The Knicks Thread....

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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:02 pm

In theory yeah but I think he may still recovering from the injuries from what I've seen so far from him or this could be as good as it gets?

It's frustrating when he's got a clear lane to the basket but he stands there looking to make a pass.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:18 pm

mp3 wrote:In theory yeah but I think he may still recovering from the injuries from what I've seen so far from him or this could be as good as it gets?

It's frustrating when he's got a clear lane to the basket but he stands there looking to make a pass.

Yeah he's probably still not 100%, hasn't been since his DPOY year. If everybody else on the Knicks can make better cuts and have Noah facilitate from the post they might actually be pretty darn good on offense.

Defensively.....a lot of work is needed.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:05 pm

100% agree, he's picking up silly fouls on defence.

Your right about the cuts tho, the whole team looks confused and not knowing where they need to be resulting in forced shots at the end of the shotclock.

Like I've said before I've really liked how this team has looked when they get a rebound and push the ball up which we have a team of players who can run there heart out so why not push the pace?
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:09 am

mp3 wrote:Your right about the cuts tho, the whole team looks confused and not knowing where they need to be resulting in forced shots at the end of the shotclock.

Well, that's why I've been saying it's not the triangle's problem, it's the fact that they don't even understand the (actually really simple) system in the first place. It can make things a shit load easier for them.
mp3 wrote:Like I've said before I've really liked how this team has looked when they get a rebound and push the ball up which we have a team of players who can run there heart out so why not push the pace?

If pushing the pace is what Melo accepts, then he would've done it a couple of years ago instead of running D'Antoni out of town for Woodson so he can play half court iso again. :wink:
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:30 pm

I honestly give Zero Fucks to what Melo wants theses days.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:50 am

mp3 wrote:I honestly give Zero Fucks to what Melo wants theses days.


As much as he tries to be, Carmelo is not my definition of a real team leader. He's not Batman, he's Robin. His two best years he played with Billups & Kidd. That's what Carmelo needs, strong leadership at point guard. Rose isn't a Billups or Kidd-type point guard.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:55 am

mp3 wrote:I honestly give Zero Fucks to what Melo wants theses days.

:lol: That about sums it up.

Jeffx wrote:As much as he tries to be, Carmelo is not my definition of a real team leader. He's not Batman, he's Robin. His two best years he played with Billups & Kidd. That's what Carmelo needs, strong leadership at point guard. Rose isn't a Billups or Kidd-type point guard.

I honestly don't understand the problem with Melo when he's in the NBA. He's had tremendous success in college and he's arguably the best player for team USA during international competitions. Weird that it hasn't translated to the NBA.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:09 pm

The biggest problem I see apart from the defence is that we are over passing, no one seems to want to shoot at times and this only gets worst when the bench comes in too.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:21 pm

Valor wrote:I honestly don't understand the problem with Melo when he's in the NBA. He's had tremendous success in college and he's arguably the best player for team USA during international competitions. Weird that it hasn't translated to the NBA.


The level of competition is higher in the NBA, and his teammates are much better in international competition. He's never really been on a team that was built for great success, and the best teams he's been on have not only had some kind of deficiency, they've also coincided with another team being at the height of its powers. If not for the Kobe-Gasol Lakers in 2009, he might have a ring by now.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:34 pm

Andrew wrote:
Valor wrote:I honestly don't understand the problem with Melo when he's in the NBA. He's had tremendous success in college and he's arguably the best player for team USA during international competitions. Weird that it hasn't translated to the NBA.


The level of competition is higher in the NBA, and his teammates are much better in international competition. He's never really been on a team that was built for great success, and the best teams he's been on have not only had some kind of deficiency, they've also coincided with another team being at the height of its powers. If not for the Kobe-Gasol Lakers in 2009, he might have a ring by now.

Fair enough, though you'd think he would be overshadowed by his USA teammates but instead he's nearly always been their best player, at least in the last few years in the post Kobe-Wade squads. Good point about 09, unlucky for him.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:34 am

Phil Jackson running his mouth as usual;

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2873330
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:23 am

He probably had a point in some of his criticisms, but perhaps he should concern himself more with Knicks matters.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:05 pm

Jeffx wrote:Phil Jackson running his mouth as usual;

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2873330

Andrew wrote:He probably had a point in some of his criticisms, but perhaps he should concern himself more with Knicks matters.


That's a tiny bit of the interview that he did in which he talked about the Knicks and their issues...typical media grabbing a quote and spinning it into something they can bash the guy with.

The full/real interview is here

JM: There have been reports you are frustrated that (Knicks coach) Jeff Hornacek isn't employing the triangle offense enough. Is that the case?

PJ: No. But when they run it I want them to run it the right way. If you are going to do it, use your skills and run it the right way. I'm not frustrated at all. Derrick Rose missed three weeks of training camp (because of a civil trial). It's totally understandable where we are as a ballclub. We have guards that do a lot of stuff off the dribble. I want them to understand they can do things off the pass. It has to be a combination.


Also talked about KP's place in the team, Derrick Rose, relationship with Melo, thoughts on Hornacek, and other basketball theories in terms of the Knicks.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:35 pm

Sure, there's more to the interview and valid points therein, but that doesn't mean that some of his remarks aren't going to raise eyebrows, and be criticised.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:55 pm

Andrew wrote:Sure, there's more to the interview and valid points therein, but that doesn't mean that some of his remarks aren't going to raise eyebrows, and be criticised.

It was just one line though, they (select media) have obviously ran with it and Lebron went up and got offended over a word that isn't even close to being "racially offensive" as some have put it. The word "posse" means "a group of young people who socialize together", which is....fairly accurate? I don't understand what's so controversial about that, it's just that nobody dares to say anything negative about Lebron and the well known fact that he gets whatever he wants in Cleveland.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:19 pm

Yeah, that's another thing as well. In analysing the situation, you almost have to go into a vaudeville routine, not unlike the "Frogurt" scene ("That's good!/"That's bad") in The Simpsons all those years ago.

Jackson has a point about LeBron being spoiled and entitled, and it's fair enough that he's called out on it. At the same time, it's kind of gossipy to say what he did. LeBron and his management have taken the use of the word "posse" in the worst way possible and assumed intent that very likely wasn't there, though one can also see how they might be sensitive to such sentiments and take what was said the wrong way. Jackson spoke candidly, which he was invited to do and is entitled to do, but he ventured onto certain tangents where it's a bit "mind your own business". He gave an evaluation of Melo that isn't entirely inaccurate, though at the same time throws him under the bus, which is a bit uncool.

With all the Knicks have endured over the years, there's a lot of impatience and frustration there. Fans have had to put up with a lot of incompetence, lack of professionalism, and bizarre attitudes from ownership and management. It probably rubs people the wrong way to hear Jackson exhibit disinterest in keeping up with certain league affairs ("Now that I'm president, I have to read all this stuff about the league. Usually it's 'delete, delete, delete") and doing things like skipping out on the Scouting Combine, only to offer up opinions on matters that don't really concern the Knicks. He may be right in those observations, and the mere fact he's talking about those things instead isn't proof that he doesn't care about the Knicks, in and of itself. But it isn't necessarily a good look, especially when he appears to be deflecting some of the tough questions about his decisions by making fun of other people and talking about problems elsewhere in the league. The column Jeffx linked to doesn't just focus on what he said about LeBron, after all.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:49 pm

We pretty much agree on the Lebron situation, more or less so I'll address the latter part...

Andrew wrote:The column Jeffx linked to doesn't just focus on what he said about LeBron, after all.

No, it didn't, but it was an opinion on how Phil should stfu and mind his own business, implying throughout the whole article that he doesn't do his job of managing the Knicks...which isn't true because the very interview he referenced all the "controversy" from had a bunch of questions and answers in relation to the Knicks in pure basketball sense. The author is making it as though all Phil is doing is putting his nose into other team's business when in reality he was mostly giving an analysis of his own team.

All he did was answer a few questions that the reporter asked about other teams/players very candidly, I don't think we should be punishing him for that, especially when there was no insulting element there, save those ones that were either 1.) fabricated by the media looking to make headlines; or 2.) offered up by Lebron and his camp since they are overly sensitive and doesn't like being called out on something that really is an open secret.

