Lakers Thread

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:13 am

What's funny is that they were hyping how balanced the scoring was and usually what most announcers talk about is bullshit filler, but when I think about it, it indeed a solid, balanced game where everyone on the team contributed. If they're able to have a balanced attack like that, they'll be winning more games this year for sure.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:56 am

lopez is almost like KAT on the twovles as they are both the best 3pt shooter on the starting 5. even robin lopez is scoring more in the paint than his brother. i agree he should be in the paint more. Is this Walton's gameplan and/or due to lack of spacing?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:49 am

air gordon wrote:lopez is almost like KAT on the twovles as they are both the best 3pt shooter on the starting 5. even robin lopez is scoring more in the paint than his brother. i agree he should be in the paint more. Is this Walton's gameplan and/or due to lack of spacing?


It's a combination of both. They need the lanes for Ball/Ingram and getting Lopez to camp out sort of draws the opposing big out. But in transition it also happens that he stops at the three since he's usually last guy down the court.

It's a weird time in the NBA, bigs becoming the best shooter on a team and all.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:44 am

i think nance's lack of outside shot is a bigger hindrance to the driving lanes than lopez being in the lane

haven't looked at 5 man lineups stats sorry... does lopez-kuzma combo get any run?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:40 am

Yes I agree a lot of times Nance gets the ball at the top of the key or elbow and can't do anything because he can't hit that shot and can't dribble well enough to drive in there.

Lopez doesn't get much run after starting the 1st and 3rd so he doesn't play with kuz much
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:10 am

air gordon wrote:i think nance's lack of outside shot is a bigger hindrance to the driving lanes than lopez being in the lane

haven't looked at 5 man lineups stats sorry... does lopez-kuzma combo get any run?


Agreed, he hesitates a lot on the 17-18 footer, hopefully he either gets more comfortable with that and even extends his range. That'll probably have to wait till he's back from his injury though.

What a heartbreak loss to the Blazers. Was a great game though, the young Lakers are amazingly fun to watch. What an amazing effort on their part on defense. They came back from like 18 points down, as a fan that's all you can ask for; effort.

Real dagger there by Dame to win it. Big shot. Really good game. Get well soon Nance!
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:47 am

Lopez and walton must read this forum hahaha. vintage scoring game for big brook

so randle or kuzma to start? or maybe even dust off deng to see if he's got anything in the tank.

id sacrifice the D and start kuzma
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:30 am

Lopez really got going once Nurkic started going at him. There was a good stretch where they were just trading baskets.

Knowing Luke it really wouldn't surprise me if he started Deng or something like that just to keep the bench mob intact.

Quite the conundrum, you've got Randle who is really playing his ass off and pretty much deserves it, but you want his motor in shorter spurts so it would seem most logical to start Kuz, but then you're missing an integral part of the bench again which would lead to Tyler Ennis probably playing and that's never a good thing.

I'm glad you mentioned the defense, Nance, while not having much of an offensive arsenal, really does a good job defensively. Once he figured out the guard to Nurkic pick and roll, his slide overs and defensive switching became much better.

I'm really digging this team. They try at least.

In Randle's absence, I really wouldn't mind seeing some spot minutes for Thomas Bryant either.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:41 am

Haha we had just got done talking about what Lopez doesn't do and then he goes out and proves us wrong.

Yeah Luke will probably do something dumb like start Deng but Randle is a better fit for the starters so he doesn't have to guard opposing centers
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Sauru on Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:09 pm

ball is a bust you should trade him to brooklyn for that russell guy. might have to to throw in a future first
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:29 pm

You shut your whore mouth.

But seriously though, kid is going to be fine. All this talk about his terrible shooting, inability to score blah blah...he'll be fine. He's hardly got any strength to him which affects his finishing ability. His shot is a bit slow, but I think it'll be fine. People are calling him a bust and all for real.

The folks that were gunning for Ingram just moved on to Ball now.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:27 pm

Tough loss to Boston, they dug their way out of that 21-point hole but just couldn't regain the lead. Helps having a closer like Irving on the team.

