The Knicks Thread....

by **Jeffx** on Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:49 pm

Surprise, surprise......Knick players don't like the triangle offense;

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2824060

YouTube · by **mp3** on Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:55 pm

We haven't really being running it much in the preseason, I like the offensive tempo we have shown so far and I like high pick and rolls that we are finally using.

I really don't know why we brought back Lou and Sasha tho.

by **Jackal** on Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:53 pm

Phil Jackson wrote:The triangle of course is a different matter. How do you teach a system that requires so many fundamental skills to players that really haven't been taught some of that basic stuff (footwork, passing, and all those rudiment type of skills that are learned) that have been changed over the years. It's a different game so I solicited Jeff because Jeff came from a system, Utah had a nice system, and yet he wanted to accelerate the game and play at a pace that present ballplayers like to play at. And yet find a way to try and incorporate it. It's got to be done in a way that doesn't slow the game down but tries to accentuate the things they are trying to do.

Source.

New Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek said that team president Phil Jackson has been "hands off" and "helpful" during the preseason as Hornacek installs a new offense in New York. Hornacek's new approach employs less of the triangle offense, which Jackson used to win 11 NBA titles as a head coach.

"Phil's been great. He's not trying to take over and make us do anything. He's given us the leeway," Hornacek said after practice Sunday. "There are some things that we do that aren't the triangle stuff [such as] our early [offense]. Quite honestly, we thought he would say, 'Let's not do that.' Or, 'Let's not do that option.' But he hasn't said that at all."

Source.

YouTube · by **mp3** on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:13 pm

So it looks like Noah has picked up his second injury of the preseason (ankle) and isn't practicing again, may miss sat game vs Boston.

That's two new signings (Rose & Noah) who can't get on court and that's also two key starters. I have a feeling that both players are going to miss way more time than I optimistically thought.

by **Jeffx** on Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:05 am

mp3 wrote:So it looks like Noah has picked up his second injury of the preseason (ankle) and isn't practicing again, may miss sat game vs Boston.

That's two new signings (Rose & Noah) who can't get on court and that's also two key starters. I have a feeling that both players are going to miss way more time than I optimistically thought.

Phil invested in two cats who I guarantee will miss portions of the season. I'd laugh if I wasn't a Knicks fan.

I always felt these signings were desperation moves by Phil. He's gone after the season, and he doesn't want his Knick tenure defined by no playoff appearances.

by **air gordon** on Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:51 am

too early for buyer's remorse haha. as long as it's not a shoulder injury, i would not be overly concerned with Noah. it always seemed like he picked up some kind of nagging injury.

as long as Rose isn't facing jail time i think he sucks it up for most of the season. dude want to get paid in the offseason

YouTube · by **mp3** on Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:01 am

Regarding Noah, he hasn't played in nba in months (16?) and can't seem to make it through a training session without getting hurt, I know he's always had nagging injuries but theses nagging injures are stopping him from even getting on court now let alone play through them.

As for Rose, I haven't really followed the court case but what if he's found guilty of rape? There is sure to be prison a head of him.

by **air gordon** on Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:16 am

At least Noah is expected to play tonite says Rotoworld

The latest blurb I read on rose said the judge expects to wrap up the case tuesday. The civil case that is. The criminal charges seems to have lost its wheels so no jail time for now

YouTube · by **mp3** on Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:05 am

Yeah I read on a knicks board that Noah said he was playing regardless but at what level? If he wasn't a 70 million dollar signing I would be to bothered by this. I also think we gave up RoLo in the Rose trade knowing that the knicks and Noah had mutual interest.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:38 am

As always, it has to be a comforting thought that if nothing else, Isiah Thomas isn't pulling the strings these days. One can only imagine who he'd sign to a ridiculous contract with the new, enormous salary cap.

by **air gordon** on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:29 am

mp3 wrote:Yeah I read on a knicks board that Noah said he was playing regardless but at what level? If he wasn't a 70 million dollar signing I would be to bothered by this. I also think we gave up RoLo in the Rose trade knowing that the knicks and Noah had mutual interest.

i agree. the Noah signing was finalized early.

i was always thought Noah is a rhythm type of player. he needs to get out there. Hernangomez looking good

by **Jeffx** on Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:17 am

With Rose away, Brandon Jennings is already a favorite with the MSG crowd. Sh*t, us Knick fans were killing Donnie Walsh for not drafting him years ago (I believe Walsh took Jordan Hill).

by **Jeffx** on Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:55 pm

With a new coach and so many new faces, I'm not surprised at last night's outcome....Knicks looked out of sync.

