Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

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Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Andrew on Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:52 am

It's official, though there are questions about his stock.

Simmons largely exceeded expectations from a statistical standpoint, averaging 19.2 points, 11.8 rebounds and 4.8 assists per game. The 6-foot-10 Australian native became a SportsCenter staple almost immediately because he could do things others his size could not, from leading a fast break, to delivering pinpoint no-look passes, to attacking the rim himself.

But while Simmons was throwing down YouTube-worthy dunks and dishing out Vine-worthy assists, LSU was assembling an NIT-level resume. The coaching staff could not seem to figure out how to get the most out of a roster that included Simmons, fellow five-star freshman Antonio Blakeney, pro prospect Tim Quarterman and former Arizona transfer Craig Victor.


Simmons' uninspired late-season play and poor body language earned him criticism. He could be the first No. 1 overall pick to play college basketball and not make the NCAA tournament in his draft year since Pacific's Michael Olowokandi in 1998.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby mp3 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:20 pm

This is the thing with March Madness that players who have a good March run tend to be put into lottery picks while players who have being great all year long that get bounced early tend to slide.

There is no chance Ben falls out of the top 2 slots but he was a lock for the number one pick all year round.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Bruce on Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:14 pm

mp3 wrote:This is the thing with March Madness that players who have a good March run tend to be put into lottery picks


this reminds me of mateen cleaves


I think wherever Ben Simmons goes, he needs to develop his jump shot to be a good nba player.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Corymach7 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:53 pm

Ben Simmons? To me, 4th. My latest mock draft is:

1. Bucks - Jaylen Brown (Yup, to trade Middleton)
2. Lakers - Grayson Allen (Kobe is retiring and Jaylen Brown would be the Lakers first choice. Jaylen goes to MIL and the Lakers go with Grayson Allen to replace Kobe)
3. 76ers - Jamal Murray (76ers need a guard and Jamal Murray out of Kentucky would be good fit)
4. Suns - Ben Simmons (He's a choker and shown in LSU, but still good for the lottery to be the Suns power forward)
5. Celtics - Jacob Poeltl (Tyler Zeller might leave to be alongside Cody Zeller in Charlotte, so Jacob could replace Zeller)
6. Timberwolves - Nigel Hayes (The T'Wolves are using a 2 center experiment with Pekovic and Towns. To end it, Nigel Hayes would be picked by Minnesota and be the Power Forward while Towns is the starting center)
7. Knicks - Kris Dunn (Great Providence player to be fit to replace Langston Galloway)
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby PeacemanNOT on Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:57 pm

The 76ers are about to ruin this mans career :lol:
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby mp3 on Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:17 am

Sorry to mess up your whole draft chemistry thing you have going on but the knicks don't have a pick this year
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Andrew on Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:34 am

Giving the Bucks the top pick in any mock draft is also wishful thinking at this point. I mean, it certainly can happen, but generally speaking, mock drafts assume the lottery will play out according to the odds granted by the current standings, rather than making additional predictions on top of that.

It does sound like attitude/a lack of competitiveness could be a problem with Simmons, though it could ultimately come down to just needing to mature a bit. He'll soon find that he gets nowhere fast in the NBA by slacking off when things get tough. LSU missing the tournament isn't a good look for him, but it also highlights how team success only seems to factor into the evaluation of a player when we want it to. "If you're on a team with a losing record, you shouldn't be MVP/an All-Star". "His numbers alone are impressive, he should be a candidate." "Look at his team's record! He's clearly the MVP!" "Yeah, but look at his teammates, of course the team is winning." "Those championships don't mean anything, he didn't win them alone." "But did he win eleven championships, like Bill Russell?" "It's not his fault, the team sucks." "If he's such a superstar, why didn't he carry them?" Team success, or lack thereof, counts against a player, except when it doesn't.

I hope Simmons does find success. He's an Aussie, he spent some of his childhood in my home town when his father played for our (now-defunct) NBL team, and one of my friends from high school actually coached him when he was first playing rep basketball. It'd be nice to have an Aussie in the league who has a real shot at being a big deal, rather than just a good, solid role player. Not that I haven't enjoyed that, but I'd like to see us produce a star at some point. It seems like Simmons will still go high in the Draft despite the Tigers missing the tournament; hopefully, he'll pan out, wherever he lands.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Phil89 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:25 pm

I'm pretty excited to see what he can do at the next level. He has a pretty unique set of skills.

Andrew Bogut was talking about him a bit on the Bill Simmons podcast. He reckons that the whole outside shot thing isn't too big a deal because it's something you can fix over an off-season with a bit of hard work and Ben has the right work ethic to do it.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby NovU on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:46 pm

Ben Simmons is an interesting prospect but he's clearly no LBJ. I would go with Brandon Ingram over Simmons.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby [Q] on Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:12 am

Is Ben Simmons the next Marvin Williams?
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby NovU on Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:41 am

According to DraftExpress...

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/
1. Simmons' lack of competitiveness in some crucial games has raised questions about his character as a basketball player. While many top picks succumb to the NBA star lifestyle and emerge as average competitors, it's rare to see that at the collegiate level. From Blake Griffin to Michael Beasley to Carmelo Anthony, those elite college players were rarely questioned about their drive during their collegiate careers. Simmons has displayed an apathy for defense, contact and delivering winning plays in crucial moments. Those troubling revelations in Simmons' game are cause for concern among decision-makers on lottery teams with whom we've had contact.

Here's what NBA teams wonder: If Simmons cares so little about winning crucial college road games at Tennessee or Kentucky that could have delivered LSU to the NCAA tournament, how much will he consistently care about competing over a far more physically and mentally draining 82-game pro season? Truth be told, Simmons will almost assuredly be on a bad team that will need to fight every night to win games.

2. Simmons' box scores have grown increasingly hollow. One NBA executive described him as a “taller Rajon Rondo, a more athletic Evan Turner, or a skinnier Royce White.” Simmons has displayed a penchant for stat-mongering like few players in recent memory, seeming to pad his numbers in blowouts. At times, it appears he only passes when guaranteed an assist and chases home-run plays at inopportune times in search of a highlight. Simmons seems to value those things over winning.

Simmons' porous defense is masked by his gaudy steal and block numbers. But when watching him closely, it's clear that no opposing player or coach fears attacking him. As Simmons rarely makes the effort to close out on shooters, put a body on opposing big men, or offer much beyond gambling wildly swiping for steals, his lack of intensity is amplified. He has wonderful anticipation skills as a rebounder and will wow you with his instincts in passing lanes. But overall, Simmons hasn't shown the length, toughness and inclination to emerge as an asset on the defensive end.

Simmons' short wingspan (measured 6-foot-11 at the Nike Hoop Summit in April and the Nike Skills Academy in June) won't help him play power forward on an NBA lottery team. To make up for his lack of length, he'll have to display a much higher activity level than what he's shown in college.

3. The report on defending Simmons in the half-court is well known and was utilized effectively in recent weeks. Teams put smaller players on Simmons, backing off him and daring him to shoot. Simmons seems to have zero confidence in his outside shot and becomes passive when guarded this way.

For his size (6-10), Simmons is a gifted ball-handler. He has an incredible ability to change speeds, get to the rim and finish in transition. In the half-court, things haven't been quite as easy against better teams, particularly late in games. There are real questions about pairing Simmons with other ball-handlers or non-shooters in the NBA. Does drafting Simmons in the high lottery mean a team needs to trade the likes of D'Angelo Russell, Julius Randle, Jahlil Okafor or Dario Saric?

4. Simmons' teammates aren't as bad as many would lead you to believe. LSU has six consensus top-100 recruits on their roster (and two more who were ranked just outside the top-100 by various outlets), far more than the overwhelming majority of teams that made this year's NCAA Tournament. If Simmons were truly the -transcendent can't miss superstar many would lead you to believe, he would have found ways to win games against the likes of College of Charleston, Houston, Wake Forest, Marquette, Tennessee, Alabama, N.C. State and South Carolina, all of whom are ranked outside of the KenPom Top-50. LSU doesn't lack talent as much as they lack chemistry, and part of the blame for that has to go to their best player.

Many will point the finger to LSU's head coach Johnny Jones as the culprit behind his team's underachieving, and there certainly is some truth to that. But Simmons has no one to blame for that but himself. Simmons may never get the chance to pick his head coach again in his career, and he decided to put his faith in Jones and his own godfather David Patrick. If Simmons was so quick to quit on his own self-described family member and the head coach he handpicked for himself to lead him at the college level, as soon as things got a little bit difficult, what will happen when he hits a patch of adversity at the NBA level? Will his future agent demand a trade? Or for the head coach to be fired like Simmons' supposed new best friend LeBron James reportedly did with David Blatt?

5. The concerns about Simmons' character didn't magically appear the moment he arrived on campus in Baton Rouge. Those sentiments also have been expressed by members of the Australian national team who have spent time with him at the junior and senior levels. Australian players and coaches who have been around him don't speak about him in flattering terms, calling him “the Yank” to highlight how different he is compared with most of the players from that country, and perhaps highlight how much moving to the United States at a young age and immersing himself in the AAU world has shaped him.

Those who know him best say he needs things to revolve around him on and off the court and that he's often been close-minded to coaching or instruction. Can all this be blamed on LSU? Check out the “mentality” section of Simmons' “weaknesses” breakdown in a video Mike Schmitz created prior to this season.

The uncertainty surrounding Simmons has cleared the way for Duke forward Brandon Ingram to be considered the No. 1 overall prospect.

Ingram is 14 months younger than Simmons, has a longer wingspan by four inches and a standing reach six and a half inches higher. Ingram is a better shooter – which is perhaps the most important skill in today's NBA – and has shown a much better trajectory throughout the college season. The intel on Ingram as a teammate and competitor has been much stronger than Simmons'. Yes, Ingram has a much more frail frame now, but it's easy to envision him filling out as he ages and matures.

There is still plenty of time for Simmons to improve his approach to the game and reach his potential. Although he's not the generational talent he's been sold as by some, he's a unique prospect who could emerge as an incredible asset to a team down the road if he's willing to address his flaws.

If Simmons had a far stronger preliminary case in November to become the No. 1 overall pick in June, our recent conversations with NBA executives have offered a far different reality for Simmons. There may never be a consensus choice for the first pick in this draft, but make no mistake: The debate is on, and the overhyping of Simmons has made its reckoning. Ingram has played himself into the debate, and it promises to rage into late June.


Biggest scare probably is lackluster improvement over past 3 seasons.



What you guys think? Does Jackal and Lakers fans still want this kid?
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Jeffx on Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:11 am

mp3 wrote:Sorry to mess up your whole draft chemistry thing you have going on but the knicks don't have a pick this year



Yep....Knicks traded their pick to Toronto for the immortal Andrea Bargnani.

You can't make this stuff up......
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Andrew on Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:04 am

Those issues outlined with Simmons are definitely cause for concern, and it might see him slip to second or third in the Draft. I think the talent he has displayed will stop him from falling too far, if he doesn't end up being the top pick. At the same time, I think he has to be given a chance before he's written off. Some of the best players in history have been underrated and underestimated in their pre-Draft evaluations, based on incorrect assumptions or weaknesses they've ultimately been able to overcome, whether it's mental or skill related.

Maybe he is destined to be less than expected, in which case I expect there'll be a lot of people saying "told you so", because schadenfreude never goes out of style. I still say he needs to be given a chance to mature, learn, and grow as a person and a player, and an opportunity to either "get it" or not, before it's declared that he'll never "get it".

On the subject of the Boomers, though...

The concerns about Simmons' character didn't magically appear the moment he arrived on campus in Baton Rouge. Those sentiments also have been expressed by members of the Australian national team who have spent time with him at the junior and senior levels. Australian players and coaches who have been around him don't speak about him in flattering terms, calling him “the Yank” to highlight how different he is compared with most of the players from that country, and perhaps highlight how much moving to the United States at a young age and immersing himself in the AAU world has shaped him.


I feel like that should be taken with a healthy grain of salt (or unhealthy amount, as the case may be). Not to dismiss it entirely, but it also sounds like there might be a bit of sour grapes and Tall Poppy Syndrome there. In Australia, people often get overly sensitive about our cultural identity, customs, and even attitude. I mean, there are people who get really upset that Halloween has become a thing over the past few decades, because it's an "American tradition", as opposed to an Australian one. This of course is putting aside that a lot of our traditions are originally British, or in the case of Christmas trees, German. Their calling him "the Yank" could come down to a culture clash that's the result of him going through a system that's intended to cultivate professional athletes...and maybe a bit of jealousy, too.

Of course, it's not the only evidence that he's exhibited some diva-like behaviour, so again, I'm not going to dismiss it entirely. But given some of the insecurity and jealousy that permeates Aussie culture and attitudes at times, I do wonder if that part is a little overblown, and just how much stock we should place in it.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby NovU on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:18 pm

Andrew wrote:Some of the best players in history have been underrated and underestimated in their pre-Draft evaluations, based on incorrect assumptions or weaknesses they've ultimately been able to overcome, whether it's mental or skill related.

I think that's a very good point.

Ben Simmons is still a top 3 prospect and we shouldn't be surprised if went #1.




Btw is Buddy Hield for real? He seems to be a light combination of Wade and CJ McCollum. Downside is he's 22.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby [Q] on Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:26 pm

I'd still take him on the Lakers. Better than losing the pick to Philadelphia
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby koberulz on Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:56 pm

I also wonder how much of the attitude is generated by the fact that the minimum age requirement is the only reason he's playing college ball in the first place. Particularly things like stat-padding; it's pretty much what you'd expect from a guy who's only there to get the best draft position possible.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Jeffx on Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:58 pm

koberulz wrote:I also wonder how much of the attitude is generated by the fact that the minimum age requirement is the only reason he's playing college ball in the first place.


That's what I think it is.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Andrew on Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:05 pm

All the more reason to reconsider the age limit, or look at letting players go to the D-League for a year before they enter the Draft. I mean, you've got an established minor league in place, you might as well use it to its full potential.
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby Jackal on Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:54 pm

Would I take Simmons? The Lakers need to take whoever between Ingram/Simmons, as long as they don't fall out of the top 3.

I haven't read/seen enough to choose between the two and I'm not even going to try. Last year I had a boner for Okafor because I only read up on him. Russell > Okafor though so like I said; not doing that this year.

I have read it's only really about these two guys though, what happens if LA falls to 3?
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby NovU on Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:49 am

Jackal wrote:I have read it's only really about these two guys though, what happens if LA falls to 3?

Beats me. Lakers better get top 2 or bust. Im hoping tank76ers get 3rd for karma.


Perhaps Dunn, Hield, or Dragan at 3rd? Tbh its looking like a weak class especially compared to last
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Re: Ben Simmons declares for the Draft

Postby air gordon on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:52 am

not to worry. the draft hype train will pick up steam once the finals are over ;)
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