In fact, that column painted him as taking shots (or as he phrased it, took a dig) at other teams when in reality he praised them..."they've evolved so much. I like the way his teams play. He's using a lot of triangle stuff, a lot of pinch post stuff. It works....I have great respect for his ability as a coach and how he keeps his players playing at a very high level." (On Pop); "Pat has a terrific sense of what he wants to do....I always thought Pat had this really nice vibe with his guys." (On Riley)

That's just my take, anyways.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:08 pm

It's taking a negative view of some his remarks, for sure. I can see where he's coming from on some of them, and I do think frustration with Jackson (and the Knicks in general) is a factor here.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Andrew wrote:It's taking a negative view of some his remarks, for sure. I can see where he's coming from on some of them, and I do think frustration with Jackson (and the Knicks in general) is a factor here.

Agreed. The whole "Zen" and "Mystique" thing is wearing people out, that's for sure. People generally don't like to be treated as idiots. :lol:
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:17 am

Andrew wrote:With all the Knicks have endured over the years, there's a lot of impatience and frustration there. Fans have had to put up with a lot of incompetence, lack of professionalism, and bizarre attitudes from ownership and management.



Thank you...quite frankly, we're tired of Phil trying to prove to everyone how smart he is. We've had 15 years of nonsense with this franchise us real fans want results. Aside from Porzingis, Jackson has been unimpressive as president. He calls Conley's contract insane.....how about Noah's? or the no-trade clause he gave Anthony?
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:02 pm

Jeffx wrote:
Andrew wrote:With all the Knicks have endured over the years, there's a lot of impatience and frustration there. Fans have had to put up with a lot of incompetence, lack of professionalism, and bizarre attitudes from ownership and management.

Thank you...quite frankly, we're tired of Phil trying to prove to everyone how smart he is. We've had 15 years of nonsense with this franchise us real fans want results. Aside from Porzingis, Jackson has been unimpressive as president. He calls Conley's contract insane.....how about Noah's? or the no-trade clause he gave Anthony?

He tends to do that and yes it's very annoying...but can you put the 15 years of nonsense on him though? From an outsiders point of view shouldn't you be on his side since he's the one trying to un-fuck the decade-plus of congregated rubbish left over by Isiah Thomas and James Dolan, especially since the latter is still there.....I mean you'd rather have Phil acting like a smartass but actually doing stuff (don't just sweep aside Porzingis now, almost the entire fanbase was shitting on him about it until it turns out he was right and KP's a beast) over Dolan's antics (Recording your employees, for instance).

Noah's contract's hardly the worst deal this off-season, not even close to Conley's. Enes Kanter is being paid that much to sit on the bench, as is Allen Crabbe; and let's face it, it's hard not to give Melo whatever he wanted if you didn't want to lose him, a no trade clause is hardly the worst thing that could've happened (Look at Cleveland, they gave almost $140m to Tristan Thompson and JR Smith just to please Lebron)
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:18 am

Valor wrote:
Jeffx wrote:
Andrew wrote:With all the Knicks have endured over the years, there's a lot of impatience and frustration there. Fans have had to put up with a lot of incompetence, lack of professionalism, and bizarre attitudes from ownership and management.

Thank you...quite frankly, we're tired of Phil trying to prove to everyone how smart he is. We've had 15 years of nonsense with this franchise us real fans want results. Aside from Porzingis, Jackson has been unimpressive as president. He calls Conley's contract insane.....how about Noah's? or the no-trade clause he gave Anthony?

He tends to do that and yes it's very annoying...but can you put the 15 years of nonsense on him though? From an outsiders point of view shouldn't you be on his side since he's the one trying to un-fuck the decade-plus of congregated rubbish left over by Isiah Thomas and James Dolan, especially since the latter is still there.....I mean you'd rather have Phil acting like a smartass but actually doing stuff (don't just sweep aside Porzingis now, almost the entire fanbase was shitting on him about it until it turns out he was right and KP's a beast) over Dolan's antics (Recording your employees, for instance).

Noah's contract's hardly the worst deal this off-season, not even close to Conley's. Enes Kanter is being paid that much to sit on the bench, as is Allen Crabbe; and let's face it, it's hard not to give Melo whatever he wanted if you didn't want to lose him, a no trade clause is hardly the worst thing that could've happened (Look at Cleveland, they gave almost $140m to Tristan Thompson and JR Smith just to please Lebron)



You're right, I'd rather have Phil running things than Dolan and his yes-men Allan Houston & Steve Mills. I'm just speaking out of frustration....I haven't seen a title since 1973, and this franchise is light-years away from championship material, or even what they were during the 90s.

We want what San Antonio Spurs and New England Patriots fans have.....a well run franchise with a smart owner who hires the right people and stays out of the way. No drama.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:04 am

Jeffx wrote:You're right, I'd rather have Phil running things than Dolan and his yes-men Allan Houston & Steve Mills. I'm just speaking out of frustration....I haven't seen a title since 1973, and this franchise is light-years away from championship material, or even what they were during the 90s.

We want what San Antonio Spurs and New England Patriots fans have.....a well run franchise with a smart owner who hires the right people and stays out of the way. No drama.

Quite understandable, I feel the same way about my Bulls as we endure year after year of GarPax's blunders and disgusting grab for power at the expense of the team...at least our owner doesn't do stupid things (he just doesn't do anything, including firing the clowns). Plus, I am a Chicago Bears fan so yep.....definitely feel your pain mate
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:01 am

There was a team meeting before the Atlanta game, which Phil attended. Here's what Carmelo had to say;

"He actually just listened this time....which is good".


POW!!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2881195
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:36 pm

Can the Knicks get more creative with these end-of-game situations? How about putting the ball in Rose's hands, let him drive, draw the defense, then kick it out to Carmelo for an open 'J'? Something DIFFERENT!
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:24 am

Iso option 1
Iso option 2
Iso option 3
Iso option 4...
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby cavs4872 on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:29 am

As you guys said they need a point guard like Andre Miller, Jason Kidd or Chauncey Billups, and I wouldn't even mind bringing Rose off the bench then. It can't even be too talented of a players though, since they are just a body bringing the ball up the court to give it to Carmelo 70% of the time and Kristaps 30.

Maybe Ramon Sessions...? I think I'm gonna go over to 2K and rebuild this team; heck, I haven't done a dynasty story in ages.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:56 am

cavs4872 wrote:As you guys said they need a point guard like Andre Miller, Jason Kidd or Chauncey Billups, and I wouldn't even mind bringing Rose off the bench then. It can't even be too talented of a players though, since they are just a body bringing the ball up the court to give it to Carmelo 70% of the time and Kristaps 30.

Maybe Ramon Sessions...? I think I'm gonna go over to 2K and rebuild this team; heck, I haven't done a dynasty story in ages.



I don't care how well Rose plays, the Knicks should not bring him back. They need a young, talented PG to pair with Porzingis. I keep hearing there'll be some good PGs in the 2017 draft, so we'll see.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:20 pm

There is talk of Jrue Holiday.

I think the biggest problem isn't the pg but the offence, we stand around far much and considering we brought in Lee and Noah for defence no one seems to be playing much of it.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:36 pm

mp3 wrote:There is talk of Jrue Holiday.

I think the biggest problem isn't the pg but the offence, we stand around far much and considering we brought in Lee and Noah for defence no one seems to be playing much of it.


Coach Hornacek after last night's disaster - "I have to find someone to play some defense".

(facepalm)

These clowns gave up what, 67 points to the f-n Orlando Magic in the 1st half?!?!
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:36 am

Yeah like I've said we brought in Lee and Noah for that, at least Lee can hit a 3 here and there but if Noah isn't playing D and rebounding then he's a bust because as much as he can pass the ball I don't want him holding the ball at the free throw line holding the ball looking to make a highlight pass.

Lance Thomas has being awful coming back for injury over the summer, he can't shot or defend now.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:38 am

mp3 wrote:Yeah like I've said we brought in Lee and Noah for that, at least Lee can hit a 3 here and there but if Noah isn't playing D and rebounding then he's a bust because as much as he can pass the ball I don't want him holding the ball at the free throw line holding the ball looking to make a highlight pass.

Lance Thomas has being awful coming back for injury over the summer, he can't shot or defend now.



But how about every player on this team, including our so-called 'superstar', man-up and handle their OWN business on defense. Like Clyde says, "EFFORT!"

Hornacek's reaction to Carmelo calling that ISO was priceless....he was like "what's the use?"
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:19 pm

Agreed.

We have a selfish team plain and simple everyone is just out for there own on offence
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby cavs4872 on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:37 pm

mp3 wrote:I think the biggest problem isn't the pg but the offence, we stand around far much and considering we brought in Lee and Noah for defence no one seems to be playing much of it.

Totally; I was watching the Christmas day game and it just blew my mind how 90% of the offense was missed contested shots off Melo iso's; he is stifling Kristaps' development.

It's just a bad fit; you can't change the guy, so it just makes sense to trade him for a bunch of role players who can compliment Kristaps (not unlike what Denver received when they dealt him).

Edit: Well, Carmelo shuts up all the haters with ten dimes tonight.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:57 pm

The worst part about the Giants season being over is now I have to turn my attention to those bums masquerading as basketball players. Knicks have officially hit rock bottom. Phil "I'm the Smartest Man in the Room" Jackson is as inept as Isiah Thomas when it comes to putting a roster together. Fifteen years of dysfunction with no end in sight.


I'd get of Rose ASAP.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2942009
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:37 am

Even if there is a family emergency or something of that matter, Rose should've sent word explaining his absence. It makes the situation a little more understandable, but he still should've sent word through his representatives as soon as he could.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:10 am

Blow it up, Andrew.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:59 pm

I actually enjoy watching the Knicks just to see the creative ways this team loses games.

Last night in Philly was a classic.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:12 am

I don't know how in one breath Rose can say for a split second he thought about quitting basketball all together but in the next breath talk about wanting a max deal this summer.

Him disappearing and talking like that makes him sound like Larry Sanders.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby air gordon on Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:48 am

I feel bad for the guy. I think he just doesn't have it all right upstairs.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:07 am

Perfect fit for the knicks then.

Honesty though I think he's being great on court but he's not a fit with Melo and he's a FA while Anthony isn't going anywhere so is it time to field trade deadline deals for him?
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Valor on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:40 am

I think Rose really got messed up by that first meniscus tear (after he came back from ACL), he's a kid who grew up pretty well protected by his family so it's probably the first time he's had one setback after another. Sports psychologist would do him some good tbh, not sure if the Knicks have been providing him with one. Physically he's fine, mentally he's messed up right now.

mp3, he's actually been bringing what the Knicks have been missing for years and nobody else on the roster can provide - effective penetration. Obv let him go if hes asking for the max but if he can realize reality and agree to a reasonable price I say keep him and have Hornacek (or whoever will be the coach, who knows) take a hard stance in coaching Melo....it's time to stop letting him off the hook. Tremendously talented scorer, big baby who can't get it together to win. That last possession vs Philly was some shitty effort on D from him, sure one might argue a push off but come on, the help d did more than him in contesting the shot.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:45 am

Believe me I'd pick Rose over Melo 9 time out of 10 but with his no trade clause and Rose being an UFA he could walk for nothing this summer but on the other hand his mindset right now doesn't want me to throw a max deal his way either.

I tell you... being a knicks fan...
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:54 pm

mp3 wrote:Believe me I'd pick Rose over Melo 9 time out of 10 but with his no trade clause and Rose being an UFA he could walk for nothing this summer but on the other hand his mindset right now doesn't want me to throw a max deal his way either.

I tell you... being a knicks fan...



I will LOL if the Knicks max out Rose (that's the only way he'd come back), because it would be a typical Knick move going back to Spencer Heywood & Marvin Webster.

The front office never learns.....band-aid solutions never work.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:02 am

Jerome James. That one was brutal.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby air gordon on Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:35 am

If only the Knicks could play the Bulls every game

It's like game 7 for Noah and Rose each time out
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:58 pm

In the words of the immortal Micheal Ray Richardson, the "ship be sinkin'!"

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.2947126
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 am

Last bit sums it up quite well.

Phil may be using the media to get his message out, but Carmelo has all the power. He’s got the no-trade clause.


Not sure how Jackson is going to resolve that.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:09 pm

Another heart-breaking loss, this time to Atlanta on MLK day. Rose was running his mouth about the need to step it up defensively - he got torched by Schroeder.

The so-called "Super Team" is 18-24.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:59 pm

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