Chicago Bulls Thread

[Valor]

It's not only the FA jackpot...FA is just one of the options Bulls have and only if they also let Luol go. Hell, even if you let him go, Bulls still wouldn't have enough to offer a max contract to any FA.

Getting rid of both Deng and Boozer will free up $30m in capspace...only Melo commands the max in the upcoming FA bidding wars anyways, and he ain't coming to Chi-town.
Also, please do enlighten me as to what "options" they have? Trying to get lucky with the pingpong balls and not choose a bust out of all these overhyped kids? Somehow get a wonderful deal with no assets to trade with?

so you'd be signing minimum players next to fill the roster

Thibs goes 7 or 8 deep anyways, what's the difference?

Everything plays out well but you'd be still counting on Rose coming back at a superstar level.
Your cap situation will still be the same and you cannot go after any free agent.

Is that such a hard thing to count on? The ACL and medial meniscus were freak injuries, again it's not like he has degenerative knees and is going under the knife for the 10th time. This is his second injury that needs surgery, he's 25 and a league MVP. I'll count on Derrick Rose being healthy than hoping to somehow lure a marquee FA to come without overpaying them like with Booze in 2010

but that's not enough to get a 2nd superstar.

Why's everyone acting like Lu is just a role player? He's a legit All Star and arguably a top 3 perimeter defender in the league with the ability to put up 20 a night.

Option a & b have another catch, it would put them over the tax level three years in a row and have them paying the repeater tax.

Let Booze go, trade down to the second round in the draft, sign minimum players to fill the roster and get under the tax?

[Andrew]

I don't think anyone's suggesting he's a role player, he's far better than that. At the same time, he's not a franchise player either and it's questionable as to whether he's a viable second option on a championship calibre team. As such, the question is whether the Bulls should be paying him like one.

[Mandich]

Deng is not a perennial All-star player, sorry. He is a very good defender, but is so overrated offensively. If I'm correct, he has been an All-star the last 2 seasons, shooting awfully from the field, and not being great from beyond the arc, playing some of the heaviest minutes in the NBA and yet being nowhere near "efficient".

To what he's proven so far is that he is a capable starter, nothing more. Bulls should get rid of him while he still has some value.

[Moz]

All the same though, if you want to win, you can't rely on the referees to make the right call. It sucks to have calls like that where it feels like there's an injustice, but there's also missed shots and defensive lapses throughout the game that all add up. We marvel at last second heroics and ideally you want the referees to get it right in crunch time of course, but to win games, you'd rather not let it come down to a final play or a correct whistle.

Yeh, I am aware that they've given a ton of second chance points to the Pelicans the whole game but that call cut the Bulls lead down to just 2 instead of them comfortably ahead by 4 with less than a minute remaining... well, perhaps I was carried away by my irritation (since as I've said I'm seeing it in a lot of games nowadays) and I never stated the other factors of why they lose that game... nonetheless I still believe that the league should take actions on this matter since it's somewhat making their regulations dodgy...

[Andrew]

Oh I completely understand where you're coming from and stuff like that bugs me too. I guess I'm at the point where I'm trying to be philosophical about it, as the league doesn't seem to be that interested in cleaning up what needs to be cleaned up as far as the officiating is concerned.

[erudain]

gotta love staying up until 3:22am just to watch that....my boss is "oh so happy" today.
Couple thoughts.
- if Taj keeps playinng the same way, we might have a 6th man of the year prospect.
- Snell with a solid game, should had been out there late instead of Dunleavy.
- As much as dunleavy gave us on the offensive end, he gave up on D...the shadows from the guys sitting at first row defended better than him.
- Bad execution late, we had 3 attempts to go got the win eith less than 5secs and we pulled weird plays when there was not enough time.
- That last layup...I sounded like Consuela from Family Guy "no, no, no....no"....what a brain freeze, kinda reminded me of CJ Watson.

Oh well, time to make some coffee, still have long hours of work left.

