This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Like real basketball, as well as basketball video games? Talk about the NBA, NCAA, and other professional and amateur basketball leagues here.

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:04 am

shadowgrin wrote:The statement was intended to be simple because it's supposed to summarize what I read in this thread.

You said it yourself and it's obvious to any reader to know your stance and reasons for it, there are also opinions here that I agree with that reflect my own opinion about the matter.

Why should I rehash the discussions again and again when it's clear where you stand in regard to the various discussions in the thread.

I'm not in this thread to change anyone's opinions.
I'm not here to enlighten with an epiphany about the topic.
I'm just here to give my reaction of what I just read and my very first post in this thread is exactly that.



Jackal, to quote one of the greatest thespians in our time, "I'd beat your ass like a Cherokee drum!"
Maybe fist it too.


So you piggy back other people's statements with an aggressive yet non informative statement of your own, gotcha. You came onto a thread where there was a long debate, make a statement like that, and act surprised when someone challenges said statement. You have about 22k posts on NLSC, I figured you would know how it works by now.

I come on here with statements fully knowing that I will be challenged (NovU, Air Gordon, etc). But I also bring it forth with the proper etiquette and respect for the rest of the users on the forum.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby shadowgrin on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:24 am

lol piggyback, you mean an independently formed opinion cannot have similarities or even be agreeable to another person's opinion? That's stupid if you think no.
Like I said, my post was my reaction, not to give subjectively useful information.

I wasn't surprised with the disagreement about my statement, I'm only surprised by you bringing up your life story like that's any way relevant.
I know how it works by now that's why I didn't bother pointing out every flawed shit argument in this thread when people are already firmly set on the opinions they formed.

Well, that's your own purpose here in the forums, don't assume what you do should be the same for others and expect them to adhere strictly to your preference.
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23230
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:29 am

shadowgrin wrote:lol piggyback, you mean an independently formed opinion cannot have similarities or even be agreeable to another person's opinion? That's stupid if you think no.
Like I said, my post was my reaction, not to give subjectively useful information.

I wasn't surprised with the disagreement about my statement, I'm only surprised by you bringing up your life story like that's any way relevant.
I know how it works by now that's why I didn't bother pointing out every flawed shit argument in this thread when people are already firmly set on the opinions they formed.

Well, that's your own purpose here in the forums, don't assume what you do should be the same for others and expect them to adhere strictly to your preference.


This is all I need to know about you.

The exaggeration of "bringing up your life story", when all I said was comparing an opinion to cancer didn't make sense, and I lost someone close to me to it.

If you act immature, and make immature statements, I will call it as I see it. Please stay away from basketball forums (or any forums) where you can't hold your own in a conversation.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Sauru on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:54 am

i dont even know what is going on in here anymore but i agree. lebron is a rather mediocre king. not very bright at all
User avatar
Sauru
 
Posts: 7726
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:01 am

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby shadowgrin on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:05 am

That's your problem if comparing something terrible (like an opinion) to cancer doesn't make sense to you.
Cancer references have been around in sports, often used when referring to a player with terrible attitude that should be removed from the team.
As if mentioning losing someone instantly validates your opinion on something that doesn't make sense to you.

I'm fine with that and I will continue calling stupid cancerous opinions as I see fit.
Ha, hilarious coming from someone that gets triggered when he takes offense at something he doesn't understand and would tell people what to do.
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23230
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:07 am

shadowgrin wrote:That's your problem if comparing something terrible (like an opinion) to cancer doesn't make sense to you.
Cancer references have been around in sports, often used when referring to a player with terrible attitude that should be removed from the team.
As if mentioning losing someone instantly validates your opinion on something that doesn't make sense to you.

I'm fine with that and I will continue calling stupid cancerous opinions as I see fit.
Ha, hilarious coming from someone that gets triggered when he takes offense at something he doesn't understand and would tell people what to do.


