Questionable Assists

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Questionable Assists

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:48 am

Hi all,

We've heard stories of John Stockton having his assists padded for home games, so this is nothing new. However, these two plays are clearly not assists.

Do you think that intentional padding still occurs on select players? Is it incompetent stat keepers? Do you think that if it's discovered after the game that upon review certain stats that were given shouldn't have, that they should be taken away?

Amazing game by Ball, so I'm not taking anything away from him. Just want to discuss the stat aspect of it.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2017/11/21/lonzo-ball-credited-questionable-assists-triple-double-video/
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby mp3 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:57 am

Yeah I remember hearing about the Jazz table crew would give Stockton the "hockey assist" if they he deserved it, that was back in late 80's tho and not every game was nationally televised not sure you could get away with now.
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby shadowgrin on Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:11 am

This reminds me of a true Grizzlies legend who padded Abdur-Rahim's assists and blocks and Bryant Reeves' rebounds when the Grizz played at home. Also responsible for Nick van Exel's career high assists in a single game.

http://deadspin.com/5336974/an-assist-f ... -the-books
https://deadspin.com/5345287/the-confes ... corekeeper


The best was Mutombo not tolerating such chicanery.

I also got bitched out by an Atlanta management guy because he felt I hadn't hooked Mutombo up enough w/ blocks in a particular first half. (I hadn't - I didn't like him because he was partly responsible for beating the Sonics and because I thought he was a bit of a punk so I made sure he didn't get a singly block that I wasn't sure he'd gotten - which was one in that half.) I told the management guy that the box score reflected the game and if Mutombo wanted more blocks, he needed to earn them. About 5 minutes later, Deke walked out for pregame warmups, asked the official scorer (the person who enters fouls and points in the archaic official scorebook) who does stats, she kindly pointed him to me, and he proceeded to glare at me for about a minute (which is, imo, a really long time for a gigantic man to glare at you). I want to say he blocked three 2nd-half shots and after each one, he made a point of, um, ensuring that I'd gotten them.


You may sex Mutombo but you don't fuck with him especially his block numbers.
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:21 am

Gross.

Im sure a lot of this stuff happens depending on the player.

So, do you think that upon review after the game that stats should be taken away or given depending on what actually happened? Because this impacts history (Like Balls second triple double).

In my opinion, now that we have the technology, and with so many eyes on each game via social media, that if it is discovered that it should be taken away. Because in reality, those stats never should have been given in the first place.
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby shadowgrin on Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:43 am

The shots were made still within the unnofficial but commonly thought of 2 dribble or 3 second limit.

If by official definition it could still be argued that it's still an assist since the "player scoring the goal responds by demonstrating an immediate reaction toward the basket."
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby Andrew on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am

There is a precedent for altering the box scores after a game. Bob Sura, for example:

Wikipedia wrote:With the Hawks, he gained attention by almost posting three straight triple-double games - the third was subsequently taken away from him by the league when he purposely missed a layup to get his 10th rebound. The NBA defines a field goal as attempting to put the basketball in the basket for a field goal. Since he had no intention to put the basketball in the basket, he could not be credited with a rebound.


Before Hakeem Olajuwon actually posted a quadruple-double, he had a near miss that Rockets officials felt should've achieved the mark:

Wikipedia wrote:Olajuwon was credited with 9 assists in the original box score. However, after Rockets officials reviewed the game tape and discovered what they believe was an uncredited assist in the first quarter, they revised the box score, crediting Olajuwon with 10 assists and the third quadruple-double in NBA history. NBA's director of operations, Rod Thorn, requested to review the tape. After reviewing the tape, the league disallowed Olajuwon's quadruple-double and announced that his original line—with 9 assists—is official.


With that in mind, if anything seems particularly questionable, I'd say the league does have grounds to investigate and take away stats that have been credited erroneously (or shall we say, "generously").

In Lonzo's case, I'd say on those two plays, he did get the John Stockton treatment.
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby [Q] on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:25 am

I see on Yahoo fantasy sports app they have adjustments after the fact from time to time
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:05 pm

[Q] wrote:I see on Yahoo fantasy sports app they have adjustments after the fact from time to time


Good to hear.

I don't think he should have been given credit for those two assists, but it is what it is. He had a great game, so I'm not that bothered by it.
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Re: Questionable Assists

Postby koberulz on Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:08 am

The problem is the rule. The FIBA Statisticians' manual is far more detailed about definitions:
An assist is a pass that leads directly to a team-mate scoring.
 A pass to a player inside the paint, who scores from inside the
paint is always considered an assist
 A pass to a player outside the paint, who scores without dribbling is
always an assist
 A pass to a player outside the paint, who scores after one or more
dribbles, is considered an assist if the shooter is not guarded by a
defender directly in front of him / facing him. The same principle
applies in fast-break situations, with a pass to a player at half-court
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