Erudain

Edit: @ Valor, if Bulls amnesty Boozer and let Luol, kirk and Mike James go, they'll have $47,807,661 in 8 commited contracts for next year, a couple thousand less if they also let Murphy go...that's around 11-12m under the cap.
Of those 11-12m you will get:
- 1 or 2 1st round drafts picks if the Bobcats make the playoff. 1st round picks are guaranteed....and no, you don't trade down to the 2nd round in the best draft in 15 years. You can get a great player or a steal which also is cheap for 3 years.
- You have to complete the roster, you need 13 players minimun.

Even if you don't extend Jimmy, those 2 items alone, even signing veteran minimuns, or taking undrafted rookies will take you at least 2m from the cap.you'd have 9m to offer a FA...not a max contract.

[NovU]

He has not been the same since Rose got hurt. It looks like he doesn't feel like playing anymore. I can't blame him, I don't feel like watching anymore.

I lol-ed. But come on man, at least the Bulls are still a playoffs team. Lots of teams want to get there.

Anyway, it makes me wonder if the Bulls have intention to reduce Boozer's role/minutes so they can amnesty him while developed Taj Gibson starts to take over from next season. Taj's contract is bit friendlier and runs long till 16/17 season too.

Edit: @ Valor, if Bulls amnesty Boozer and let Luol, kirk and Mike James go, they'll have $47,807,661 in 8 commited contracts for next year, a couple thousand less if they also let Murphy go...that's around 11-12m under the cap.

I don't think this is a bad idea at all. I actually think the Bulls might pull that off. Amnestying Boozer is always an idea you could flirt with CBA in full effect. Letting Kirk, and Mike James walk is no brainer. Allowing Luol to test Free Agency isn't too shabby and is better than overpaying for his service. And the Bulls still get to keep quite a decent core in Noah, Jimmy, Taj, and Rose. Probably can add a new piece to the core with all that new money. They don't even have to throw away a season in case Rose get his MVP form back.

[erudain]

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-ass ... nergy.html

See you soon kid, don't let the door hit you on your way out...I don't like ass prints on Berto Centers' doors

[Valor]

As much as dunleavy gave us on the offensive end, he gave up on D...the shadows from the guys sitting at first row defended better than him.

That's exactly why they shouldn't have replaced Belinelli with Dunleavy

if Bulls amnesty Boozer and let Luol, kirk and Mike James go, they'll have $47,807,661 in 8 commited contracts for next year, a couple thousand less if they also let Murphy go...that's around 11-12m under the cap.
Of those 11-12m you will get:
- 1 or 2 1st round drafts picks if the Bobcats make the playoff. 1st round picks are guaranteed....and no, you don't trade down to the 2nd round in the best draft in 15 years. You can get a great player or a steal which also is cheap for 3 years.
- You have to complete the roster, you need 13 players minimun.

Even if you don't extend Jimmy, those 2 items alone, even signing veteran minimuns, or taking undrafted rookies will take you at least 2m from the cap.you'd have 9m to offer a FA...not a max contract.

Resigning their own guys enable them to go over the cap, they can resign Deng to a 9-11 mill deal if he agrees, extend Jimmy, trade down to non-guaranteed second round picks and fill the roster with minimum contracts. Otherwise they can use the Charlotte pick and package it with Lu or Taj for a few good players.

Not sure about cap rules concerning guys they have draft rights (Mirotic) to, anyone care to shed the light on that? Is it possible to sign them when you're over the cap?

Deng is not a perennial All-star player, sorry. He is a very good defender, but is so overrated offensively. If I'm correct, he has been an All-star the last 2 seasons, shooting awfully from the field, and not being great from beyond the arc, playing some of the heaviest minutes in the NBA and yet being nowhere near "efficient".

To what he's proven so far is that he is a capable starter, nothing more. Bulls should get rid of him while he still has some value.

He's shooting 46% from the field averaging 19 so far this year. Sure he can't create his own shot, but he can definitely score and his rebounding is above average for SFs. That very good defense is also why he plays about 40 minutes a night for Thibs. Tell me which other player who is "just a capable starter" can do the things he does? All-Stars are not just guys who can score and get on highlight reels, contrary to what kids nowadays think.