Move along.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby shadowgrin on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:13 am

Stupid Sauru. LeBron is very bright. He's player-coach-GM-agent rolled into one. Old players are just angry at him because they were too stupid to pull off what LeBron did with his buddies Wade and Bosh by syncing the expiration of their contracts and signing to a team together.
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23230
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:36 am

Hey Dee. Refresh my memory if you could
Do you remember all the games you watched of Jordan, bird, etc? Did you have access to all their games? Do you rewatch them too?

Not sure if this was discussed
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:45 am

air gordon wrote:Hey Dee. Refresh my memory if you could
Do you remember all the games you watched of Jordan, bird, etc? Did you have access to all their games? Do you rewatch them too?

Not sure if this was discussed



We discussed viewing I believe. I watched a ton of basketball in the 90s, all the way up until today. Impossible to remember every game.

I absolutely still watch old games on youtube, on my downtime. Many times the full game if it's shown.

I have certainly watched enough to have my opinions (and have them strong) on the game, players etc.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:43 am

I'm assuming you're in the east. How did you get to watch the western conference games?

I'll have to check out YouTube for some of the 90's games. There's a highlight clip of Jordan on the wiz vs pip on the blazers. Some good stuff there

Speaking of, what do you think of Scottie pippen migraine headache game 7 of the conf. Semifinals vs the pistons? Mind you pippen is probably my fav player of all time. Perhaps his worst moment in his career

I think around this time Jordan was receiving the most criticism in his career. Could Jordan have done more and step it up even another notch? You think Jordan should have lifted the team to victory against an inferior opponent? Even john Salley admitted in interviews this.
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:59 am

air gordon wrote:I'm assuming you're in the east. How did you get to watch the western conference games?

I'll have to check out YouTube for some of the 90's games. There's a highlight clip of Jordan on the wiz vs pip on the blazers. Some good stuff there

Speaking of, what do you think of Scottie pippen migraine headache game 7 of the conf. Semifinals vs the pistons? Mind you pippen is probably my fav player of all time. Perhaps his worst moment in his career

I think around this time Jordan was receiving the most criticism in his career. Could Jordan have done more and step it up even another notch? You think Jordan should have lifted the team to victory against an inferior opponent? Even john Salley admitted in interviews this.


This is answering your question, not my life story, just FYI.

I caught most every Celtics game. And every nationally televised game through most of the 90s. When I was in 3rd grade, my parents took me out of school, and I didn't go back to school for 7 years after. Basketball was on at my house whenever it was on tv, it was an obsession in my house. So without a bed time for school, I would camp myself in front of my tv during Celtics games and keep stats, and I would watch most nationally televised games. When I wasn't watching, I was playing.

I often watch classic games on youtube as well. It's cool because not only do they have a lot of highlights, but they have full games (or mostly full), like you can watch some old Isiah Thomas Pistons games, it's nice to go back and appreciate them.

In regards to Pippen, he was still kind of a baby in the league (that was his 3rd season), and he actually had back issues (with surgery) his rookie season. That game was the first I heard of his migraines... do I think it impacted his legacy? Not really, I think we still would have been talking about him basically the same being that he wasn't the alpha on his team anyway. In regards to Jordan, he went 13 for 27, but the rest of the starters went 10 for 49, completely ice cold. I think Jordan did the best he could in that series with what he had. The Bulls scored only 74 points in that game though (Jordan had 30+ with 9 assists).

I'd honestly have to go back and see if I can find the full game again to watch, it's possible he could have done more, but I havn't watched that in awhile. That Pistons team was so physical, because I havn't seen the game in awhile, I wonder how many of those shots by Jordans teammates were heavily contested?

In fact, that entire game is on youtube. I'm going to rewatch it.

Pippen shot 1-10.... ouch.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:21 pm

Easy there with the life story jab. Youre supposed to be above that right lol

That's eastern conf finals. Duh! So you dropping boxscores from memory? ;)

Not per say an alpha but Im pretty sure pip was just coming into his own that year.
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:30 pm

air gordon wrote:Easy there with the life story jab. Youre supposed to be above that right lol

That's eastern conf finals. Duh! So you dropping boxscores from memory? ;)

Not per say an alpha but Im pretty sure pip was just coming into his own that year.


I'm a huge Pippen fan, he was awesome.

No. I had to go back and look at it. I'd feel pretty awesome about myself if I had that memorized.

I remember Jordan had a good game, but the Bulls score was low, and that Pippen had a horrible game.

I'm going to watch the whole game again though, I just checked and it's still on youtube.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:42 pm

I remember it being an ugly game and I'm pretty sure it will look even uglier now. I always thought the piston offense was garbage. I'm interested to see how it looks 20 some years later
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby NovU on Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

I am gone just for a day and shitnammi titlewave engulfs this place. This is why I can't leave this forum. I just can't leave you shit kids alone, somebody needs to extinguish shitflames.




I am not an ageist but weren't you kids like 5 to 10 year old when Jordan was in prime. Tbh makes me wanna trust memories of Sauru more, even tho he's suffering from Alzheimer disease.
THX TO DOPE-JAO FOR THE SPECIAL SIG! <3
Image
Enjoy! <3 Jao
User avatar
NovU
Crap, what am I going to brag about now?
 
Posts: 11325
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Stress Fracture on Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:44 pm

Welcome back, shadowgrin.
benji wrote:LeBron is such a choker. And people were talking about him as an all-time great. As having possibly surpassed Kobe. What a joke.

velvet bliss wrote:Andrew, you the real MVP.

Andrew wrote:He who flops and flails to the Finals and a title, flops and flails best.
Stress Fracture
 
Posts: 2949
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:03 pm

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby shadowgrin on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:04 pm

James Harden is just an overrated Gilbert Arenas, stress.



air gordon wrote:I always thought the piston offense was garbage. I'm interested to see how it looks 20 some years later

I know you only deal with facts ag but if you would take a wild guess, how far would that offense take the Pistons in today's game? Playoffs? Lottery team? Barely a playoff team?
Don't mind their defense, a team can make the playoffs without defense anyway, just look at the Rockets (ha fracture).
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23230
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Jeffx on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:02 pm

Dee4Three wrote:
air gordon wrote:Hey Dee. Refresh my memory if you could
Do you remember all the games you watched of Jordan, bird, etc? Did you have access to all their games? Do you rewatch them too?

Not sure if this was discussed



We discussed viewing I believe. I watched a ton of basketball in the 90s, all the way up until today. Impossible to remember every game.

I absolutely still watch old games on youtube, on my downtime. Many times the full game if it's shown.

I have certainly watched enough to have my opinions (and have them strong) on the game, players etc.



If you really want some fun, watch Game 5 of the 1976 Finals, Boston/Phoenix. I was 15 at the time - still the best playoff game I ever saw. Incredible performance by JoJo White.
Jeffx
 
Posts: 3184
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:09 am
Location: Bronx, New York

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:46 pm

Jeffx wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
air gordon wrote:Hey Dee. Refresh my memory if you could
Do you remember all the games you watched of Jordan, bird, etc? Did you have access to all their games? Do you rewatch them too?

Not sure if this was discussed



We discussed viewing I believe. I watched a ton of basketball in the 90s, all the way up until today. Impossible to remember every game.

I absolutely still watch old games on youtube, on my downtime. Many times the full game if it's shown.

I have certainly watched enough to have my opinions (and have them strong) on the game, players etc.



If you really want some fun, watch Game 5 of the 1976 Finals, Boston/Phoenix. I was 15 at the time - still the best playoff game I ever saw. Incredible performance by JoJo White.


I watched that on ESPN classic when they aired it, and I watched it on Youtube as well because they have the whole game. So many big shots. I can't imagine not having major anxiety (especially being a Celtics fan) sitting in front of the tv watching that game live.


NovU wrote: I am not an ageist but weren't you kids like 5 to 10 year old when Jordan was in prime. Tbh makes me wanna trust memories of Sauru more, even tho he's suffering from Alzheimer disease.