First the rant:
Wtf is up with Walton's rotation? Where did Bogut pop up from suddenly? Randle has been beasting off the bench, he has every right to be first big off the bench. Especially when they just run p&r to abuse Lopez. Randle can switch a lot easier and I found it odd Bogut got spot minutes before him.

Now the compliment:
For all the shit I give Walton for his rotations, I've got to commend him & the coaching staff for instilling the proper way to play basketball over these last few years. They play hard on defense, they try to share the basketball and make the right plays and it's a welcome change as a watcher after Brown, Byron & old Mamba.

I feel Ingram should be a much better defender given his length and I'm still hoping that comes as he progresses. Ball has been pretty damn good on the defensive end as well, I thought he'd be more of a sieve, much like Russell. I'm very excited about these two guys and really hope the Lakers keep them long term.

I know this is way down the line, but I would much prefer Boogie & George is they can manage to sign 2 big time FA's. A line up of Cousins - Kuzma - Ingram - George - Ball seems better to me on paper than ? - Lebron - Ingram - George - Ball. Although, that ball movement with Lebron/Ball though...ugh. Okay sorry, getting way too ahead of myself. Lakers luck with FA's and all those guys might just resign with their respective teams. Oh well, at least we have Ball/Ingram/Kuz to look forward to for the time being, trust the process.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:27 am

Didn't watch the game but looks like they got killed on the defensive boards. I'm sure bogut was put in to help with that and the interior defense. I like Randle but he does have trouble with the taller guys.

Randles okay this year has been awesome and I loved how he managed to get it together after pouting for the first few games. Unfortunately I think all this is doing is building his value to be tossed into a trade to unload Deng. Either that or if by some miracle if someone takes Deng for nothing, randle could be lost if we chase two max FAs and don't get two.

Also, fuck Boston.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby dare on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:26 am

The whole front office is fixated on signing 2 max fa in the offseason when they should be focus on having a great core. I'm hoping to at least sign Paul George, imagine him in the role of KCP with a lot better offense.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby hova- on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:08 am

What I dont understand: how the heck was Lonzo Ball so hyped ?! I did not pay attention as I dont follow NCAA a lot but how the hell can a player with a broken jump shot like his be that hyped?

I mean it is obvious that he has to change his mechanics or he will never be an outside threat. He brings the ball to his left, up to his mouth and then lets it go. Easy to block, tough to get off quickly. FUCKING BROKEN.

It annoys me to see guys in the best league of the world whos jumpshot looks uglier than my own jumper. I dont care how good he is in whatever he is good at, he does not look like a basketball player out there.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:55 am

I don't know why everyone's so fixated on form. Kevin Martin was a fantastic scorer in the league and Shawn Marion was one of the best all around players for quite a few years. The media would joke about their shots once in a while but not to this level

I didn't watch college last year except the one UCLA tournament win and Ball was like pulling up from 25-30 ft and swishing so I mean he can hit shots
But I mean this IS another level and his shot is probably more likely to get blocked but I think the criticism is mostly because he is a high pick and all the publicity his family gets.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:14 am

What was more bewildering was Mark Jackson praising Lonzo Ball's defense during the Celtics game (though Jackson does have a tendency to say stupid things). He looked absolutely putrid at that end of the floor against Boston. Sure, Kyrie's a difficult player to guard, but he wasn't even getting out of first gear to blow by Ball. On a couple of plays, he practically just casually jogged by him. I guess it's no surprise; as previously noted, Ball couldn't even blow by Kendall Marshall in the Summer League, so his athleticism is a long way from being above average by NBA standards. He did get quite a few blocks, but he was getting beaten a lot, too.

They eventually switched Clarkson onto Irving, but the fact they have to hide Ball defensively doesn't bode well for his acumen at that end of the floor. With his lack of speed and lateral quickness compared to other players at his position, I doubt he's ever going to have the tools to match up with the elite point guards in the league. His instincts can probably get better and he might not get lost as much as he did against the Celtics, but right now, it seems like defense is a huge weakness for him.

Going back to his shooting, it's puzzling how analysts are dismissing his poor field goal percentage as irrelevant. Referring back to Mark Jackson again, he called it "the least of (Luke Walton's) worries". How is shooting 29.5% from the field, 23.1% from three-point range, and 53.8% from the free throw line, not a concern? We're eleven games into the season; that's not just a couple of bad outings at the beginning of the year skewering the numbers. He's absolutely stunk shooting the ball in nine of his games so far. His best efforts have been a game in which he shot 46% (6/13), and 44% (12/27). Apart from that, he's only cracked 30% in a game once. A point guard who shoots like Shaq from the foul line is also a liability. Rajon Rondo's been called out for his poor shooting for years, and rightfully so. I really don't see how Ball's shooting isn't at least of some concern.

He's also still up there in terms of the players who are getting blocked the most, and most of the players on that list who bigs who spend more time in the paint (matched up against other bigs, obviously), and players who take a lot more shots than he does. If nothing else, there's still a lot of room for improvement.

Sure, you could say that of most any rookie, and to that end you might say that people are being too hard on Lonzo Ball, but consider the hype. Consider the trash his father has talked. Consider the dismissal of any and all criticism of him as "hating". When you do that and come into the league with that much hype, you've set the bar very high with some lofty expectations. This is the NBA; you're earning the big bucks and you're positioned as the future star of the franchise to boot, so you're going to be under the microscope. If you don't live up the hype or simply have a horrible game, you're going to be criticised. You don't get to enjoy all the hype, and deflect any criticism when you fall short of it. It's early days, sure, but there are parts of Lonzo's game that look rather suspect.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:31 am

nice hard stance there, Andrew. i had caught the 2nd half on mute so i missed out on the expert analysis haha

early on the ricky rubio like shooting comparisons seem accurate. as you say, room for improvement

sorry Q- the guy's playing in the bright lights of LA. nevermind his family. the criticism should be expected.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:48 am

air gordon wrote:i had caught the 2nd half on mute so i missed out on the expert analysis haha


A wise policy, or perhaps a happy accident? Either way, you wouldn't have been left saying "Wait, what?" nearly as much as I was.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:48 am

Despite Rubio's shitty shooting he was decent on D, Lonzo not so much.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:49 pm

That's not to say he can't turn it around. Rondo's actually become a decent 3 point shooter after some work and Rubio's improved like you mentioned.

If you compare to rondo's first 12 games, Rondo shot 20/56 (35.7%) on with virtually no 3 pointers attempted. so he shot percentage that on over 50 "higher percentage" 2 pointers and layups etc. Imagine if he had attempted nearly 60 3 pointers as Lonzo... he'd be in the same territory if not worse.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:51 pm

Of course he can turn around. But in the meantime, it has to be a concern, and a fair point of criticism, just as it was with Rondo and Rubio.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:12 pm

What's ball's fg % around the rim?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:51 am

0.386, surpsingly better than Rubio's then and now.

EDIT: no, it's not, I was looking at % FGA and not FG%. Ball is worse than any of Rubio's seasons except for one with the same %
Last edited by shadowgrin on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Sauru on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:51 am

hova- wrote:What I dont understand: how the heck was Lonzo Ball so hyped ?! I did not pay attention as I dont follow NCAA a lot but how the hell can a player with a broken jump shot like his be that hyped?



because lavar ball is a motherfucking genius.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:05 am

How much did you get paid to type that?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:36 am

[Q] wrote:How much did you get paid to type that?


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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:11 am

shadowgrin wrote:0.386, surpsingly better than Rubio's then and now.

EDIT: no, it's not, I was looking at % FGA and not FG%. Ball is worse than any of Rubio's seasons except for one with the same %

ouch. have you seen the dunce cap lately? :crazy:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:55 pm

hova- wrote:What I dont understand: how the heck was Lonzo Ball so hyped ?! I did not pay attention as I dont follow NCAA a lot but how the hell can a player with a broken jump shot like his be that hyped?

Because despite the broken shooting mechanic he put up unseen level of scoring efficiency. IIRC he averaged about 14.5 ppg-ish with about .600TS% which is crazy good number for a PG. It was said it was due to extremely smart shot selection due to high basketball IQ. In short, he put up much better numbers as a college player than Jason Kidd that drew comparison to Ball.