[Andrew]

$9-11 million wouldn't be too bad for Deng. I have a feeling he'll pursue $14-15 million though.

[Mandich]

Deng is not a perennial All-star player, sorry. He is a very good defender, but is so overrated offensively. If I'm correct, he has been an All-star the last 2 seasons, shooting awfully from the field, and not being great from beyond the arc, playing some of the heaviest minutes in the NBA and yet being nowhere near "efficient".

To what he's proven so far is that he is a capable starter, nothing more. Bulls should get rid of him while he still has some value.

He's shooting 46% from the field averaging 19 so far this year. Sure he can't create his own shot, but he can definitely score and his rebounding is above average for SFs. That very good defense is also why he plays about 40 minutes a night for Thibs. Tell me which other player who is "just a capable starter" can do the things he does? All-Stars are not just guys who can score and get on highlight reels, contrary to what kids nowadays think.[/quote]

I don't think scoring grants you All-star appearances, quite the contrary. Deng is having a good "season". I don't think the Bulls even played 20 games this year. I don't believe that he can keep this numbers, but hey, I'll eat my words if he does.

Also, you forgot to mention Derrick Rose was a big reason he made the All-star team. Not that he improved Dengs numbers, but improved the team record and Dengs reputation.

Let me see which players do the things "he" does and aren't in the all-star team (just out of the top of my head)

Nicolas Batum
Trevor Ariza
Wilson Chandler
Shawn Marion
Chandler Parsons
Thabo Sefolosha
Iman Shumpert

Now I am not saying any of the players are better than Deng, I am just saying the can do the same things as him, and just compare their minutes.

[Valor]

I don't think scoring grants you All-star appearances, quite the contrary. Deng is having a good "season". I don't think the Bulls even played 20 games this year. I don't believe that he can keep this numbers, but hey, I'll eat my words if he does.

No, but making highlight reels do, as evident by Blake Griffin being in the All Star game since his rookie season.

Also, you forgot to mention Derrick Rose was a big reason he made the All-star team. Not that he improved Dengs numbers, but improved the team record and Dengs reputation.

I would mention it if Deng didn't make the All Star team last season without Derrick Rose. He wasn't good enough the first few seasons to make it.

Let me see which players do the things "he" does and aren't in the all-star team (just out of the top of my head)

Nicolas Batum
Trevor Ariza
Wilson Chandler
Shawn Marion
Chandler Parsons
Thabo Sefolosha
Iman Shumpert

Now I am not saying any of the players are better than Deng, I am just saying the can do the same things as him, and just compare their minutes.

Batum, Chandler, Ariza yes, others no. Marion can't score as much as Deng and isn't as good of a passer, Parsons can't play D to save his life and is a ballhog this year, Sefolosha has no offense and neither has Shumpert, who is still very raw.

Also, how on earth are you going to get these guys to replace Deng? Batum is still on contract with Portland through 2016 and is owed just under 12 million per. Parson's getting a big payday after his current rookie deal finishes. Ariza is a FA and is getting under 8 mill now, probably a payrise coming soon given how good he's been for the Wizards this season. Marion's retiring soon, Chandler's signed through 2016 with about 7m per on his deal. It's not like any of these guys are much cheaper than Deng. Even via trade, who do the Bulls have to trade with?

[erudain]

trolololololol according to Chicago Tribune

"Teague is on his way back to Chicago to return to the team due to injury to Mike James after MRI results showed James suffered a sprained MCL in his knee. Teague is due back in practice tomorrow morning."

I'm sure he will put his heart into his play knowing thibs hates him.
Seriously..it.sounds like an old simpsons joke

Erudain

[shadowgrin]

Y u no like Marq Teague.

[Mandich]

I'm not trying to be a Deng hater or anything, just saying the Bulls won't win if they really so heavily on hom(they did that even with Rose in the lineup)

[Valor]

I'm not trying to be a Deng hater or anything, just saying the Bulls won't win if they really so heavily on hom(they did that even with Rose in the lineup)

You mean from this season's small sample size with Rose really rusty before coming down with the meniscus? You are forgetting when everyone's somewhat healthy the Bulls plus/minus some role players (obviously replacing Bellineli with someone as useless as Dunleavy wasn't going to help) they had the best record in the league for consecutive seasons right? Keith Bogans was starting at the 2 and they went to the conference finals, I don't see how with Butler instead and better role players they can't do that or more.

You talk about the Eastern Conference, everybody loves Paul George these days right? Lu killed him last time they played on both ends of the floor, and it's not like it's a one game fluke either. He consistently outplays the opponent's "stars" but nobody seems to notice. Lu plays Lebron just about as good as anybody can in the NBA. Last season Lebron was a -7.7 when matched up against Lu, shoots three less shots than average and just 22% from three while having more than two less assists. It's not a coincidence. Deng is more valuable than you all think he is.

[Mandich]

Bulls figured the league system that year. (And I wasn't reffering to this year but to Roses MVP season)

LeBron fared well against Deng in the their last 11 meetings, I don't know where you got the -7.7

Bu LeBron scored more than 20 in all 11 of their Meettings, scored more than 25 in 8/11

Got 5 or more assist in 7/11
5 or more rebounds in 9/11

Is considerably better in the playoffs, so I don't really see where he stopped him ?

Oh, also, in their 31 overall vs. matchups, look at the stats:

LeFlop: 30.1 ppg, 5.9 apg, 7.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 498 fg% (also to note 10 FT att. per game, and 4 minutes more per game)
Luol: 14.6 ppg, 2.3 apg, 5.3 rpg, 0.9 spg, 443 fg%

Deng plays good defense on Anthony (altough Anthony scores much against him, he is inefficient)
While Durant just destroys him.

[Valor]

Bulls figured the league system that year. (And I wasn't reffering to this year but to Roses MVP season)

LeBron fared well against Deng in the their last 11 meetings, I don't know where you got the -7.7

Bu LeBron scored more than 20 in all 11 of their Meettings, scored more than 25 in 8/11

Got 5 or more assist in 7/11
5 or more rebounds in 9/11

Is considerably better in the playoffs, so I don't really see where he stopped him ?

Oh, also, in their 31 overall vs. matchups, look at the stats:

LeFlop: 30.1 ppg, 5.9 apg, 7.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 498 fg% (also to note 10 FT att. per game, and 4 minutes more per game)
Luol: 14.6 ppg, 2.3 apg, 5.3 rpg, 0.9 spg, 443 fg%

Deng plays good defense on Anthony (altough Anthony scores much against him, he is inefficient)
While Durant just destroys him.

NBA StatsCube player comparison, and those stats you are using are the overall game stats, I'm talking about when they are actually playing against each other.

How does Durant destroy him? Last season head to head Durant had just 21.6 points per 36, with 17% from three and just getting 2.2 FTA per 36. He also had less than 4 assists. If anything, Deng defends Durant better than LeBron, who is just too strong to be shut down, although Deng does a decent job forcing him to take outside jumpers and giving a good contest.

[Mandich]

They meet 2 times a year, last year Durant had 16 boards against him in a game. I admit Luol did a good job last year, EDIT:,but wasn't nearly as good the previous years.

And just to be noted, Butler defendede Lebron a lot more than Deng did last year

[Valor]

They meet 2 times a year, last year Durant had 16 boards against him in a game. I admit Luol did a good job last year, EDIT:,but wasn't nearly as good the previous years.

And just to be noted, Butler defendede Lebron a lot more than Deng did last year

You really dislike Deng don't you? Yes Durant got a lot of rebounds with Lu on him last year, but at the end of the day he held one of the best scorers in the game to subpar scoring performances, so I'd say he's done his job.

Jimmy did defend Lebron quite a bit, and I'm glad you brought that up, because he is another one that can slow down guys like Lebron and Kobe and Durant and Melo, but Jimmy's not strong enough to defend them in the post. Sure he can maybe take on Durant with his length, but against the other three, especially Melo and LeBron? You need a guy like Luol Deng who can pretty much defend 3-4 positions with size, length, quickness, and strength.

also...

Bulls figured the league system that year.

What does this even mean? Please do elaborate on how you are going to discredit their 62 win season.

[Mandich]

In every sport, not just in basketball, there are teams fair well in the league system(regular season) but cant win the title.

Jimmy is going to get stronger and has great potential as a defender.

I don't dislike Deng, he is a solid player, solid defender, not ELITE level or not that valuable for the Bulls to keep him, that's my whole point. I get that as a Bulls fan you like him because of his loyalty and hard working style of play. Also to note, Jimmy defended both Durant and Anthony more than Deng last year, only star player exception being Paul Pierce(defended by Deng)

[NovU]

You really dislike Deng don't you? Yes Durant got a lot of rebounds with Lu on him last year, but at the end of the day he held one of the best scorers in the game to subpar scoring performances, so I'd say he's done his job.

Nobody's disliking Deng that much. You're just liking him way too much. Even if we go by your logic, the Bulls were better off defensively without Deng on the floor last season, giving up 1.7 points less per 100 possessions. And it's not only Deng or Jimmy that's done their job. I know, you don't really believe in team defense system than man-to-man D but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzWRree2YlQ

Both the Pacers and Bulls did a nice job against LeBrick mostly because Noah and Hibbert are exceptional defensive anchors and both do great job on rotating for lapses, not allowing easy inside baskets which LeBrick/Wade love to do. Afaik the Bulls gave up more side lanes with Noah waiting inside to challenge the drive while the Pacers gave up more mid lane while Hibbert was there to redirect the attack.

[Valor]

In every sport, not just in basketball, there are teams fair well in the league system(regular season) but cant win the title.

Jimmy is going to get stronger and has great potential as a defender.

I don't dislike Deng, he is a solid player, solid defender, not ELITE level or not that valuable for the Bulls to keep him, that's my whole point. I get that as a Bulls fan you like him because of his loyalty and hard working style of play. Also to note, Jimmy defended both Durant and Anthony more than Deng last year, only star player exception being Paul Pierce(defended by Deng)

Well we all know what was the issue with the Bulls in 2011, they didn't have another guy who could create his own shot, and so Miami went at Rose with double, triple, quadruple, and quintuple teams all series long.

Yes Jimmy is going to get stronger and even better defensively, and that's exactly why you really want to keep Deng, hopefully at a more reasonable price range (whether they can do that or not remains to be seen, largely will be how well they can sell the idea of taking a hometown discount to stay and continue to work towards a championship to him) because with a Butler-Deng wing, the Bulls will be perfectly able to shut down or at least slow the heck out of opposing stars. You take one away, and Chicago will be left with the same problem as before, finding a solid wing to replace the ones that were let go.

I still cant believe they chose Dunleavy over Belinelli, Marco can actually create off the dribble, pass and play defense, what on earth does Gar Forman smoke in his office?


I'm just going to ignore that guy who claims I know nothing about defenses. The Bulls system overloads the strong side, stacks the paint, and runs people off the three point line to force contested long 2-pointers. Good defensive wings like Deng and Butler are needed for this. Haters gonna be haters, what a joke.

[_Steve_]

I'd stick with Deng for around 10 million if possible. As Valor said, Deng's lenght, long arms and strenght give him an edge over Buttler when it goes against KD, 'Melo, LeBron or Paul George. He's also a pain in the ass for guys like Parsons etc. Considering how many good/elite players the NBA has playing the 3 right now, you have to have guys like Deng to compete for a title. The only guys I'd give him away for are Kawhi Leonard or Nicolas Batum and that won't happen...

[shadowgrin]

I still cant believe they chose Dunleavy over Belinelli, Marco can actually create off the dribble, pass and play defense, what on earth does Gar Forman smoke in his office?

The Bulls didn't choose Dunleavy over Belinelli. Belinelli didn't want to stay with the Bulls.
iirc Belinelli signed with the Spurs for a lower salary instead of taking what was offered to him by the Bulls, which is the same amount offered to Dunleavy.