Chicago Bulls Thread

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 am

Would you be in favour of bottoming out and trading away Butler along with everyone else, assuming of course they could actually get some unprotected picks or something reasonably good for him?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:26 am

Andrew wrote:Would you be in favour of bottoming out and trading away Butler along with everyone else, assuming of course they could actually get some unprotected picks or something reasonably good for him?

Yes
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:07 am

air gordon wrote:
Andrew wrote:Would you be in favour of bottoming out and trading away Butler along with everyone else, assuming of course they could actually get some unprotected picks or something reasonably good for him?

Yes

Yes +1

Assuming they fire GarPax and Hoiberg as well of course.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:43 am

I'm admittedly hesitant to give up on Butler and I'm doubtful they'd actually pull off a good deal, but if it gets rid of GarPax...well, it might just be worth it. Starting over would be painful, but in some ways, perhaps it'd be less painful than these bandaid fixes that offer a glimmer of hope, but ultimately don't pan out.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby NovU on Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:34 pm

I dunno. I wouldn't trade Butler. In my world, he is close to unmovable if the purpose is solely to tank like 76ers did. Because it beats the purpose. Entire lottery rebuilding process is to get someone like Butler and build upon it. Giving up on superstar in prime prematurely usually dont pan out too well in hindsight. Keep him and explore ways to tank with him on roster. The Heat did it with young Wade and got Beasley. In fact, you can tank smartly even with superstar on roster and rebuild. For instance, you can lose via simply tweaking rotations. Teams been doing it for decades in subtle manner. Isnt Butler's talent way too hard to come by to give up?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:54 pm

My preference at this point would be to keep him, and only trade him if it's going to bring them some great talent in return (more likely eventually, through unprotected lottery picks). But I do see the merit in what AG and Valor are suggesting. If they did go for a full rebuild, then there's a good chance their hand would be forced with him anyway, since it's unlikely he wants to be a part of that as he's entering his prime.

If nothing else, Rondo needs to go, and to really rebuild properly, GarPax need to go as well. The former seems quite likely, but the latter, unfortunately, does not. Credit where it's due: they've made some good picks, a couple of trades have been alright, and as far as their recent history is concerned, I think it was worth rolling the dice on Wade (Rondo, clearly not so much). They even hired Thibs in the first place, so you've got to give them that. However, even if they have shown some competence in their moves, they've also had plenty of bad ones, and contributed to the dysfunction with their power plays and pettiness. Yet, they're still in charge.

That's the nagging thought I have. Even if they did blow everything up and bottom out, could they do anything worthwhile after that? Would their reign of terror come to an end, and someone else get a chance? How many more bad years and mistakes would have to be endured before they were sent packing?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby MozTheBoz on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:41 am

Andrew wrote:That's the nagging thought I have. Even if they did blow everything up and bottom out, could they do anything worthwhile after that? Would their reign of terror come to an end, and someone else get a chance? How many more bad years and mistakes would have to be endured before they were sent packing?

If you'll ask Jerry Krause probably if their body can't take anymore the rigors and stress of the job that they're having health issues because of it and thus the only option is for them to resign...

Forman already hinted that he doesn't want to go on full rebuild (or perhaps Reinsdorf just don't want to) so perhaps we'll just see them keep on reloading the roster for the sake of having a playoff bound team. Although they said back then that they'll not fire Thibs... There's a pretty tempting standing offer from the Celtics for Butler (Crowder, Smart + 1st rounds from Nets for 2017 and 2018) so let's see what will happen on the trade deadline.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:51 am

Take that deal and run

MozTheBoz wrote:Forman already hinted that he doesn't want to go on full rebuild (or perhaps Reinsdorf just don't want to) so perhaps we'll just see them keep on reloading the roster for the sake of having a playoff bound team. Although they said back then that they'll not fire Thibs... There's a pretty tempting standing offer from the Celtics for Butler (Crowder, Smart + 1st rounds from Nets for 2017 and 2018) so let's see what will happen on the trade deadline.

Firman doesn't want to rebuild because it would be admitting failure in the roster he built and the coach he hired.... which should get him fired

NovU wrote:I dunno. I wouldn't trade Butler. In my world, he is close to unmovable if the purpose is solely to tank like 76ers did. Because it beats the purpose. Entire lottery rebuilding process is to get someone like Butler and build upon it. Giving up on superstar in prime prematurely usually dont pan out too well in hindsight. Keep him and explore ways to tank with him on roster. The Heat did it with young Wade and got Beasley. In fact, you can tank smartly even with superstar on roster and rebuild. For instance, you can lose via simply tweaking rotations. Teams been doing it for decades in subtle manner. Isnt Butler's talent way too hard to come by to give up?

Fair point. Finding another player equal to butlers talent in the lottery is no guarantee. However I have no faith in the current management to build around butler and the new cba makes it difficult to sign away the would be FA's from their current team. Roll the dice on the Brooklyn picks

They already wasted one year now. This season is irrelevant. Should have blown it up after Rose was traded
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:55 am

Snagging a superstar in free agency is easy. All you have to do is come back from 3-1 down to beat them, and they'll jump ship at the first chance.

Of course, that does require making the Playoffs first. Plan B, GarPax. Or whatever letter we're up to now.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:23 am

So apparently we've sunk as low as the Dolan-run Knicks, cause GarPax are doing the same shit - spying on the players. Randy Brown you bloody snake. Fire everybody I say, EVERYBODY. All the coaches, all the assistants, the entire front office, I don't even want the same cleaners there, this is absolutely disgraceful.

and if that wasn't enough...there's more. Apparently GarPax wanted Thibs to play Tony Snell over Jimmy Butler because Butler didn't agree to the cheap extension offer before restricted FA so his value will drop

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:28 am

Randy Brown-Noser, amirite?

Just so incredibly low and despicable.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:49 am

Andrew wrote:Randy Brown-Noser, amirite?

Just so incredibly low and despicable.

Nicely done.

I know Reinsdorf never fires his Managers, whether it's with the White Sox or the Bulls, but he has got to bloody step in this time and clean house. If he doesn't I don't think we'll be anywhere near #7 for the next decade.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:23 pm

I can't imagine it's an appealing scenario for free agents.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:53 pm

Andrew wrote:I can't imagine it's an appealing scenario for free agents.

No, definitely not. I mean if I was a FA I wouldn't go after hearing this story, and I love the Bulls.

Here's the story in written form for those who might not want/be able to listen to the audio
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:18 pm

Interesting to see people disbelieving the story in the comments on that article. I mean, I guess we can't verify it's accuracy 100%, but given all the other stories that have emerged over the years - and the fact they date back to previous front office regimes in the championship years - it's more than plausible to say the least. I'm certainly inclined to believe it.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:47 pm

Andrew wrote:Interesting to see people disbelieving the story in the comments on that article. I mean, I guess we can't verify it's accuracy 100%, but given all the other stories that have emerged over the years - and the fact they date back to previous front office regimes in the championship years - it's more than plausible to say the least. I'm certainly inclined to believe it.

I'm pretty much laughing at how ignorant people are when they begin to defend GarPax, whether it's on realgm or comment sections of facebook posts. :lol:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:53 pm

In all fairness, some of them might not be actively defending GarPax as much as questioning whether or not this particular story is accurate, or exaggerated. That said, I'm not sure why any Bulls fans would be inclined to disbelieve it, at this point in time.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:26 pm

Andrew wrote:In all fairness, some of them might not be actively defending GarPax as much as questioning whether or not this particular story is accurate, or exaggerated. That said, I'm not sure why any Bulls fans would be inclined to disbelieve it, at this point in time.

That's fair, but yeah I dunno why they would question it. It's not that far fetched when you consider how Paxson once got into a fight with the coach he hired....or fired Ron Adams purely to mess with Thibodeau.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby mp3 on Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:10 pm

I think what I mean by my practice comment is I wonder what level of involvement he has with practice, some veterans who have being told they don't need to practice today don't turn up at all while others are there at training and being vocal.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:43 am

Ok fair enough, MP3

More oil on the fire! Yes!

Butler shook it off when asked about it. He could have left no doubt by denying it flat out but I don't see him do any favors for management at this point haha

What's interesting to me is that something like this was leaked to the media. Isn't this resillio guy an ESPN guy/national guy?

I believe there is some truth to the story. I wouldn't put it past those clowns to try something like that. Butler was up there as amongst leaders in minutes played so Thibs put that snell garbage talk to rest quick


Hey Valor-
Reinsdorf finally committed to a full rebuild with the Sox. Kahn looks like he is finally in charge. There's still hope!
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:47 am

air gordon wrote:Hey Valor-
Reinsdorf finally committed to a full rebuild with the Sox. Kahn looks like he is finally in charge. There's still hope!

Well, it only took the Cubs winning the title to give him some incentive; but what bothers me is that Ventura had to step down himself after yet another embarrassing season - Reinsdorf just doesn't fire his managers. :facepalm2:

But yes, there does seem to be a tiny light at the end of the tunnel. We got some good prospects back selling Sale and Eaton so yeah, things will look up in a few more seasons.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:06 am

U could say Pax and Kenny have similar roles. Difference being Kenny truly earning himself a lifetime job for winning the world series

Def been a tough year being a Sox fan. Glad we won the dance before the Wrigley trash did
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:42 am

The Thunder game had some bright moments, at least. They had it going in the second half, so that was fun to watch at least.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:20 pm

Not that relevant to the NBA but this article about the Super Bowl bound Falcons really describes everything that is right with a successful franchise and highlights everything that is wrong with the Bulls.

Friendship, comradery, teamwork, cohesiveness, unselfishness, positive culture. Pretty much everything we've been missing since GarPax builds the "team" off hype to sell to the fans instead of building a team to win.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:07 am

Haha no more reminders. Isn't hard to find articles like that haha

Surprised the bulls got one out of the this tough 6 game road trip
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby NovU on Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:35 pm

PHI fans seem to dislike Jahlil.

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Yep. I would like some kind of deal to go thru though Jahlil might be the worst defensive big in the league. Just for the potential.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:42 am

Falls in line with management's philosophy of getting players whose styles that fit the 80's era instead the current era

Thoughts on getting Jrue holiday? If not by the trade deadline, how about off-season signing??
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:22 am

I'd take him over Rondo, sure. His health/durability might be a concern though, as he hasn't played more than 70 games since his All-Star season of 2013, and I think we've all seen enough of Bulls point guards being injured. Still, he has a good skillset, and he'd probably be a better gamble than Rondo. If nothing else, he's a stronger three-point shooter, so right out of the gate he would seem to be a better fit, and better fill a need.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:42 pm

Bulls will not fire GarPax

There goes another season of embarrassment and futility, hurrah!
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:18 pm

I think we need to coin a new term here. Changing the criteria or goal that's trying to be achieved is often referred to as moving the goalposts, the metaphor drawing comparisons to literally moving goalposts during a football match. It pops up as fallacy in discussions, and is a popular way to dismiss accomplishments ("He needs to win a championship...well, he needs to repeat...he needs to win without that teammate who's carrying him...he needs to win X amount of MVP awards..." and so on).

That's kind of what's happening with GarPax, but in the opposite direction. Instead of raising the bar with new goals that are positive things we would like to see happen, the bar is constantly being lowered in order to set new standards for futility that would be sufficient enough to fire them (and thus, avoid doing so). In this case, it's more "moving the sideline" (to make it more difficult to step out of bounds), or perhaps "raising the foul limit" (so they can keep on racking up infractions indefinitely). Personally, I like "hitting the snooze button"; the metaphor there suggests that although it's past time to wake up and get out of bed, ownership keeps hitting the snooze button so that they can sleep on the situation a little longer.

See, this is what's it's come to: discussing language and idioms, because it's a far less depressing topic to mull over than how the Bulls are going to get any better while those two numpties are still running the show.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:01 am

Haha well said

How oblivious to reality is forman? KC reports forman believes his plan of developing the young guys while remaining competitive is going well as planned
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:00 am

It definitely gives some insight into where the bar is set, what counts as being competitive. That's enough of a stretch as it is, but suggesting the young guys are developing nicely on top of that? Yikes.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:02 am

So would you be open to trading for carmelo Anthony?!? Knowing that forman can't draft and reinsdorf doesn't care what fans think

So assuming it's Butler and wade stay and most likely draft picks involved.. Would you do the deal??
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby mp3 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:49 am

I would (y)

I've got nothing against Melo I think he's an amazing player but he wants and wanted the knicks to try and win now when it was clear we needed to rebuild. I just wish we could undo the Derrick Rose trade and then we wouldn't of wasted money on Noah.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:37 am

Yeah, I'd be open to trying out a trio of Butler, Wade, and Melo.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:29 am

phpBB [video]


Ugh. Just...ugh.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:55 pm

mp3 wrote:I would (y)

I've got nothing against Melo I think he's an amazing player but he wants and wanted the knicks to try and win now when it was clear we needed to rebuild. I just wish we could undo the Derrick Rose trade and then we wouldn't of wasted money on Noah.

the noah situation is sad. i wanted him to do well in nyk. his salary is on the books for 3 more years. yeesh

i would laugh so hard if the bulls got 'melo. another get young and athletic move :lol:

if the knicks would want the spare parts and draft picks, i wouldn't blame the bulls for trying
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:27 pm

air gordon wrote:i would laugh so hard if the bulls got 'melo. another get young and athletic move :lol:

I wouldn't be surprised, it'll be another "should've been done 3-5 years ago not now" move from GarPax, as we've already seen with the Wade signing.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Melo's a few years younger than Wade at least, though he too is obviously only going to go downhill from here. As long as they don't give up Butler, I wouldn't mind the experiment. It's not like the current group is going to go places.

Meanwhile, good win over the Raptors.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:53 am

getting melo would be hitting the speed button once on a treadmill that's stuck on slow.

it would put them in a hole even further long term while the short term gain isn't worth it.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:24 am

Can Niko even garner an early 2nd round pick??

I think this guy is a goner
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:27 am

He probably could, but GarPax will go one step further and trade him for a non-existent third round pick.

Gotta admit I'm disappointed when it comes to Niko. He's shown flashes, but before he came to the Bulls, he was being hyped as the next coming of Pau Gasol. My fault for getting my hopes up I suppose, but I kept hearing he was supposed to be something special.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:40 am

Yep. BUST. I tried defending him based on the fabulous March a few years back. Now he can't even make 3pters

Ring the shame bell.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:21 am

So much for pace and space Hoiball making him a star. In fairness to Hoiberg though, it seems his game just isn't translating to the NBA level. Well, either way, time to move on.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:22 am

Report: Lakers and Bulls engaged in Jimmy Butler trade talks

According to a report from Mike Adamle of NBCChicago.com, the Bulls and Lakers have discussed a deal that would send Jimmy Butler and Michael Carter-Williams to Los Angeles in exchange for Louis Williams, Jordan Clarkson and Julius Randle.

While Adamle is the only one reporting this rumor at this time, he has since doubled down on the fact that trade talks are ongoing as he is reporting that Chicago has attempted to re-engage Los Angeles in trade talks now that Magic Johnson is running the show for the Purple and Gold.


I'm not sure I can really get excited about that.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:44 am

So the Bulls get westbrook's dance partner Cameron Payne and spare parts for taj and Dougie buckets

Don't know much this dancing kid but I suppose he's the latest guy to be named the starting pg

Happy for taj to go to a playoff team. Another draft bust in McDermott. Thanks GarPax

Definitely would have been better off with Gary Harris and nurkic then McDermott
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:45 am

What the hell are the Bulls doing.....
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby benji on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:58 am

"The centerpiece going to Chicago is 2nd-year PG Cameron Payne, who has a PER of 6.1 this season. Of the 353 players with at least 300 minutes this season, Payne ranks tied for 349th with Chicago's Paul Zipser."
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:16 am

Don't be salty you didn't get Gibson ;)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:26 am

air gordon wrote:Don't be salty you didn't get Gibson ;)


I would have loved to see Taj on the Celtics, I love his game.
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