His NBA transition seems like is gonna be a bumpy ride for the Lakers fans. He's right in the middle of media crosshair. There's gonna be entire ESPN series dedicated to how Lonzo is a bust in upcoming months unless he quits shooting bricks.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:30 am

He could put up all the good advanced stats he wanted in college, but even before the season started it was being questioned if he could be a productive scorer in the NBA. In fact, most people were talking about him not being able to get his shot off going to his right, or getting his shot off fast enough. Which is why he is shooting under 30% this season. The eye test showed that before he even stepped onto an NBA court.

Could he turn it around? Possibly. I think that he may never be a good one on one scorer, but picking his spots better and playing smarter, he could become a better and more efficient scorer.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:05 am

NovU wrote:Because despite the broken shooting mechanic he put up unseen level of scoring efficiency. IIRC he averaged about 14.5 ppg-ish with about .600TS% which is crazy good number for a PG. It was said it was due to extremely smart shot selection due to high basketball IQ. In short, he put up much better numbers as a college player than Jason Kidd that drew comparison to Ball.

His NBA transition seems like is gonna be a bumpy ride for the Lakers fans. He's right in the middle of media crosshair. There's gonna be entire ESPN series dedicated to how Lonzo is a bust in upcoming months unless he quits shooting bricks.

It was amazing he had that college efficiency. Maybe draftexpress still has his shooting data? Or maybe Schmitz brought with him to espn

At least he showed he does have nba range. The fg% around the rim is a bit alarming. I think both should improve as he gains more strength and adjusts to nba talent

Not trying to play excuse maker for him here (ahem) but the lineup he is with lacks shooting/doesn't afford him the spacing
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:16 am

Calling it now, Ball's gonna end up in his prime with the scoring skillset similar to an old man Jason Kidd, that of a spot-up shooter.

Kidd's bbr page even includes his no J nickname :lol:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:14 am

Oops, even better. Lonzo put up .673 TS% coupled with 131.3 ORtg which is out of this world number. (Michael Jordumb's best NBA number were mere .614 TS% 125 ORtg)

So scoring efficiency WAS supposed to be his strength not weakness. Being a rookie is a playable excuse for now but offense efficiency IS EXPECTED TO be bread and butter for his game in his career.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Sauru on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:53 am

NovU wrote: (Michael Jordumb's



seriously how old are you?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:44 pm

It comes back to college vs. the NBA. At least 80% of college players aren't going to make it to the NBA, and may not even have a future playing pro ball in other leagues either. There are also plenty of examples of players who excelled at the college level, distinguishing themselves with impressive performances and accolades, who were average players at best or even busts once they got to the NBA.

Simply put, the level of competition is higher, because all those players who didn't have a shot at making the NBA are gone. Instead of 15-20% of the players being (potentially) capable of earning a spot on an NBA roster, 100% of the players in the NBA are capable of it (obviously, since they've already done so). Even if it's on the deep bench, they've been good enough to go pro, and in the NBA at that. They've not only beaten out 80% of the competition that really never had a shot in the first place, but the 20% (give or take) that did.

That means that Ball is now facing opponents who are grown men, many of them bigger, faster, stronger, and more athletic overall than much of the competition he encountered at UCLA. The flaws, shortcomings, and idiosyncrasies of his game can be more easily exploited as a result. With more athletic competition, he can't blow by defenders as easily. Likewise, bigger and more athletic defenders mean that he can't shoot over them as easily with a jumpshot that has low and slow mechanics. Since he has difficulty getting his shot off going to his right, that's going to be in the scouting report, and those tougher defenders than the ones he faced in college are going to force him to go in that direction, where he's uncomfortable and less effective.

All stats need to be looked at in context. What level of competition is it? Obviously not all leagues are equal in that sense, and there's a significant gap as you rise through the amateur levels and into the pros, so success at one level isn't always going to translate to the next. You also have to consider a player's role. Someone who isn't the first option and not a focal point for the defense is probably going to be more efficient, or at least have a better opportunity to do so. Similarly, teammates and offensive systems are significant. A stacked team is going to make things easier for one another, as is an effective system. If you have a star who doesn't have much help, and/or a coach with a questionable playbook, it may be very tough for them to be efficient. Then you have systems that may win a lot of games and even championships, but not really allow players to have great individual numbers compared to others that are just as effective. Some allow both. In short, context matters.

Some of the biggest concerns with Ball's game at the pro level aren't apparent when you look at his stats, either in college or the NBA. When you look at the context though, and some of the specific challenges that he faces, there's an explanation why he's been able to excel at one level, and is currently struggling a bit (at least in some areas, and in terms of efficiency) at the next. After all, someone averaging a huge triple-double very efficiently at the high school level is likely doing so because they're a man among boys, at least physically. Someone doing outstanding things in college is excelling against a field that largely won't be going pro, at least not in the NBA. Those feats are harder to achieve at the NBA level. The players who can keep it going obviously become the stars and all-time greats of the game. Easier said than done, and the ceiling can be lower than expected. Not to be trite and cliche, but it's a whole other ballgame, as we've seen time and time again.

Lonzo probably isn't going to be able to ever match opponents in terms of athleticism, which just means he has to use the advantages he does have (he's reasonably tall for a point guard), and be more savvy. He needs to be able to get his shot off going in either direction. Maybe he needs to work on his mechanics so that he can shoot better under pressure. Getting a little stronger and developing a few reliable and elusive go to moves that work at the pro level can make up for his lack of explosive athleticism. If he can't do that, then he probably will end up being a bust...or at the very least, fall way short of the hype, and have trouble selling shoes for $500.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:16 pm

Despite the criticism, he messed around and got a triple double tonight. 50% shooting, 60% in 3s. Looked pretty good defensively with a couple of nice blocks as well
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:59 pm

Definitely one of his better outings so far, though it doesn't invalidate the criticism or concerns. Credit where it's due, though.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:33 pm

Andrew wrote:Lonzo probably isn't going to be able to ever match opponents in terms of athleticism, which just means he has to use the advantages he does have (he's reasonably tall for a point guard), and be more savvy. He needs to be able to get his shot off going in either direction. Maybe he needs to work on his mechanics so that he can shoot better under pressure. Getting a little stronger and developing a few reliable and elusive go to moves that work at the pro level can make up for his lack of explosive athleticism. If he can't do that, then he probably will end up being a bust...or at the very least, fall way short of the hype, and have trouble selling shoes for $500.


You realize he's a kid, right? You seem to be more irritated about his father than how he's been playing. He plays fine, he's got the potential and for the fact he just turned 20, he's doing just fine. He stunk it up so far shooting and hopefully he can correct that during the season but for the rest he's been fine. He's a willing passer, a good rebounder and does adequately on defense. The notion that he's terrible on defense is because of highlights against Wall and such I would think.

If you didn't buy in to the Big Baller Bullshit you wouldn't have this strong of a reaction. Avoiding all of the noise and just focusing on the kid shows he's very humble and just trying to find his way in a grown mans league. Even Rubio didn't get this shit on in less than 15 games in to the season.

Also try not to take this as me calling you a hater, I'm just saying you're having this strong of a reaction based on your dislike for his fathers loud mouth.

Also, can Lonzo play against Bledsoe for the rest of the season?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:41 pm

I do realise he's a kid. However, he is an NBA player, and one that came in with tremendous expectations, so he's going to be under the microscope the same as his peers. No less a person than Magic Johnson himself has touted him as the face and future of the franchise. Even putting aside his father's antics, there's a lot of hype, and the bar has been set very, very high. To that end, he doesn't get to accept all the glory and adulation when he meets those expectations, and make excuses and deflect all the criticism when he comes up short (or have others do so on his behalf). No one does. Rondo, Rubio, and even players like Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson have been taken to task for their shooting and/or lack of efficiency. It's all fair, especially when the expectations are high and their praises are being sung.

