Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Like real basketball, as well as basketball video games? Talk about the NBA, NCAA, and other professional and amateur basketball leagues here.

Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Andrew on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:41 pm

NBA Reportedly Passes Anti-Tanking Draft Reform, Player Resting Rules

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reported Thursday that the NBA Board of Governors passed new rules for draft lottery reform and player resting.

Wojnarowski noted that the new lottery system meant to curb tanking will be in place for the 2019 NBA draft.

As part of the reformed lottery, the team with the NBA's worst record will no longer have sole possession of the best odds to get the No. 1 overall pick, as seen in this chart tweeted by Wojnarowski:


Image

Not a bad idea. I have no problem with the lottery and Draft being a way for teams to start over and get back to being competitive again, but anything that prevents an ugly race to the bottom is fine in my book. Of course, it's worth noting that since the lottery was implemented, only four teams with the worst record and four teams with the second worst record have actually won it. That's only eight times out of 33 that teams racing each other for the worst record have had it pay off, and only four times that the team that "succeeded" in being the worst got the top pick out of it. I think the lottery has already been a decent safeguard against tanking yielding the number one pick, but this will perhaps be more incentive to keep trying a little longer into the season, since the odds don't get much better between the bottom five anymore.

Probably more controversial is the issue of rest:

Wojnarowski reported on Sept. 18 that NBA Commissioner Adam Silver was pushing for a rule that would result in teams being fined if they sat healthy star players in nationally televised games or multiple healthy starters in regular-season games.

Silver will have discretionary power in fining teams for resting healthy players, and teams will be encouraged to do so for home games if they feel they have to. The rested players will also be required to be present on the bench, per Wojnarowski. Jeff Zillgitt of USA Today reported Silver could fine teams up to $100,000.

In an effort to curb the need for teams to rest healthy players, the league reduced the number of back-to-back games from 16.3 to 14.4 per team in 2017-18.


I like both measures. By all means reduce the number of back-to-back games, but the amount of big name players being rested when healthy and in nationally televised games featuring match-ups with Playoff implications has gotten a bit silly. If nothing else, I like the stipulation that they have to show up and sit on the bench; I'd also reiterate Jeff Van Gundy's suggestion that maybe they should have to participate in an autograph session or something in lieu of playing the game. They're getting paid a lot of money, so the least they could do is fulfil some sort of obligations to their team and the league, if they insist on taking a night off when they could actually play.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
No context necessary.
Administrator
 
Posts: 101434
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby mp3 on Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:42 am

As someone who paid good money to see the 06 Heat team play VS the Magic (also saw Clipper, Celtics and Bobcats) only to find that the Heat rested Shaq and Wade leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, we paid $80 per ticket for the other 3 games then $120 each for the Heat game so Iam all in favor or fining teams for resting healthy players.

The way I see it if you want to rest a player give him practice off and if he plays 30-40mpg reduce his minutes in those games to 15-20 so the fans get to see that they paid for.
User avatar
mp3
 
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:45 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby JaoSming on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:45 am

It sucks, but away teams owe nothing to the home team's fans. Even if the away team's fanbase is shared like in Florida. It's not like there is a Lakers merch stand in Boston when they visit.
Right Click Loop
phpBB [video]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8ozxhwwmz4LJzpGAj22T5qa0ZVFBJ3yw

User avatar
JaoSming
2KTV Producer
NBA 2K Developer
 
Posts: 29831
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: 2K

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby mp3 on Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:45 am

It does suck but winning teams with star players are a big ticket seller when there team visits town and in some cases if it's east visiting West or the other way round it could be the only time that city gets to see Curry, LeBron, Westbrook etc.

The away team might not owe the home fans jack shit but the league makes millions and the fans pay a premium to watch in person so I think the league has an obligation to make sure the star players if healthy are out there playing
User avatar
mp3
 
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:45 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Sauru on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:37 am

too many times i have paid money only to see all the stars rest. i am all for anything that prevent that. i am torn though because i feel teams should have the right to sit players if they feel it helps their chances but i also feel like you are stealing money from the fans when you do it.
User avatar
Sauru
 
Posts: 7533
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:01 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Andrew on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:44 am

If nothing else, I like the stipulation that they need to at least attend games they're sitting out, and fulfil some other obligations in lieu of playing, if they can at all justify sitting while healthy.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
No context necessary.
Administrator
 
Posts: 101434
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dommy73 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:12 am

Still, the issue is about stars and superstars. Even $100K is just a part of their salary for that one game.
i7-6800K, 16GB @ 2400MHz CL14, 980 Ti Classy
Fedora 26 for everything meaningful, Windows 10 for games and video entertainment

ImageImageImage
User avatar
Dommy73
Making 2K16 newbs quit like Curry in the Finals
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:00 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Andrew on Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:40 am

If I understand correctly, it's the teams that are getting fined, in which case it really is a drop in the bucket.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
No context necessary.
Administrator
 
Posts: 101434
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dommy73 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Sure, but I could imagine team saying "well, if you really want to rest and not come to the game be prepared it will go out of your pocket".

