Tier 2 SFs: Hayward vs Butler vs George

[NovU]

Last time we had similar discussion was for Lillard vs Irving vs Wall. This one's for 2nd tier small forward discussion mainly involving Hayward vs Butler vs George.

They are all similar age, also due for a big new fat contract or soon.

Whom would you guys sign max to and why? (they'll all get paid max but...) Or how would you rank these guys?

[big-shot-ROB]

I might still be guided by my memories of "before-knee-injury" George, but I think when focused he is on another level, making a case to be a tier-1 along with Leonard, LeBron and Durant.

[NovU]

Yeah, Paul George seemingly has another level in his game when focused.

But Advanced Stats depict Paul George as just an above average player while Butler as a true star and Hayward as a nice star player. Considering stats can't lie like some brain farts, it seems his assists come at cost of frequent turnovers. He's in Rudy Gay territory in that department, almost. Otherwise he is really a nice offensive player with high efficiency. I am thinking he's best used for teams that won't use him to initiate plays too often. Another thing to mention of course is his playoffs performance where he elevates his game which seemingly indicates he has another gear in his game. Perhaps someone else can explain better his poor regular season advanced stats? shadowgrin, benji?

That said, I am leaning toward more to Jimmy Butler due to more complete game of his. IMHO, Hayward might have better upside which we haven't seen but right now, Butler does everything that matters little bit better than Hayward.

[air gordon]

What max are we using for this? Super max?! Birds rights can be used?

[NovU]

Any max, as a lot depend on market demand.

[shadowgrin]

Interesting comparison since all three are of the same age or similar.

Looking at regular season production (p36), Butler seems like the obvious choice but his playoff production always took a dive, unsure if that's entirely on him or playoff Hoibergball or Thibs running him 44 minutes every chance in the regular season took its toll on Butler.
I expect the same disappearance in the playoffs now that he's back with Thibs playing him 42 mpg.

Haven't checked the stats to verify but one of the criticisms I read about George is that he only turns up '3 months a season', likely the last half of the season that includes playoffs.
If true, don't know if that's unintentional on George's part due to team chemistry taking time to develop throughout the season, or intentional since it's the smart move to conserve yourself for a playoff run.

Hayward arguably has the best glo up in the league. That's about it.
Great numbers from Hayward but nothing from him stands out for me in comparison to the other two, Butler gets to the line a lot while George improves come playoff time.


If I were a team owner I'd have no worries giving the max to Butler.
He's already proven he could carry a team, even a trainwreck like the Bulls with Wade jacking shots that he had no business jacking off to and a coach that's worse than Del Negro.

I'd give George the max if my team already has an established star and want George to be the sidekick.

No way I'd give Hayward the max, Rudy Gobert made him look good.

[air gordon]

would the rankings be the same now for lillard vs wall vs irving???


if i were a GM i would be hesitant to give the super max to Butler and George since both have a lot mileage. i wouldn't give hayward the super max to begin with

i think George overall has the more natural scoring talent and 3pt shot. to me George is a bit 3pt happy (though shoots a a good clip) and would like to see him get to the basket more.

a few years back it was George and Ljames as the best 2 way sf's in the league. but since the leg injury, no hibbert, and kawai busting out, George has been knocked off the list

i agree with the posts about Hayward and Butler having the better overall games. i'm not sure you can penalize Hayward for playing on a deep team, but there are less stand out games for him, specifically in this year's playoffs where it was ISO Joe having some hero games

honestly i'm not even sure Butler is a true #1 option yet he still managed to grind his way to 23ppg.

if we are just going by the "regular" max it would for me
Butler-George-Hayward (surprise! haha)

[shadowgrin]

There are only 3 players who got to the line per game more than Jimmy B, one of them is a center (Cousins) while the other two are Westbrook and Harden.

Was also able to produce 24 ppg and in an efficient way that he did despite being in a Bulls offense that's in bottom 10th of the league with Wade having a usage of almost 30%.

Only thing that would prevent Butler from reaching 'tier 1' status without Rose or Wade hogging usage now is Thibs breaking down Butler with 40+ minutes every night.

[air gordon]

Ha I just don't want come off as biased

I expect at least 37mpg for butler

[Lamrock]

I'd sign any of them for the max..Chandler Parsons is a tier 7 SF and he got 4 years/$96M, and would probably get at least two-thirds that if he entered free agency this Summer, so that's where the market is at.

Paul George is great. Probably has the most upside, though they're all the same age. He is a little inconsistent, but is a two-way player who kills it in the playoffs. Inexplicably terrible at game winners, but gambler's fallacy tells me he's due to hit a bunch this year!

Gordon Hayward is a very good player. I hope he stays in Utah. Boston has too many wings as it is, and he'd look awful in a Heat uniform. Dumb reasoning I know, but outside of the playoffs, I never watch Jazz games. Seems like he's exactly what you'd want out of a third option if you're contending.

Jimmy Butler has played the 2 more often, though they might move him to the 3 once they give up on Wiggins. He's an awesome two-way player. If he can improve his three point shot a bit, he'd be the best player here in my opinion.

You can't go wrong with any of them, but I think you'd get some diminishing returns trying to pair George and Hayward.

[Axel The Great]

I would give Gordon Hayward the max because I want a token white guy on my team.