There are some flaws to Lonzo's game, flaws that frankly should be a concern and areas that he should work on. My take is that to turn those weaknesses into strengths, or at least not allow them to be exploited by his opponents, he should work on getting better at shooting and finishing going to his right, continue to sharpen his defensive skills in terms of movement and reading the play, and develop a couple of reliable moves that will be effective even though he's not the most explosive athlete by NBA standards. Watching him play early on, I would say those are the keys to his development, and ultimately how he'll turn things around in terms of being a more efficient scorer, if indeed he can achieve that. There's obviously plenty of time for him to do so.

The other point of my post was to address NovU's question of why he's not posting the same efficient stats as in college. The concise version of that is that he's facing tougher and more athletic competition, which makes it harder for him to do the things he's accustomed to doing at lower levels of the game, and so his shooting and efficiency is not as high as it was at UCLA. It shouldn't be a surprise. Aside from specific aspects of his game that are potentially problematic, a lot of players have to make that adjustment. Many don't, but the best players, the ones destined to be stars, manage to do so. He's not alone in that regard, and the reasons aren't mysterious or unprecedented.

I don't know that Lonzo can be that efficient in the NBA but I'm not saying he can't turn things around in that regard and be much more efficient and reliable shooting the ball, if he puts in the work. If nothing else, it probably wasn't fair to expect him to be that efficient at the NBA level, especially right away. While I still think it's fair to criticise things like an inability to get his shot off going to the right - that is definitely something to work on - I would actually give him a pass in terms of not being able to replicate extremely high efficiency numbers at the NBA level, especially in his first season. Let's not forget that LeBron shot 41.7% from the field in his rookie year, and didn't crack 50% until his seventh season. LeBron's efficiency came when his offensive game became more than just athleticism (and when he had better teammates around him).

Obviously a lot of eyes are on Ball, for better or worse, and the Lakers are investing a lot of hope in him. He's a talking point, and to that end, I wanted to give my take after watching him play a few games. Like I said, if he's going to get hype and praise when he succeeds, it's only fair to point out his shortcomings and areas where he could improve, as well. A dislike of his father's antics doesn't invalidate that criticism any more than being a Lakers fan invalidates a defense of him, but I've given my hot take, so I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:19 pm

I found Lonzo very a very likable character. Kid's humble, soft spoken, team oriented, hard working, and very media shy. It sucks to see people/media attacking such a personnel while actual psychopathic dickheads are glorified these days. When you turn on TV, all talks you hear about is Lonzo's broken shot, it is no surprise how Lakers fans are tired of hearing it. Perhaps I shouldn't have asked about it either.

Andrew wrote:The other point of my post was to address NovU's question of why he's not posting the same efficient stats as in college.

I do realize NBA's elevated competition is the cause and transition often does not work out even with work ethic and competitive spirit or all that kinds of bullshit. But was simply answering hova's why he's so overhyped question.

To answer the "overhyped" question again, I read somewhere that his college numbers were historically good like .673 TS% is unheard of. So it's hard to say he was overhyped. He was one of the best college players ever in terms of efficiency and all around game.

BTW it's good to see him playing well, broken the LBJ's record by 5 days for youngest player to ever post triple double. It's almost hard to believe 19pts/12reb/13ast/3stl/4blk numbers came from a rookie. Superstar potential is definitely there unless he goes MCW route, which I doubt. MCW was also older by couple years in his rookie season.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:50 am

Andrew wrote: If nothing else, it probably wasn't fair to expect him to be that efficient at the NBA level, especially right away. While I still think it's fair to criticise things like an inability to get his shot off going to the right - that is definitely something to work on - I would actually give him a pass in terms of not being able to replicate extremely high efficiency numbers at the NBA level, especially in his first season

was anyone really expecting him to match it? the numbers being so low now is the issue.

Let's not forget that LeBron shot 41.7% from the field in his rookie year, and didn't crack 50% until his seventh season. LeBron's efficiency came when his offensive game became more than just athleticism

I don’t think James is a good example and fg% in only one aspect of efficiency. James came into the league at a younger age and is more athletic to say the least. He could finish at the rim and went to the free throw line. Not to kick a dead horse but Ball at this point is dreadful at those aspects

All stats need to be looked at in context. What level of competition is it? Obviously not all leagues are equal in that sense, and there's a significant gap as you rise through the amateur levels and into the pros, so success at one level isn't always going to translate to the next. You also have to consider a player's role. Someone who isn't the first option and not a focal point for the defense is probably going to be more efficient, or at least have a better opportunity to do so. Similarly, teammates and offensive systems are significant. A stacked team is going to make things easier for one another, as is an effective system. If you have a star who doesn't have much help, and/or a coach with a questionable playbook, it may be very tough for them to be efficient. Then you have systems that may win a lot of games and even championships, but not really allow players to have great individual numbers compared to others that are just as effective. Some allow both. In short, context matters

What “context” does Lonzo Ball play in now? Does the current system help or hinder his game?

Jackal wrote: Even Rubio didn't get this shit on in less than 15 games in to the season.

And Rubio still stinks. Still under >40fg%g and >30% 3pt% smh

NovU wrote:I do realize NBA's elevated competition is the cause and transition often does not work out even with work ethic and competitive spirit or all that kinds of bullshit

interestingly enough on the other side of the country a rookie who came in with more criticisms in his game, Ben Simmons, is doing very well.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:09 am

air gordon wrote:What “context” does Lonzo Ball play in now? Does the current system help or hinder his game?


The NBA, as opposed to the NCAA.

I think Walton's a good coach. That potentially bodes very well for Ball's future.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:24 am

air gordon wrote:interestingly enough on the other side of the country a rookie who came in with more criticisms in his game, Ben Simmons, is doing very well.

Fair point although I think age and year of NBA training matter.



Another issues with Lonzo seems to be freethrow shooting. He might wanna bring % up to .700 at the very least. In college, he shot .673% and now he's shooting .500%.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:35 am

If Andre Drummond can drastically improve his free throw shooting, there's hope for everyone.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:00 am

NovU wrote:
air gordon wrote:interestingly enough on the other side of the country a rookie who came in with more criticisms in his game, Ben Simmons, is doing very well.

Fair point although I think age and year of NBA training matter.

good call. even with the extra time i thought it was Simmons who would struggle due to the concerns on what nba position he would play, no shot, attitude instead of Ball and his "winner" status, pure pg skills, 3pt shooting.

WOJ reporting Randle "unlikely" to have a future with LA. thoughts, Lakers fans?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:26 am

I never understood the criticism of Simmons, although I didn't watch his games in college. He seemed like a good all around player that would translate to the NBA.

Randle news was not surprising, as I earlier stated that he's going to be packaged in a deal to dump Deng or will be lost in the pursuit of two max FAs due to his large cap hold. Very sad considering his turnaround and improvement this year. Maybe someone will take Nance instead in a deal for deng
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:34 am

good ol' coach nick did post a vid on Ben Simmons. i think its rather amazing he can put up these numbers with a poor outside shot & and confusion on what hand to finish with.


[Q] wrote:Randle news was not surprising, as I earlier stated that he's going to be packaged in a deal to dump Deng or will be lost in the pursuit of two max FAs due to his large cap hold. Very sad considering his turnaround and improvement this year. Maybe someone will take Nance instead in a deal for deng

still hold the opinion of the Mozgov & Deng signings weren't that bad? ;)

i'd have to agree skinny Randle has looked good in his bench role. he would be worth the cap hold on the salary cap IMO
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:16 am

To bring up that discussion from another thread what Simmons is doing right now shows that even Magic can thrive today in the league.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:14 am

The signings themselves were not bad at the time. Especially with the way the Lakers were getting burned by free agents not wanting to go there. Had they been shorter contracts they would've been fine but good god I don't know why you'd want to lock those guys up for so long. Bitch Kupchak could've seen the writing was on the wall and used the scorched earth method to screw the Lakers on his way out
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:18 am

darn it, shadow. get ready for "it was the best of times. it was the worst of times."

you see that rolling sky hookish shot with Simmons off hand?
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