Something like

- League fines Team for Player resting and not coming to the game.
- Team fines Player for the same amount, same reason "per Team policy".
i7-6800K, 16GB @ 2400MHz CL14, 980 Ti Classy
Fedora 26 for everything meaningful, Windows 10 for games and video entertainment

ImageImageImage
User avatar
Dommy73
Making 2K16 newbs quit like Curry in the Finals
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:00 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby mp3 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:11 am

I think it's more than likely that a coach will start a player and play him to the first whistle then sit him for the rest of the game and then the league will take a few more years to find a solution to that too.
User avatar
mp3
 
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:45 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby koberulz on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:46 am

Dommy73 wrote:Sure, but I could imagine team saying "well, if you really want to rest and not come to the game be prepared it will go out of your pocket".

Something like

- League fines Team for Player resting and not coming to the game.
- Team fines Player for the same amount, same reason "per Team policy".
There is zero chance that these players are choosing to rest of their own accord.
User avatar
koberulz
Everything I say is false.
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dommy73 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:20 pm

koberulz wrote:
Dommy73 wrote:Sure, but I could imagine team saying "well, if you really want to rest and not come to the game be prepared it will go out of your pocket".

Something like

- League fines Team for Player resting and not coming to the game.
- Team fines Player for the same amount, same reason "per Team policy".
There is zero chance that these players are choosing to rest of their own accord.


You think LeBron didn't want to rest before playoffs and minimize the risk of injuries?
i7-6800K, 16GB @ 2400MHz CL14, 980 Ti Classy
Fedora 26 for everything meaningful, Windows 10 for games and video entertainment

ImageImageImage
User avatar
Dommy73
Making 2K16 newbs quit like Curry in the Finals
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:00 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby mp3 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:28 pm

I think it mainly started with LeBron back in 04 resting for the playoffs.
User avatar
mp3
 
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:45 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby benji on Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:52 am

Well, I mean the 1971 Bucks started resting their players as the season came down the wire, and Red used to do the same with the Celtics ones, especially the older ones. They'd generally play still but the bench would play more minutes than usual. The '71 Bucks case is such well known because they were on pace to get 70 wins but stopped playing the Big O, etc. as much and lost five of their last six games. Like Popp they also saw it as a good time to get some burn for players they might need at some point. Most of those Celtics reserves notably became later starters and such.

And those teams were playing each other so many times it was potentially effecting playoff seeding. But since they didn't give a shit since they played so often it wasn't a big deal.

Bill Russell was player and coach and he intentionally sat players other than himself (when he probably should have been doing that too, but I think Havilcek or Sam Jones once said he basically would forget about subbing for himself while in the game more than doing it intentionally, whereas Red could tell him to sit) because the Celtics had long stopped caring about their regular season records knowing they just had to beat the three teams for the title.

I don't understand the lottery reform. Tanking wasn't a problem.

People point to the Sixers but they literally lost what would have been the rookie seasons of half their picks (Noel, Simmons, Embiid) and nobody can point to any legit long-term talent they dumped or ignored, especially with MCW struggling to stay in the league. They got FA's NOW because they look like they're going to be good. The Lakers fell apart and the Nets killed themselves off. The Kings are run by a fool and they've botched nearly every draft on top of that. Orlando and the Knicks haven't exactly been paragons of front office brilliance. And Phoenix did two separate rebuilds and now are so young they couldn't field a team of otherwise college seniors from their roster. Detroit and Charlotte the only other Eastern multi-time repeaters to the lottery since 2012 have both made the playoffs since. And the last team, Minnesota, was a Kings situation of mismanagement and awful drafting until recently.

In the entire history of the previous lottery percentages only Dwight Howard was drafted by a team with the full 25% chance a the number one pick*. Until the last three years when it's happened three times in a row. And both teams who used the picks will probably be in or close to the playoffs this year. (As a reminder, Nets won the lottery last year but as we all know they traded every pick of the decade to Boston, and then Boston flipped with the Sixers.)

But in the four years before that, the Cavaliers came away with the number one pick THREE TIMES, once out of the 8th slot (Irving) and once out of the 9th slot (Wiggins). The latter being tied for the highest jump in history when the Bulls got Rose. (The highest ever was under the old system that looks more like the flattened reformed one, when the Magic with only one ball, got the first pick the year after getting Shaq.) The Cavaliers when they moved up to get Irving actually had the second best odds by themselves but they fell to 4th when their other pick (originally the Clippers) moved up.

If anything the lottery should be weighted even more to the worst records. I mean if we believe the goal should be to get good players to bad teams so they stop being bad teams. Show me a team you think has tanked to the worst record and I'm pretty sure we'll be looking at a team that was going to be one of the worst teams in the league no matter what.

*Yes, Iverson was drafted first by the 76ers who had the most lottery balls in 1996. But the Raptors actually won the lottery, except they were prohibited from winning the lottery until after 1999 (which continues to be a hilariously dumb situation) and so it was re-run. The next year the Grizzlies also won the lottery, but they too were not allowed to win, so it was re-run and they were knocked down to second and the Clippers were given the chance to waste their pick on Olowokandi.
User avatar
benji
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:09 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby air gordon on Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:07 am

Benji
Sounds like most of your argument is mismanagement of the talent vs actually tanking

It was an embarrassment to see the suns shutting down a healthy bledsoe last few weeks, the Lakers sitting out players they are developing of 2nd half of games due to mysterious injuries, etc
Fire GarPax
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7111
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby mp3 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:30 am

I have no problem with "tanking" second half of the season when it's clear that a team won't make the playoffs or even if they 30 out of 40 games ment they make the playoffs to get swept in the first round your gaining nothing.

But the way the Sixers came out the gate with the worst talent you can. Possibly put out on court while not playing the more talented players much in the 2nd half of games just looked horrible for not only Sixers fans but nba fans in general, that was taking it to far in my eyes.
User avatar
mp3
 
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:45 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby benji on Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:05 am

I don't know why it's an embarrassment to do the smartest thing given available incentives.

Now your incentive as a bad team is to tank into the bottom three and do everything you can to stay there. Over multiple years; since you just saw your chances at a franchise player via one bad season being slashed in half.
User avatar
benji
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:09 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby mp3 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:48 am

Like I said I've never had a problem with tanking but the Sixers made it obvious, with letting players go who could get them a win or two, drafting players that clearly were not going to play the next season and iam not saying MCW is a franchise player or even a decent player for that matter but there are not many teams that trade a ROY the next season either.
User avatar
mp3
 
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 12:45 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 am

mp3 wrote:It does suck but winning teams with star players are a big ticket seller when there team visits town and in some cases if it's east visiting West or the other way round it could be the only time that city gets to see Curry, LeBron, Westbrook etc.

The away team might not owe the home fans jack shit but the league makes millions and the fans pay a premium to watch in person so I think the league has an obligation to make sure the star players if healthy are out there playing


Exactly, I am going to disagree with Jaosming here.

The ticket prices for games against the better teams are higher for a reason, because those teams are better with bigger names. The away teams are part of the NBA, and the NBA is for the fans, bottom line. The game is global, not tailored to one city or state. The players, owners, coaches, league etc should recognize this and put the players out there as often as possible, road or home.

This resting BS is garbage, the players acting like whiny brats is trash, and Adam Silvers approach to a lot of it is also Rubbish (That's a lot of trash). For example, the starting the season earlier because the players complained about back to backs, and open to lowering the season under 82 games. Funny, I see all the talk of "Advancements to modern medicine and technology", and advancements to the way the players diet and workout in general, but I've never heard more complaining in my life about minutes, played games, etc. Also, we still have a ton of injuries in the NBA.

Stop pampering these athletes and put them out there for the loyal fans, give me a break.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby air gordon on Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:00 am

i think Silver considering lowering the amount of 82 games is a great thing. the regular season is too long. the league loses revenue if there are less games but Silver is still open to doing it.

to be fair- players are returning quicker from major injuries. before it would take a full year for players to return from an ACL tear.

it is early on the tracking/analysis being done on player movement/minutes being played. I'm am very interested to see these findings once they have enough data
Fire GarPax
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7111
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby koberulz on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 pm

Dee4Three wrote:Funny, I see all the talk of "Advancements to modern medicine and technology", and advancements to the way the players diet and workout in general, but I've never heard more complaining in my life about minutes, played games, etc.
Because one of those advancements is understanding and monitoring workload.
User avatar
koberulz
Everything I say is false.
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:06 am

koberulz wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Funny, I see all the talk of "Advancements to modern medicine and technology", and advancements to the way the players diet and workout in general, but I've never heard more complaining in my life about minutes, played games, etc.
Because one of those advancements is understanding and monitoring workload.


Can you show me the results? Say, compared to a season like 91-92? Because I don't see the results. Not only do we have more injuries, but players can't seem to play as many games in general.

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-more-injuries-in-the-NBA-nowadays


Also, only 17 players played 82 games this past season.

Orlando: Elfrid Payton

Denver: Jamal Murray

Washington: Marcin Gortat

Phoenix: Marquese Chriss

New York: Justin Holiday

Minnesota: Karl-Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng

Atlanta: Ersan Ilyasova

Detroit: Tobias Harris

Indiana: Jeff Teague

Utah: Joe Ingles

LAL: Jordan Clarkson and Corey Brewer

LAC: Marreese Speights and Jamal Crawford

Sacramento: Buddy Hield
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby koberulz on Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:17 am

Dee4Three wrote:Not only do we have more injuries
Do we actually have more injuries, or just more reported injuries? Or more injuries that result in games missed?

but players can't seem to play as many games in general.
See my previous post.
User avatar
koberulz
Everything I say is false.
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:39 am

koberulz wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Not only do we have more injuries
Do we actually have more injuries, or just more reported injuries? Or more injuries that result in games missed?

but players can't seem to play as many games in general.
See my previous post.


I'm looking for proof of the advancements. They can say that all they want, but I don't see the results.

51 players played 82 games in 91-92, that's triple the amount of this past season (Don't say see my previous post, it's still relevant in this conversation). To go along with that, the number of injuries was also way down according to the graph in the link above. So what I want to know, is do you just hear the word "advancements", and go "They must be doing something better after all of this time", and just go with it... or do you want to see actual signs of improvement? Again, I don't see the results.

Now, if it was proven that players played a lot less games, but also had a lot fewer injuries, I could see where the "Advancements" would be working.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby benji on Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:33 pm

It's not games, it's minutes. The Spurs were once again first, but everyone's doing it.

Two players logged 3000 minutes last season, both 22 or younger, only eleven cracked 2750 including MPG leader LeBron James (37.8).

Twenty-two players logged 3000 minutes in 1991-92, with 45 playing over 2750. 20 players averaged 37.7 MPG or more.

The reason everyone talked about LeBron leading the league was because he already had logged more minutes in his career than Jordan. Not at the same age, at two years younger. He wound up ending the year over 50,000 minutes.

The regular season minutes leaders are quickly filling up with modern players, the combined minutes leaders will all be modern except for the ungodly Kareem and Malone. This is despite them playing vastly fewer minutes per game and often even playing fewer games per season. It's simply that they're playing far more seasons, and playoffs.

The non-Hall of Fame players in the top 50 in regular season minutes played that started playing after 1995 now include: KG, Kidd, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Ray Allen, Pierce, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, LeBron, Jason Terry, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Pau Gasol, Steve Nash and Michael Finley. Tony Parker, Jamal Crawford and Carmelo Anthony are all within striking distance with Anthony being a lock to not only make it but move up. Dwight seems like he should be a lock to make it too unless he retires early for a big man. And all these guys had at least one lockout shortened season, many had two. KG passed Elvin Hayes and Dirk has a good shot at it, despite both averaging under 35 MPG, Hayes did 38 MPG.

A combined minutes total would be even more overwhelmed by modern players. More rounds, more games. Kareem played in 8851 playoff minutes. Earning six rings and ten NBA Finals trips. LeBron has already played in 9127 playoff minutes. That got him three rings and eight Finals trips including a seemingly impossible seven straight. LeBron's never played less than 460 minutes in a playoff season when the Cavs got bumped in the second round and he took his talents to South Beach, Kareem's first ring only took him 577 minutes. LeBron's always played when a minimum of twelve games were required to advance to the Conference Finals. Kareem lost in three Conference Finals without having played twelve playoff games. He never needed 16 wins for a title.
User avatar
benji
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:09 am

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby koberulz on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:40 pm

Dee4Three wrote:51 players played 82 games in 91-92, that's triple the amount of this past season (Don't say see my previous post, it's still relevant in this conversation).
You're basically saying 'resting players doesn't work, because players still aren't managing to play 82 games'. Obviously they aren't playing 82 games. That's the point of resting them.
User avatar
koberulz
Everything I say is false.
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:54 pm

koberulz wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:51 players played 82 games in 91-92, that's triple the amount of this past season (Don't say see my previous post, it's still relevant in this conversation).
You're basically saying 'resting players doesn't work, because players still aren't managing to play 82 games'. Obviously they aren't playing 82 games. That's the point of resting them.


Are you going to keep ignoring the fact that there were also less injuries?
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:15 am

benji wrote:It's not games, it's minutes. The Spurs were once again first, but everyone's doing it.

Two players logged 3000 minutes last season, both 22 or younger, only eleven cracked 2750 including MPG leader LeBron James (37.8).

Twenty-two players logged 3000 minutes in 1991-92, with 45 playing over 2750. 20 players averaged 37.7 MPG or more.

The reason everyone talked about LeBron leading the league was because he already had logged more minutes in his career than Jordan. Not at the same age, at two years younger. He wound up ending the year over 50,000 minutes.

The regular season minutes leaders are quickly filling up with modern players, the combined minutes leaders will all be modern except for the ungodly Kareem and Malone. This is despite them playing vastly fewer minutes per game and often even playing fewer games per season. It's simply that they're playing far more seasons, and playoffs.

The non-Hall of Fame players in the top 50 in regular season minutes played that started playing after 1995 now include: KG, Kidd, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Ray Allen, Pierce, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, LeBron, Jason Terry, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Pau Gasol, Steve Nash and Michael Finley. Tony Parker, Jamal Crawford and Carmelo Anthony are all within striking distance with Anthony being a lock to not only make it but move up. Dwight seems like he should be a lock to make it too unless he retires early for a big man. And all these guys had at least one lockout shortened season, many had two. KG passed Elvin Hayes and Dirk has a good shot at it, despite both averaging under 35 MPG, Hayes did 38 MPG.

A combined minutes total would be even more overwhelmed by modern players. More rounds, more games. Kareem played in 8851 playoff minutes. Earning six rings and ten NBA Finals trips. LeBron has already played in 9127 playoff minutes. That got him three rings and eight Finals trips including a seemingly impossible seven straight. LeBron's never played less than 460 minutes in a playoff season when the Cavs got bumped in the second round and he took his talents to South Beach, Kareem's first ring only took him 577 minutes. LeBron's always played when a minimum of twelve games were required to advance to the Conference Finals. Kareem lost in three Conference Finals without having played twelve playoff games. He never needed 16 wins for a title.


Thank you for the well thought out post.

LeBron started his career many years earlier than Jordan, which is also why the minutes are that way. Jordan. Retired the second time (after his 6 titles) after only playing 13 years in the league. LeBron started his career at 18.

Longevity wise, I disagree with you. You mentioned a couple names, without mentioning Kevin Willis who played til he was 44, Robert Parish, AC Green, and many others. Long NBA careers still existed.

I'll say again, injuries down but minutes up 26 years ago. If any advancements have been made, I am certainly not seeing them. I do not see the results.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby koberulz on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:28 am

Reported injuries are up. Injuries requiring time off are up.

That's not the same as injuries being up.
User avatar
koberulz
Everything I say is false.
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:32 am

koberulz wrote:Reported injuries are up. Injuries requiring time off are up.

That's not the same as injuries being up.


Are you stating that as a fact? Or we don't know?

I'm asking for solid evidence of advancements.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Axel on Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:53 am

JaoSming wrote:It sucks, but away teams owe nothing to the home team's fans. Even if the away team's fanbase is shared like in Florida. It's not like there is a Lakers merch stand in Boston when they visit.


Of course they owe it to the opposing team's fans. They all play in the same league, and its success (or failure) drives the success of its franchises, which obviously benefits the players.
User avatar
Axel
 
Posts: 2853
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:46 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Lottery Reform, Fines for Resting Healthy Players

Postby Sauru on Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:53 pm

i am fine with teams resting players just give us a refund on the insane ticket prices when the top players are not playing
User avatar
Sauru
 
Posts: 7533
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:01 am


Return to NBA & Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests