Chicago Bulls Thread

[Moz]

Taj should've been there for rebounds instead of Niko... I'm so pissed when he flopped instead of hustling for the ball when Teletovic stripped it from him... Also am I the only one who's not enjoying the swapping of the defensive and offensive line-up every time out in every closing minutes of games? This game's scenario should make Hoiberg decide already who will be his finishers...

[air gordon]

taj and Noah should have been both in. I'm ok with the offense defense switches if you put the right guys in

Go figure the guys I criticize all stepped up. So let's try this:

Every game King is pointing out on the telestrater how crappy Gasol is on pick n roll defense and how Rose lets his man cheat off him. Fredberg do something about this

[air gordon]

Just about 25% into the season
Thoughts on the team?
Meeting, falling above/below expectations?
Hoiberg doing well?
Player performance?

[Andrew]

When you look at their record compared to the rest of the East, and some of the teams that were expected to do really well out West, it's not so bad. Third in the conference, the same amount of losses as the first and second seeds...they could be in a worse spot. However, I was hoping they'd be better offensively, and that hasn't happened yet.

Part of that could be ascribed to Derrick Rose's shooting percentage. If those shots are falling, he's averaging up around 20 ppg, and they're probably looking a lot better offensively. I like that he's attacking the basket and as I've said before, his shot selection itself hasn't been terrible. But he's gotta start knocking down the shots he's capable of making. Hopefully his eye is completely healed soon.

I'd like to see McDermott get some more time. He's been one of their more reliable shooters, and as it stands, he's averaging 9 points while playing less than half the game. I think he should take some more minutes from Snell. I wish Mirotic would find some rhythm. The skillset is there, but the consistency in his shooting isn't. Gotta be fairly satisfied with Butler.

I believe they are capable of playing better, and feel there's a good chance that they will, as the season progresses. Rose getting his eye back in and McDermott getting some more minutes will help that, in my estimation.

[air gordon]

Interesting take. I see the Bulls as an average team with some potential to be better. They tease with wins against the upper tier teams but struggle against the others

I'm gong to be critical with this team. If they ever put it together I'll be glad to eat crow

I would like to see the management move on from this core of players. They had a good run with injuries playing a part in what could have been...

The roster needs more balance. Most of the players are 1 dimensional with their weaknesses being pretty glaring.

The starting lineup is featuring 3 minus players in Rose, Niko, and Snell.

Pau is a good player but he can't move out of the lane on defense and the guy next to him isn't a good defender either.

I think even Fredberg is confused with what the Bulls offense is. They push the ball but most possessions end up in ISO or high pick with rose and Pau. When teams start caring in the 4th, they just guard Pau on the roll/fa out since Rose can't shoot

There seems to be more ball movement with the 2nd unit

I think Fredberg overall has done a good job. He's shown the willingness to shuffle the lineup and mix up the play calls to get certain players going. I don't think the current roster fits the scheme he wants to run- specifically Rose and Pau.

[Andrew]

Yesterday's loss to the Celtics was a pretty abysmal effort in the fourth quarter. Credit to the Celtics, of course, but the Bulls didn't do themselves any favours for the first seven or eight minutes of the quarter. A bit of a spirited run towards the end, but too little, too late, after they dug themselves that hole.

[air gordon]

Ah shucks I missed Jeff van gundy's first crack at calling the Bulls this year

Listened to Chicago team instead. Heard JVG proposed the Bulls to hire Thibs as their offensive coordinator due to the Bulls offensive struggles

[Andrew]

I thought the Clippers were going to send it into overtime after Butler missed that short hook after a very nice fake. By the skin of their teeth, but we'll all take it just the same.

[Cpt(K)]

It was refreshing to see Derrick's hair getup return to his early MVP days. If he keeps it this way I'll lose motivation for learning how to edit/create cyberfaces as I was bothered in nba 2k11, which I still play now n' then to have more or less updated rosters, but old cyberfaces.

[Andrew]

Let's also see if the mask was more of a hindrance than anything else.

[Andrew]

As much as it sucks to see Rose not having much of a positive impact right now...I'm pretty happy that they didn't give the 76ers their second win of the season. It felt like it was coming after the first half, so it was a relief to see them avoid that embarrassment at home.

[Moz]

Hearing the post game interviews, he and Jimmy are a little under the weather (with him having it worse). Those buckets in the 3rd are a great fire starter though until Felix Snelly Cat woke up from being dormant... Although he's not contributing that much on scoring, Jo has been awesome facilitating for the last few games now. A lot of people are blaming Hoiberg for their offense but it's really the players' fault since they're just standing around and having questionable shot selections lately... I don't like the Jo and Pau pairing but it's becoming more favorable now to put them as starters or perhaps be it Taj and just play Jo more minutes. It seems he got his mojo back so they should take advantage of it before he break down or be apathetic for being relegated to the bench... Brooks has been great in the Pelicans game but I'm loving that Hoiberg benched him after those 2 dumb shots he took.

[air gordon]

Hearing the post game interviews, he and Jimmy are a little under the weather (with him having it worse). Those buckets in the 3rd are a great fire starter though until Felix Snelly Cat woke up from being dormant... Although he's not contributing that much on scoring, Jo has been awesome facilitating for the last few games now. A lot of people are blaming Hoiberg for their offense but it's really the players' fault since they're just standing around and having questionable shot selections lately...

i agree and i don't think the current roster suits Hoiberg's offense which is supposed to set up the offense early in the clock, empahsize ball movement, create open perimeter shooting. this Bulls team doesn't do that- Rose, Butler, and Gasol are ballstoppers and they don't have those perimeter shooting guys. when Rose does not have the ball, he is almost useless and teams are getting smart by helping off of him. the bulls are dreadfully near last on offense

the 2nd unit runs the offense. there is player and ball movement. McBucket's threat of canning the 3pter makes the defense pay attention. the noah back door back pass still works

I don't like the Jo and Pau pairing but it's becoming more favorable now to put them as starters or perhaps be it Taj and just play Jo more minutes. It seems he got his mojo back so they should take advantage of it before he break down or be apathetic for being relegated to the bench...

maybe Thibs was right the whole time pairing them. seriously. Jo has to play for the reasons stated. maybe if Niko ever snaps out of it, he could get more minutes. right now taj and JO should be eating up the minutes

it was nice for a change they had a blowout, even if was against the sixers. the schedule is soft the rest of the december. they should pile up some victories, taking pressure off of the management. that 3 game losing streak had to get their butt's tight for a supposed championship contending roster they put together

also glad of the report saying the bulls were included in the list teams inquiring about cousins. they probably don't have the pieces like Boston to get it done but at least GarPax made a call.

[air gordon]

Quick game of "Would you rather"...

Would you rather have the current incarnation of rose?
Or
1990 John Paxson

Ok go....

[Andrew]

Unless 1990 Michael Jordan is also on the team, probably Rose.

[air gordon]

forget jordan, why Rose over Paxson?

[Andrew]

It's tough to go past Paxson's shooting, especially with Rose's current percentages, but I believe Rose can still draw more defensive attention, opening up looks for others when he's not finishing himself...which he might finally be able to start doing effectively again. That's why I mentioned 1990 MJ: if he's there as the primary scorer rather than Butler, Rose, or Gasol, then I'll take Paxson for his abilities to shoot and play off the ball. I'd say Rose also has a more diverse skillset, gives you a couple more rebounds at the point guard spot, and probably has the edge defensively.

[air gordon]

Ill take Pax. His shooting and steadiness would be needed more than Rose's ball stopping and ineffectiveness without the ball. Rose's %'s and overall efficiency are laughable to put it nicely. Other than being more athletic, Rose does not edge out Pax on defense. Taking into account health and salary, Its unfortunately not close

Prime Hinrich? Prime Gordon? What former Bulls guard would you rather have instead of Rose (not counting Jordan lol). Is the current Rose the 2nd best guard in the Bulls history??

[Andrew]

I think I'd have to take Prime Hinrich over Prime Gordon, since he's the better two way player. Or actually a two way player, as the case may be. He also managed to remain a solid player for a lot longer.

Second best guard in Bulls history...uh, can I cheat and say Scottie Pippen, since he was a swingman? I'm guessing not, so it's probably a battle between Rose, Butler, Gordon, Hinrich, Sloan, and Van Lier. I have a feeling Butler will end up with the distinction.

[Cpt(K)]

I would prefer Captain Kirk. Although I really appreciate Gordon's efforts on the offensive end of the ball, I think his defensive ability leaves much to be desired. Despite that I still remember the best of 7 series against Boston in 09.

[Moz]

i agree and i don't think the current roster suits Hoiberg's offense which is supposed to set up the offense early in the clock, empahsize ball movement, create open perimeter shooting. this Bulls team doesn't do that- Rose, Butler, and Gasol are ballstoppers and they don't have those perimeter shooting guys. when Rose does not have the ball, he is almost useless and teams are getting smart by helping off of him. the bulls are dreadfully near last on offense

Add the blackhole that is Taj to it... I reckon MDJ will be the game changer. The starters doesn't have McBuckets who can stretch out opponents' defense (nobody gives a fuck about Snell) and none of them encourages ball movement...

Quick game of "Would you rather"...

Would you rather have the current incarnation of rose?
Or
1990 John Paxson

Ok go....

The second three peat team is my introductory to the Jordan's Bulls so based on some footages I saw on TV replays and youtube, I'll pick DRose over Pax since, as Andrew stated, he's a capable go to guy... Paxson is indeed a great fit for the current Bulls but imagine if Rose was with Jordan and Pippen (and to some extent, Grant) at that time. I reckon he'll be not as injured as he is and will be the same explosive player he was for some time. Would they've won those 2 years with him and Pippen at the helm? Perhaps, but he's focused on investing in his son's future so probably he jumped ship already on another team before that time...

Prime Hinrich? Prime Gordon? What former Bulls guard would you rather have instead of Rose (not counting Jordan lol). Is the current Rose the 2nd best guard in the Bulls history??

I'm on the Captain Kirk team. I don't like Gordon's game... He's a ballhog streaky shooter who can't defend like hmmm... Jamal Crawford?

Other than Jordan? I'll go with Reggie Theus (just by looking at his numbers) I'll just not date his ex to get along with him...

[Andrew]

Does George Gervin count? I mean, he only played one season with the team and it was his final year, essentially a respectable but unspectacular retirement tour, but he is a Hall of Famer and a guard who played for the Bulls.

[air gordon]

It's hypocritical for the bulls management to say the roster is championship worthy when it doesnt even fit their hands picked coach's scheme

It's fun playing the hypothetical game...
Rose has never learned to play off the ball. Even under thibs. He would be a poor fit with the great 90's teams

We are talking about current Rose here. The skillet and his capabilities are not showing up in the stats

Imagine running pick and roll with butler and pau with Pax and Dougie on the wings and then on defense you can rely on Pax giving a good effort and making stops

Prime kirk would be awesome for this current bulls team. Even current kirk is doing well. His jersey may make it up to the rafters when he's done. His name is around or ahead of the bulls greats in a few of all time stats

Mr Bull Jerry Sloan or Bob Love for 2nd best bulls guard

[Andrew]

Bob Love? He's listed as a power forward and small forward.

How about Joakim Noah or Bill Cartwright? As a Part B, who has the uglier jumpshot? For that second question, you may want to flip a coin, and hope that it doesn't come down.

What would your all-time Bulls team look like? Assuming you had each player at their best. I'd probably go with...

C: Artis Gilmore
F: Dennis Rodman
F: Scottie Pippen
G: Michael Jordan
G: Derrick Rose

Bench:

Horace Grant (F)
Jerry Sloan (G)
Bob Love (F)
Kirk Hinrich (G)
Joakim Noah (C)
Jimmy Butler (G)
Toni Kukoc (F)

IR:

John Paxson (G)
B.J. Armstrong (G)
Norm Van Lier (G)

I'm tempted to put Gasol on there, but a year and counting probably isn't enough to qualify. Granted, Rodman only played three seasons with the team, but they were very significant seasons in which he played a major role.

[Moz]

What a game but they should've took advantage of the Pistons foul troubles (Drummond played with 5 fouls in almost 2 quarters...) and penalty situation in the 4th... Snell sucks disappointed that Hoiberg didn't gave McBuckets a second try in the closing minutes of regulation and in overtime... 30 over for DRose, Jimmy, and Pau first Bulls to do so since this:

phpBB [video]

Expect more minutes with the 2nd unit in the game against the Knicks.