That doesn't mean that we can't go back and watch a lot of film (including full games) to make an opinion on said player for those years. If that wasn't acceptable in order to form an opinion, not one of us could actually make any comments on the actual play of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem in his prime, etc.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:48 am

shadowgrin wrote:
air gordon wrote:I always thought the piston offense was garbage. I'm interested to see how it looks 20 some years later

I know you only deal with facts ag but if you would take a wild guess, how far would that offense take the Pistons in today's game? Playoffs? Lottery team? Barely a playoff team?
Don't mind their defense, a team can make the playoffs without defense anyway, just look at the Rockets (ha fracture).

ha i try to deal with reality. even if i was around to watch the games (mostly bulls games) i may remember the "big plays" but that's it. and i didn't know the game back then. as i said before i try to keep a happy medium between stats and the games. prolly pay most attention to in game strategy now though

regarding the pistons, i think they would be a playoff team. i say garbage based on i just didn't like the pistons. laimbeer's skillset would fit right in with today's game. would their other players be better 3pt shooters if they played in this era? who knows. wake up benji, im sure he could have a better for answer for you

and welcome back. im due for some MIA myself lol
Dee4Three wrote:If that wasn't acceptable in order to form an opinion, not one of us could actually make any comments on the actual play of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem in his prime, etc.

that's not consistent with your decree of being able to post whatever you want. but really, you would have to watch ALL of the games and then rewatch all of them again and again and then probably again to know what happened in the game. maybe more. it's easy to point out jordan or whichever player x had a monster game in a particular game to prove your point he had a killer instinct. but what about the other games where he took 44 shots to score 43 points, forced a lot bad/contested shots, was just off altogether?
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:55 am

Let me rephrase.

None of us would be able to make a strong stance or educated comments if it was based on watching it all live.

In regards to having to watch all game's, and over and over. Etc. Even now, and not ever, do we have the capability to do that. So not even sure why that would even be brought up.

You can watch large bodies of work (Including full games and highlights) of players past and present and see the skill sets of said players. Including repetoires, foot work, body control, abilities, strengths/weaknesses etc. That's how we form our opinions of the players and how they play.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:19 am

again we can do this dance of because you saw it, your argument is better/more valid i suppose

i just don't agree. can you absolutely determine a given player had the best footwork, body control, etc because you saw it happen? ill even admit stats can't measure those things. maybe if we did some virtual dance with the stars nba style you could determine if hakeem had better footwork then jordan

better shooter/better strengths/weaknesses, etc? how would you know if you just watched the games? what makes a player a better shooter? did you keep a running count in your head of all the stats? if your mind is not open to adding stats to a discussion.. due to some perceived biases you think are in the stats or a specific era was "weaker" making them invalid...
it's a closed discussion.

interestingly enough i asked you about the scottie pippen migraine game and you couldn't remember. you had to look it up and in fact referenced the box scores!
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:26 am

air gordon wrote:again we can do this dance of because you saw it, your argument is better/more valid i suppose

i just don't agree. can you absolutely determine a given player had the best footwork, body control, etc because you saw it happen? ill even admit stats can't measure those things. maybe if we did some virtual dance with the stars nba style you could determine if hakeem had better footwork then jordan

better shooter/better strengths/weaknesses, etc? how would you know if you just watched the games? what makes a player a better shooter? did you keep a running count in your head of all the stats? if your mind is not open to adding stats to a discussion.. due to some perceived biases you think are in the stats or a specific era was "weaker" making them invalid...
it's a closed discussion.

interestingly enough i asked you about the scottie pippen migraine game and you couldn't remember. you had to look it up and in fact referenced the box scores!


I think we are just doing a verbal dance in general, haha.

I had to look up the stats, I remembered the game and some parts of it. You expect me to remember every aspect? You are doing verbal gymnastics and it's not working, it just doesn't make sense.

I think you can tell how good a players footwork/body control/shot/dribble/defense etc is by watching, it is the only way we would know. Stats can tell some stories (as I have stated, I have not counted out stats completely). I stated that stats don't tell the whole story, and that is a fact. I have actually stuck to the same viewpoint since the start, I have not deviated.

Basically, we are going in circles. I am okay with us agreeing to disagree at this point, this is kind of exhausting. However, if you want to keep going, I'm cool with that as well.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby air gordon on Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:04 am

I must have missed the part where you said you have not counted out stats completely. Must have been lost in between you lecturing us to watch the games/ its the only way to form a strong opinion

So if we had a discussion on who was a great free shooter, would you dig up some vintage games on rick Barry ;)

Or something a little more complicated- best perimeter shooter. how do you determine accurately who is a better shooter between multiple players just by watching the games on YouTube?

And defense- how do you arbitrarily determine this?
Jump.
Scott Skiles answer to the question on how Eddy Curry can become a better rebounder
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7867
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:31 am

You use your mind, Air Gordon. You watch, and compare what you see from both players. You are doing verbal gymnastics, again.

If I watch a large portion of film on Hakeem Olajuwon, and Tim Duncan... I can see the differences between both players repertories/skill levels. Olajuwon had better footwork/more moves in the post/better body control, it's also clear watching the both of them that Olajuwon was a supreme shot blocker (Better timing), and just overall a more elite defender. Also by viewing, you can see that Olajuwon would be doubled more often than Duncan, because he was a more unstoppable offensive player.

If I watch a large portion of film on Michael Jordan and Lebron James, I can easily see that Michael Jordan has the confidence in his mid range and post games, and goes to it often, and I can see the defenders and how they defend him on the floor having to respect all aspects of his Mid range/driving/post game. On the flip side, I can see that LeBron does not have the confidence in his shot, and can't rely on it the same as Jordan. Teams even back off from LeBron and allow him to shoot those shots a good portion of the time, because he is not a consistent outside shooter. I can also see that LeBron rarely goes into the post, but when he does, he will pass it out more often than not, and that his repertoire down there is extremely limited (Outside of just turning the corner or an occasional baseline spin move). When both players drive to the hoop, LeBron does not have the same body control as Jordan, he can't contort his body the same ways, and he has trouble finishing layups with a lot of contact (If he gets knocked off his shot). When you watch Jordan, he can take off from anywhere within 10 feet, and make a move contorting his body in ways LeBron couldn't dream of physically doing. Defensively, Jordan appears to be a better on the ball defender, as he looks quicker laterally, and has better hands, he is also lower in his defensive stance. LeBron can guard PF's and even some C's in the NBA Today, and could possibly hold his ground better as a post defender in general, but visually I see him as a weaker defender on the perimeter to Jordan. For example, Hakeem Olajuwon worked with LeBron, and had his steady dose of Jordan, and he stated that it's not fair to compare the two, because Jordan is a far superior basketball player. What he said, is what I believe based on watching both players play.

If I watch Allan Houston and compare him to Reggie Miller, I can see that Allan Houston has a superior mid-range game to Miller as he gets up higher on his jump shot, relies on it far more, is a superior ball handler to Miller, and has a better high post game in general, he was also stronger than Miller and you could see him getting defenders on his side and the defender having to ride him to the hoop. You would also often see Allan Houston in the post in general, because he had a post fadeaway (which Miller never showed he had), and that Houston had other moves down low (Up and under, etc).

You can visually see those things. And yes, I think if the discussion is brought up "Who is better?" you can go to what you have seen visually seen and make your case. If I see a player go to a certain move/skill set, and that he succeeds in that often and throughout his career, and I see another player who rarely shows it or doesn't show it at all, the player who has shown it, shown that he can do it, shown that he can depend on it, is superior at it. What I want to know, is how is it that my reasons above, and my reasons for believing a player is superior to another, deserve criticism, or is somehow considered a shit argument, or even a bias one? I am literally going by my belief based on what I see from each player, and have not deviated from that viewpoint.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA


Follow me on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Dee4Three84
User avatar
Dee4Three
NLSC Team Member
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 9681
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

PreviousNext

Return to NBA & Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests