kobe stopped caring about defense almost 10 years ago by now. All his All-Defense nominations after 2003 are based solely on reputation, because he was once a very good defender.

I guess you lack the comprehension of what has been previously stated. Allow me to explain one last time: Kobe guarded LeBron, Melo, D-Wade, KD, etc. MJ guarded who again?

Allow me to ask one last time: when exactly did Kobe guard LeBron, Melo, D-Wade, KD, etc.? For more than one or two possessions, please.

LOL. If you actually watched the games, you would know that Luke Walton barely saw game-time in 08 Finals.

Luke Walton was a rotation role player in the 2008 Finals, he averaged 11 minutes per game off the bench and played in all six games. Most of the time at the SF position was split between him and Radmanovic (who also got mentioned by me in the previous post), who was starting and averaging 21,5 minutes per game. Any other interesting theories?

You should be banned from talking basketball.

Oh no.

I also love how you completely ignored all of the other examples I gave.

But yet, MJ has always had perfect games past his prime? You have astounding knowledge!

Funny! Yet Kobe scores 60 points in three quarters every game and 81 points on HOF Raptors teams everytime he feels like it.

I believe you're speaking of yourself here.

Wow, you totally got me here. I admire your brainpower for figuring out that I was actually referring to myself.

You have yet to say anything of sufficient to your claims.

Are you sure you're the right person to be saying something like this?

[hrbulls]

What you don't get is that Kobe stopped caring about defense almost 10 years ago by now. All his All-Defense nominations after 2003 are based solely on reputation, because he was once a very good defender.

LOL. Easily one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard. How does someone win 5 titles and "stopped caring about defense almost 10 years ago"? He was in the beginning part of his prime!

This is my final response to you, as per your lack of knowledge for the game. Clearly your opinions are biased and subjective. Good day, son!

[Spree#8]

And what do titles have to do with that? Apparently a player has to be an elite defender to be part of a championship team.

An opinion can't be objective. But anyway, obviously you're the only person in this thread with knowledge of basketball and reasonable thoughts. Everyone else is biased and stupid.

I can't believe I still even bother.

[NovU]

And what do titles have to do with that? Apparently a player has to be an elite defender to be part of a championship team.

Absolutely nothing. Otherwise players like Bosh or Dirk wouldn't have a title.

This hrbulls kid is just a liar and a troll with Kobe's cock in his mouth. He obviously hasn't seen a single MJ game and is a perfect example of brainwashed by medias and league. Every single one of this kid's logic and comeback argument have been shittier than dirrhea in my dog's poopbox.

[Sauru]

i really just need to point out that dropping 63 on boston in the garden during the playoffs impresses me a shit ton more than 81 against the raptors in a meaningless game


also i refuse to believe you watched any basketball during jordans years if the best you can come up with is john starks and bryon russell

and one last thing, comparing pau to pippen is about as bad as comparing pippen to shaq(not sure who mentioned this but wow what an insult to pippen)

[_Steve_]

i really just need to point out that dropping 63 on boston in the garden during the playoffs impresses me a shit ton more than 81 against the raptors in a meaningless game

I second that. Although I'm not sure whether I'm more impressed by the 63 against Boston or by Jordan's 38 pts with flu like sympthoms, when Pippen had to lead/carry him off the court...

also i refuse to believe you watched any basketball during jordans years if the best you can come up with is john starks and bryon russell

Yeah, what about Danny Ainge...

and one last thing, comparing pau to pippen is about as bad as comparing pippen to shaq(not sure who mentioned this but wow what an insult to pippen)

Again, I second that.

[NovU]

Sorry but that's some bullshit, sauru. If Kobe can be compared to Pippen or Jordan, Pau has more than all the rights in the world than Kobe to be allowed in this discussion. Pau is a great player in his own rights. I can't understand how people keep on forgetting to give him credits due but instead loves to praise Kobe, especially for the Lakers' last two championship runs. The only reason he received MVP awards was because of everyone's stupid notion that the Lakers were Kobe's team. It was Gasol that became an instant best player when he first went to the Lakers. That was up until Pau's decline while Bynum's surging.

Here, and allow me to summarize since it's a lengthy read and a lot of people here hate reading but loves sportscenter. If you have chance, do read though. Fun yet educative especially for Kobe nut huggers.

"The lakers record before Fisher and Pau Gasol mad a entrance into the Lakers uniform was 121-125, they weren't even a playoff team with that record, but when fisher returned to the Lakers, they were 29-16, but when Gasol came through...their record was 28-9 and HE was responsible for the lakers getting past the first round, not Kobe. In 2 seasons and 37 games, the Laker's record since they have acquired Pau Gasol the Lakers record is currently 138-45!!! This prove that Pau gasol is the most important piece of this Los Angeles Lakers rather than Kobe Bryant....People keep implying that Kobe was primarily responsible for the Lakers winning 65 games which that is totally wrong!! Coming into March 9th, 2009, they Lakers were 50-12 and Gasol was the main reason why and i'm gonna break this down the stats IN CONTEXT!!"

Pau Gasol in 2009 Season as a Laker: 81 Starts, 64 Wins, 17 Losses, 37 Double-Doubles, 1 Triple-Double
18.9 Points Per Game shooting at a impressive 56.7%[57%] from the field, 12.9 Field Goal Attempts Per Game, 9.6 Rebounds Per Game, 1.0 Blocks Per Game, 3.5 Assists Per Game

For single seasons, in the regular season, in 2008-09, sorted by descending Win Shares.
1.) LeBron James 20.3 Win Shares
2.) Chris Paul 18.3 Win Shares
3.) Dwayne Wade 14.7 Win Shares
4.) Pau Gasol 13.9 Win Shares
5.) Dwight Howard 13.8 Win Shares
6.) Brandon Roy 13.5 Win Shares
7.) Kobe Bryant 12.7 Win Shares
8.) Ray Allen 11.1 Win Shares
9.) Dirk Nowitzki 10.9 Win Shares
10.) Yao Ming 19.6 Win Shares
In 2004 they won 50 games in Memphis. In 2005 45 wins and the playoffs, and in 2006 49 wins and the playoffs. It's not as if they did nothing. The Lakers didn't win a playoff series post-Shaq until last year, when Gasol arrived."

Pau Gasol Vs Kobe Bryant in the 2009-2010 NBA Season:
Regular Season:
PAU GASOL: 18.3 POINTS PER GAME SHOOTING AT 54% FROM THE FIELD, GRABBING 11.3 REBOUND PER GAME, 1.70 BLOCKS PER GAME, 3.40 ASSISTS PER GAME [COMPARED TO KOBE'S 5.0 APG, ONLY A 1.6 DIFFERENCE] AND PAU GASOL HAS 40 DOUBLE DOUBLES!!!
KOBE BRYANT: 27 PPG, SHOOTING A 45.6%, GRABBING 5.4 RBG, 1.6 SPG, 5.0 APG AND ONLY GRABBED 7 DOUBLE DOUBLES!!

Player Efficiency Rating (Top 20):
8. Pau Gasol-LAL 22.9
13. Kobe Bryant-LAL 21.9

Offensive Win Shares (Top 20):
15. Pau Gasol-LAL 6.8
Kobe: NOT ON THE LIST!

Defensive Win Shares (Top 20):
15. Pau Gasol-LAL 4.2
18. Kobe Bryant-LAL 4.0

WinShares (Top 20):
7. Pau Gasol-LAL 11.0
Kobe: NOT ON THE LIST!!

Kobe = Sidekick!!

1.) HILARIOUS STAT....
Kobe is 333-808 .410% in 37 career finals games
Kobe 333 makes,475 misses

2.) his next stat will reveal it all when it comes to the difference between michael jordan and kobe....
NBA Finals Comparision

Kobe has 937 pts and 475 misses in 37 games
Mike has 1,176 pts and 473 misses in 35 games
why does Kobe have more misses,yet 239 fewer points in the nba finals?......

finals comparison
Kobe is 333-808 .410%
Magic is 339-657 .516%
Kobe=sidekick

3.) Kobe will set a playoff record next year.....most seasons as a sidekick....lmaoo....but seriously(though he is a sidekick),kobe will set the nba playoff record for misses.....yet the guy he passes will have far more pts due to much better efficiency

Mike- 5987 pts...2309 misses,most alltime
Kobe- 5052 pts....2213 misses 2nd most
lmaoooo.....Kobe needs 97 more misses to become the alltime playoff leader.....Kobe missed 97 shots in the 2010 finals and was finals mvp!...LOLOL

4.) Kobe has more minutes in his playoff career than michael jordan....yet he still has far less points....lmaoooo

Kobe- 5052 pts in 7811 minutes
Mike- 5987 pts in 7474 minutes
here is some perspective....
Kobe has ALREADY played more minutes than Jordan,and would still have fewer points that jordan if Kobe were to score 81 pts TEN TIMES IN A ROW....lmao...Jordan was a scoring machine,scoring at a much higher rate than Kobe....kobe did score 81 vs the 06 Raptors though..lolol

4.) can u explain these stats between Kobe and Wade.....both guys played the celtics in the playoffs <--- Fuck I love this, Lol.

Kobe- shot 66-163 .400% in 7 games....a title and finals mvp
Wade- shot 62-110 .564% in 5 games....1st round exit.....
lmaooo....let me guess,the celtics werent worried about stopping Wade....they were worried about Chalmers and Haslem....lmaooooo
Wade as a defensive focal point was way better than Kobe.....but he doesnt have Gasol
Kobe=sidekick...lmaoooooo

5.) Obviously...........considers Hakeem Olajuwon soft....rebound comparisons during 2 title runs....

1st titles
Hakeem 11.0 rpg in 43.0 mpg
Gasol--- 10.8 rpg in 40.5 mpg
2nd titles
Hakeem 10.3 rpg in 42.2 mpg
Gasol---- 11.1 rpg in 39.7 mpg
if he considers gasol a sissy,surely he would think the same of Hakeem....Gasol did rebound at a higher rate

6.) ....as a laker fan u should be very happy....if you are a Kobe fan,you cant be happy about his legacy decreasing by the title......lmaooo....

6-24 and his team wins.....continuing to be the worst big game player ever.....
37-97 .360% in game 7's
38-108 .352% in title winning games
41% in 37 finals games....
66-163 .400% to win finals mvp....lowest fg% ever for a finals mvp....lmaoooo....as a laker fan,be happy....but if u are a Kobe fan,then point and laugh at the man

7) Skip. Too long.

8) Kobe compared to Jordan?.....lmaoooooo
Jordan made 73 fgas in 6 title clinchers
Kobe made 38 fgs in 5 title clinchers
lmaooo.....where was Kobes 81?....lmaoooooo.....
Kobe= never cracked 41 in the finals....ever...ever....

9) Skipping it but read if you want, from the site. Interesting.

10) Wade lit the Celtics up....
Wade- 62-110 .564% in 5 games
Kobe- 66-163 .400% in 7 games
lmao...Wade on the Lakers=historic team

what does the Celtics defense have to do with......

Kobe shooting 38-108 .352% in 5 title clinching games?
Kobe shooting .410% in his finals career
Kobe shooting 37-97 .350% in game 7s
only finals MVP with no games shooting 50%....and he did it twice!
I URGE ANYONE TO REFUTE THESE STATS
lmaooooo

10) long story short...
thinks about these facts carefully for a minute...Kobe fans were raving about his regular season gamewinners.....even though he is 26-89 in his career on gamewinners...Kobe 0-2 in the playoffs on gamewinners,and each time gasol or artest put it right back in!...lmaoo...the story of kobes PLAYOFF CAREER....Shaq is #1 in playoff history in offensive rbs....THANKS KOBE...Gasol grabbed 9 offensive rbs to win it all!!...

Kobes misses are padding Shaq/Gasols offensive rebound stats!!

in 12 Finals games, Pau Gasol has had 7 STRAIGHT GAMES WHERE HE SHOT AT OVER 50% from the field! up until Game 3 vs the Celtics....


Pau Gasol in the 2009 NBA FINALS
Game 1: 58.3 Percent from the field
Game 2: 50 Percent from the field
Game 3: 81.8 Percent from the field
Game 4: 50 Percent from the field
Game 5: 66.7 Percent from the field

Pau Gasol in the 2010 NBA FINALS
Game 1: 57.1 Percent from the field
Game 2: 70 Percent from the field
Game 3: 45.5 Percent from the field
Game 4: 46.2 Percent from the field
Game 5: 41.7 Percent from the field
Game 6: 42.9 Percent from the field
Game 7: 37.5 Percent from the field

Pau & Kobe in the 2009 Finals:
Pau 18.6 Ppg Shooting at 61 Percent from the Field in 5 Games, 9.20 Rpg, 1.80 Bpg 1 turnover Per Game
Kobe 32.4Ppg Shooting at 42.9% [43%] From the field in 5 Games, 7.4 Apg, 5.60 Rpg, 1.40 Spg, 1.40 Bpg. 3.20 Turnovers Per Game. Not Bad overrall but not excellent neither

Pau & Kobe in the 2010 Finals:
Pau 18.6 Ppg Shooting at 47.8 Percent From the Field [48%] 11.5 Rpg, 2.6 Bpg
Kobe: 28.6 Ppg Shooting at 40% from the field 8.o Rpg, 3.9 Apg [Ball Hog!] 2.1 Spg

The NBA Finals Efficency Rating Bewteen Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen from 1991-1998 and Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant from 2000-2002 and Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant from 2009-2010:
NBA Finals 1991
Michael Jordan 32.7
Scottie Pippen 24.0,

NBA Finals 1992
Michael Jordan 31.1
Scottie Pippen 26.1,

NBA Finals 1993
Michael Jordan 31.6
Scottie Pippen 22.5,

NBA Finals 1996
Michael Jordan 28.9
Scottie Pippen 21.7,

NBA Finals 1997
Michael Jordan 27.0
Scottie Pippen 22.4,

NBA Finals 1998
Michael Jordan 23.4
Scottie Pippen 20.5.

NBA Finals 2000
Shaquille O'Neal 33.8
Kobe Bryant 22.9,

NBA Finals 2001
Shaquille O'Neal 31.0
Kobe Bryant 25.3,

NBA Finals 2002
Shaquille O'Neal 28.5
Kobe Bryant 23.5,

NBA Finals 2009
Pau Gasol 24.9
Kobe Bryant 24.2,

NBA Finals 2010
Pau Gasol 25.2
Kobe Bryant 22.9.

So tell me who has done better overall on the biggest stage of em all?

Kobe's always NEEDED the game's current most dominant or skilled Big Man to get it done in the playoffs. MJ didn't! Look at L.A.'s record without Shaq or Gasol:

2005 (34-48)
2006 (45-37)
2007 (42-40)

They missed the playoffs ENTIRELY 1 year, and were eliminated TWICE in the 1st round! In 2008 B4 Gasol's arrival, the Lakers were 29-16, but after he shows up, they go 28-9 down the stretch..that's literally an overnight turnaround LOL!!"

Even briefing this was tough because there are so many facts out there proving how overrated Kobe was and how underrated Pau was.

[shadowgrin]

Why should I go to and read a website with terrible text layout and design when I could just spend 5-15 minutes in b-r to know the same thing and maybe even more that relate to it.

[NovU]

Some people r b-r illiterate/allergic. But ur rite, a horrid looking layout. lol

[_Steve_]

Can't take anyone for serious who finishes almost every "sentence" with: "Lmaoooo".

[shadowgrin]

Even if it's quoted, you just did.

[NovU]

Apparently, it not just 1 guy but many from different sources such as forum replies and such. You don't have to take them seriously but what's obviously serious here is misperception on Kobe by so many people.

[Sauru]

i refuse to put Gasol in the same category as Pippen. now i am not saying he is not a damn good player i am just saying he is no Pippen. though i would like to add that gasol catches way to much shit for laker loses

[NovU]

though i would like to add that gasol catches way to much shit for laker loses

Perhaps due to his last season. He became a mere average player from one of the better bigs. The biggest decline out of all Lakers marquee players. To be fair, it is said that he was forced to be a facilitator and was often playing out of his comfort zone. (Or got tired of Kobe using up all the usages. Or just aging.) Unhappy overall.

What scares me the most about these Lakers team though is that Kobe got another best big man in this era with Dwight. Kobe's luck never seems to run out. And with Nash, that's another threat in the mix. Not only he's a better playmaker than PGs the Lakers ever had since Magic, Pau also gets to go back to his comfort zone from being a facilitator. The best lowpost tandem ever since Duncan/Robinson?

[Jackal]

It's not so much that Kobe is lucky, it's more that management does a fantastic job and them being located in Los Angeles sure helps in this day and age of attention whoring.

[_Steve_]

Adding to the discussion I found this

phpBB [video]

which doesn't mirror my opinion on that matter.

[Mandich]

Why the fuck are you having a GOAT debate without including the White mamba ?

[NovU]

That kind of video is exactly why we've had this discussion. Creates hype from highlight reels and becomes gravy to the media feeding frenzy. The league wants fans and media wants a hero. Win win for both sides. Some casual fans just fall for it. Just like that, another Kobe4goat fan is created. OMG KOBE CAN PULL MJ'S MOVES. HE'S GOTTA BE BETTER THAN MJ! When that really doesn't mean much at all. There's more to a game of basketball. Whether you make Kobe's spectacular shot or Tim Duncan's boring lay up, it's still a same basket made, same 2 points earned. Production is what matters, not how good it looks. 1 great looking shot out of 5 possessions used is a shit basketball.

[_Steve_]

I just try to imagine how playing with a shit basketball might be... Disgusting!