YouTube · by **mp3** on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:10 pm

Plus playing the champs in there house on ring night.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:13 pm

They didn't look too bad in the first half, with a couple of spirited runs. Second half, it kind of fell apart, and was less competitive.

by **Jeffx** on Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:00 am

Porzingis should be more of a focus on offense.

by **air gordon** on Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:49 am

so we got a bet on, knicks fans?

maybe go record for the month starting november, head 2 head, and overall record. loser puts a sig or avatar of the winners choice?

YouTube · by **mp3** on Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:22 pm

Yeah iam up for that.

by **Jeffx** on Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:06 am

Derrick Rose is already bitchin' about the triangle, and he's right......when will Phil wake the f--- up????????? I'm fed up with his stubborness with this stupid triangle. That's why Pat Riley sh*ts on him when it comes to coaching. Pat adjusted his system to the talent he had, but not Phil. He's going to fit square pegs into round holes just to prove to everyone how smart he is.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2846261

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:43 am

There's only so many times Jax can fall back on "I won 11 titles with it", especially when the last one was six years ago, and given the players he had on the roster. Put it aside, or find a way to update it so that it can still be effective. If it's not playing to the strengths and style of the players, then surely it can't be considered the best option.

by **Jeffx** on Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:00 pm

It drives me nuts, Andrew, because the Knicks can get EASY pick-&-pop looks for Porzingis. That should be our primary or secondary option.

by **Valor** on Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:56 am

Jeffx wrote:Derrick Rose is already bitchin' about the triangle, and he's right......when will Phil wake the f--- up????????? I'm fed up with his stubborness with this stupid triangle. That's why Pat Riley sh*ts on him when it comes to coaching. Pat adjusted his system to the talent he had, but not Phil. He's going to fit square pegs into round holes just to prove to everyone how smart he is.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2846261

Andrew wrote:There's only so many times Jax can fall back on "I won 11 titles with it", especially when the last one was six years ago, and given the players he had on the roster. Put it aside, or find a way to update it so that it can still be effective. If it's not playing to the strengths and style of the players, then surely it can't be considered the best option.

I dunno about this guys, I think it's more to do with the players coming in with doubts in their minds about it not being a good fit for them and thus doesn't buy in completely. The triangle is perfectly suitable for plays into pick and roll (Plenty of Kobe Gasol pick and rolls in those 2008-2011 Laker runs) and point guards aren't stuck as catch and shoot options 'cause roles interchange so easily in the system.

In fact, if you have a good pick and roll ball handler it only makes it that much easier because there's so many actions that allows for a pick and roll drive off a dribble pitch hand-off, with the defense already having to shift around quite a bit thanks to the initial triangle set up action, so the ball handler will be initiating the pnr going full speed right at the off balanced defense. They can also set up the pnr action on the weakside, which the Lakers did quite a bit.

phpBB [video]

Imagine this with Porzingis at Gasol's spot

phpBB [video]

This with Melo as the pick man will draw the defense away so much the other side of the floor will be completely empty

It really isn't complicated, just takes all 5 guys on the floor to buy in and play smart basketball.

by **air gordon** on Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:35 am

then surely it can't be considered the best option.

don't call me shirley haha

as the cliche goes- hard to teach an old dog new tricks. DRose throughout his career has been used to having the ball in his hands. i agree the triangle can help... in doses. Rose has to learn to move without the ball.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:58 am

Even as I was typing it, I was wondering if I'd be setting someone up for that reference. :lol:

Good points, Valor.

by **Jeffx** on Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:44 pm

The bottom line is, the front office should not be dictating what offense the coach should run. That's ridiculous......where do you see that in the NBA or any other other league? Phil, either get out of the way and let Hornacek run things his way, or coach the f-ing team yourself. This is what, Jackon's fourth year, and he's still trying to coach from the front office. Enough!

by **Valor** on Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:16 am

Jeffx wrote:The bottom line is, the front office should not be dictating what offense the coach should run. That's ridiculous......where do you see that in the NBA or any other other league?

Miami. Pat Riley pretty much controls everything.

by **PeacemanNOT** on Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:00 pm

That was a questionable game... great to get a win on the board I guess.

by **Jeffx** on Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:23 pm

They looked much better last night. I hope Noah can stay healthy, because he's just what we need. Porzingis needs to call for the ball more - he can be a monster. Carmelo, quit with the jab-stepping and get the kid the f-ing ball. Like Clyde said, you can't be stagnant.

Great seeing the old Knicks at halftime.....of course only Clyde can get away wearing those outrageous suits.

by **Jeffx** on Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:27 pm

Quote from Courtney Lee:

"We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."

That's a serious indictment of Phil Jackson. And what the hell is Jackson doing instructing players during practice? He's not the coach.

Typical Knicks circus. Another year of being a joke. This franchise is a f-n waste.

by **Valor** on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:13 pm

Jeffx wrote:Quote from Courtney Lee:

"We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."

That's a serious indictment of Phil Jackson. And what the hell is Jackson doing instructing players during practice? He's not the coach.

Typical Knicks circus. Another year of being a joke. This franchise is a f-n waste.

Watching the Knicks-Bulls game right now. They aren't even running triangle. Maybe a shade of it here and there with post entry and cut concepts but it's just a bloody mess mostly and they go back to pick and roll anyways. (And when they do run some of it and move the ball around properly they got wide open jumpshots) Maybe that's the problem? Players not knowing what they are doing because they don't understand it? No offense but if this is the case why can't Jackson come down from his office and giving tips? He IS the most knowledgeable man alive outside of Tex Winter when we are talking about the triangle offense...

Honestly, if he was so adamant about running a pure triangle, he wouldn't have hired Hornacek. Give the guy some slack mate, you are sounding like Stephen A Smith here. Just sayin

by **air gordon** on Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:46 pm

My sig awaits , MP3

Fine game by the visitors last nite

by **Jeffx** on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:40 am

Valor wrote:
Jeffx wrote:Quote from Courtney Lee:

"We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."

That's a serious indictment of Phil Jackson. And what the hell is Jackson doing instructing players during practice? He's not the coach.

Typical Knicks circus. Another year of being a joke. This franchise is a f-n waste.

Watching the Knicks-Bulls game right now. They aren't even running triangle. Maybe a shade of it here and there with post entry and cut concepts but it's just a bloody mess mostly and they go back to pick and roll anyways. (And when they do run some of it and move the ball around properly they got wide open jumpshots) Maybe that's the problem? Players not knowing what they are doing because they don't understand it? No offense but if this is the case why can't Jackson come down from his office and giving tips? He IS the most knowledgeable man alive outside of Tex Winter when we are talking about the triangle offense...

Honestly, if he was so adamant about running a pure triangle, he wouldn't have hired Hornacek. Give the guy some slack mate, you are sounding like Stephen A Smith here. Just sayin

Phil is not the coach, he's the president/GM. He should do his job and let Jeff coach his way. But Big Chief Triangle wants to have his cake and eat it too, and show us all how smart he is. Trying to fit square pegs into round holes isn't smart IMO.

And hardcore fans like myself have every right to be ticked. I was 12 the last time this franchise won anything, and they're been an NBA joke for the past 15 years.

YouTube · by **mp3** on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:56 am

air gordon wrote:My sig awaits , MP3

Fine game by the visitors last nite

I thought we were doing it for the season record?

by **Valor** on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:06 am

Jeffx wrote:
Valor wrote:
Jeffx wrote:Quote from Courtney Lee:

"We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."

That's a serious indictment of Phil Jackson. And what the hell is Jackson doing instructing players during practice? He's not the coach.

Typical Knicks circus. Another year of being a joke. This franchise is a f-n waste.

Watching the Knicks-Bulls game right now. They aren't even running triangle. Maybe a shade of it here and there with post entry and cut concepts but it's just a bloody mess mostly and they go back to pick and roll anyways. (And when they do run some of it and move the ball around properly they got wide open jumpshots) Maybe that's the problem? Players not knowing what they are doing because they don't understand it? No offense but if this is the case why can't Jackson come down from his office and giving tips? He IS the most knowledgeable man alive outside of Tex Winter when we are talking about the triangle offense...

Honestly, if he was so adamant about running a pure triangle, he wouldn't have hired Hornacek. Give the guy some slack mate, you are sounding like Stephen A Smith here. Just sayin

Phil is not the coach, he's the president/GM. He should do his job and let Jeff coach his way. But Big Chief Triangle wants to have his cake and eat it too, and show us all how smart he is. Trying to fit square pegs into round holes isn't smart IMO.

And hardcore fans like myself have every right to be ticked. I was 12 the last time this franchise won anything, and they're been an NBA joke for the past 15 years.

Pat Riley does the same stuff in Miami with his hand picked protege, Jeff knew what he signed on for, and if he didn't respect that and bought into the philosophy I don't know why he signed. As for square pegs into round holes....thats the thing, the triangle works for everybody, as in, any combination of personnel, at any level of play. The only prerequisite skillset one needs to perfectly master the offense is the ability to read defenses and make good passes, pretty sure almost everyone not named JR Smith or Nick Young can do that. Again, PNR can be a heavy part of the offense, there's no set plays, the system adjusts itself according to the strengths of the players....

Yes you've got the right to complain, not questioning that at all, but I don't think all the blame can be on Phil. You might recall a lot of calls for him to be fired after he picked Porzingis? The man knows what he's doing.

by **air gordon** on Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:42 am

mp3 wrote:I thought we were doing it for the season record?

i did say head to head, monthly record, and season record. whatever floats your boat

YouTube · by **mp3** on Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:26 am

Let's go with season head to head (since we are leading 1-0 lol)

I can't figure out which knicks team will turn up each night, credit to the Jazz and Rudy Gobert last night they deserved to win that game!

by **Jeffx** on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:28 pm

I'm with Frank Isola on this. Hornacek should say screw it, and do things his way. The fact that they're spending more time practicing against the triangle offense instead of pick & roll is ridiculous.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/2.122 ... -1.2863341

YouTube · by **mp3** on Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:22 am

Yeah we have carried on this nonsense for 3 years now, give it up already!

Knicks are clearly better moving away from it and from the defence standpoint why are we running against the triangle when no other team is running it against us?

We are last in defence so I think Lee's comments are spot on, practice against what other teams are running.

by **Jeffx** on Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:56 am

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1799 ... le-offense

Hey Phil, if you're unhappy with Hornacek not running your outdated offense, then get off your f-ing a** and coach the f-ing team yourself!!!! Of course you won't do that because this team isn't championship-caliber.

In case you haven't noticed Phil, offense isn't this team's biggest problem. Maybe the defense would improve if they practiced against pick & rolls instead of the f-ing triangle.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:14 am

With all due respect to Phil and the triangle, it does seem like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants the team coached a certain way, but also wants to maintain the distance of an executive so it doesn't seem like he's directly responsible for what happens out on the court, and he also doesn't have to put in the leg work of a head coach. "Hey, I got you some good players, and handed you an offense that won 11 championships. Not my fault!"

by **Jeffx** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:56 am

Andrew wrote:With all due respect to Phil and the triangle, it does seem like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants the team coached a certain way, but also wants to maintain the distance of an executive so it doesn't seem like he's directly responsible for what happens out on the court, and he also doesn't have to put in the leg work of a head coach. "Hey, I got you some good players, and handed you an offense that won 11 championships. Not my fault!"

More Knick follies, Andrew;

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2864647

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:06 am

Soon to be a two-time interim coach of the Knicks, maybe?

by **Jeffx** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:53 am

Andrew wrote:Soon to be a two-time interim coach of the Knicks, maybe?

How much you want to bet Hornacek regrets signing up with this chicken outfit? He's already dead-man-walking.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:58 am

The irony is that Jackson's meddling and power plays are not completely unlike the way Jerry Krause treated him in Chicago all those years ago. He knows what it's like to be mistreated in some way by the front office.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:59 pm

As much as I like Noah, this is one of the things that long frustrated me about his game.

He's never been a stellar scorer in the NBA, but he's virtually a complete liability in that regard these days. It's a shame he's never been able to develop a reliable move or two so that he can pack a bit more of a scoring punch.

YouTube · by **mp3** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:07 pm

I've thought this too Andrew, he reminds me of Tyson Chandler on offence. Totally useless.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:12 pm

I'd argue that Chandler's touch around the rim is better though, and he's still athletic enough to finish easy looks and get garbage buckets. Noah is pretty good at putting the ball on the floor and he's a fine passer, but when it comes to shooting - even layups and little hooks from a few feet out - he looks like he's never played basketball in his life.

YouTube · by **mp3** on Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:03 am

He can pass and he can run the break off a rebound but the knicks (Jackson) want us to slow things down and set up the good old slow half court offence once used by Jedi Knights called the Triangle...

The knicks have looked so much better as a running team, there isn't a single player on the roster who can't get up the court.

by **air gordon** on Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:57 am

One of my favorite Noah games

phpBB [video]

Noah sure made a bunch of contested shots against the bulls

by **Valor** on Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:01 pm

mp3 wrote:He can pass and he can run the break off a rebound but the knicks (Jackson) want us to slow things down and set up the good old slow half court offence once used by Jedi Knights called the Triangle...

Noah's passing ability and on court mobility is exactly what makes him a perfect center for the triangle....See:

phpBB [video]

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