Chicago Bulls Thread

[air gordon]

haven't seen the last 2 game but i'm blaming the losses on Bogans anyway

Mayo's price tag may have just dropped.... but who needs that kind of distraction?

I think that James Johnson would be interesting to see, mainly because I get turned on by really big backcourts. And they may as well give him a chance to do something, anything, before they don't bother picking up his option.

But yeah, looked like an ugly-ass game against Jersey, with Bogans really the only one playing up to expectations.

i'm perplexed as to why Bulls fans here are content with Bogans in the lineup. it's not the same situation but it's worth mentioning that you can bring Gordon off the bench because Duhon could play elite defense, make 3pters, and share PG-duties... Bogans does not possess any of those skills!

C'mon- the guy is now passing up open shots. With Ol' Crazy Eyes in the lineup, it's now 3 vs 5 on offense. last nite those 2 combined for 0pts in 36 minutes. 0 fucking points. Deng-Boozer-Rose combine for 80pts and we still lose!

Why is Bogans out there? i'm not going to look at stats but i'm guessing that Bogans has the worst PER for any starting SG and maybe perharps the worst starter in the NBA right now. If you told Bogans he'd get 3pts for every rebound he would get, he'd stop rebounding too. utterly useless.

if not James Johnson (or even Korver, Brewer, Watson.. shit even Scal) there's gotta be someone out in the D-league who can hit a 3pt shot and play average defense

2 losses in a row vs the heat and spurs is fine. not 2 against the nets & sixers. deserves a tirade. Where the hell is Pax? He needs to start a fight with Thibbs like he did Del Negro last year if Thibbs continues to start bogans

[puttincomputers]

they could sign me! All i can do is hit threes and play average defense. The further away I am, the better I shoot. jk

[The X]

Just taking a look through Bogans' last five games:

Bulls +11 vs Celtics; Bogans -14 vs Boston (+25 with Bogans off floor)
Bulls -6 vs 76ers; Bogans -7 vs 76ers (+1 with Bogans off floor)
Bulls -2 vs Nets; Bogans -14 vs Nets (+12 with Bogans off floor)
Bulls +20 vs Raptors; Bogans -3 vs Raptors (+23 with Bogans off floor)
Bulls +9 vs Cavs; Bogans +17 vs Cavs (-8 with Bogans off floor)

I know +/- stats aren't the be all & end all & they can be skewed, but still

[deihatein]

Nice win against Boston. . Loving the Bulls so far.

[Lamrock]

19 free throw attempts. Finally starting to live up to those Wade comparisons.

[Andrew]

Eleven point win over the Celtics after losing to the Nets and Sixers; go figure. Nice way to salvage the week, good to see Rose getting to the free throw line for 19 attempts.

As far as Bogans starting is concerned, I won't be at all heartbroken to see him lose the job and if the aim is to keep Brewer on the bench to strengthen the second unit, by all means try starting Johnson or Korver in Bogans' place. I was thinking along the lines of it not mattering who started the game as much as who ultimately got the minutes and who finished the game, but he continues to bring nothing to the table so yeah, make the change.

[shadowgrin]

19 free throw attempts. Finally starting to live up to those Wade comparisons.

Nevar! If he starts flopping like Wade when going to the basket, then maybe...

[Mandich]

Nevar! If he starts flopping like Wade when going to the basket, then maybe...

Will never forget Wade's circus shot against the Bobcats a few years back.

On topic , BUlls won against Celtics , lost against Sixers and Nets , a little strange ?

[Dan's Brain]

My point about Bogans playing up to expectations in the New Jersey game, is that he was the only guy on the team who did play to our expectations of him, i.e. nothing at all.

I guess what I was trying to say about him is that it honestly doesn't matter whether he starts or not. He's not going to do anything, either way. And the team was winning up until 4 days ago, when they lost a couple of stinkers against the Nets and Sixers. I'm a believer in not fucking things around until circumstance dictates that you should (injuries, retirements, catastrophic losses, swine flu). Do the Nets & Sixers losses count as catastrophic? Not really. Because they were followed up by a win against the Celtics. Against the Sixers, only the top 3 guys (Rose, Boozer, Deng) played well. Against the Nets, nobody played well. What I get from that is an issue of consistency or depth. Depth problems are easy enough to diagnose, and theoretically easy enough to fix. There is no quick fix solution when it comes to consistency, though. Final sentence: the team's problems don't begin and end with Keith Bogans.

[Andrew]

That was pretty much my train of thought too but considering that he continues to do nothing, it might be time for a demotion. With any luck, it'd mean getting more out of someone else.

[air gordon]

My point about Bogans playing up to expectations in the New Jersey game, is that he was the only guy on the team who did play to our expectations of him, i.e. nothing at all.

I guess what I was trying to say about him is that it honestly doesn't matter whether he starts or not. He's not going to do anything, either way. And the team was winning up until 4 days ago, when they lost a couple of stinkers against the Nets and Sixers. I'm a believer in not fucking things around until circumstance dictates that you should (injuries, retirements, catastrophic losses, swine flu). Do the Nets & Sixers losses count as catastrophic? Not really. Because they were followed up by a win against the Celtics. Against the Sixers, only the top 3 guys (Rose, Boozer, Deng) played well. Against the Nets, nobody played well. What I get from that is an issue of consistency or depth. Depth problems are easy enough to diagnose, and theoretically easy enough to fix. There is no quick fix solution when it comes to consistency, though. Final sentence: the team's problems don't begin and end with Keith Bogans.

interesting points there.

i agree Bogans is not the main problem but he is part of it. and you can easily get rid of the problem by benching him or even waiving him

you have to take him out for 2 reasons:
-he is a burden to the team. you guys want to point to the 24-12 record but too many of those wins are close games. as i mentioned earlier, the offense would be much stronger with a competent player in there. better starts. bigger leads. rest the starters. don't run them into the ground before the playoffs.

-coach thibb's credibility with the players. if he benches boozer an entire 4th quarter for not playing defense, he puts & keeps James Johnson in the doghouse...then he has to be consistent and bench Bogans for being a worthless piece of shit. The starters won't admit it publicly but they have to be losing confidence in Bogans, who has lost confidence in himself once the preseason ended.

if i'm not mistaken, Bogans has the worst PER EVER for a starting player. case closed

[Andrew]

So let's say Bogans is demoted, who do you give the starting nod to? On one hand I like the idea of having Korver come off the bench and providing a scoring punch for the second unit, but I've got more confidence in him than Johnson at this time so I'd have to go with Korver taking Bogans' place.

[Lean]

I'd go with Korver and have him rotate with the bench as well.

[Dan's Brain]

-coach thibb's credibility with the players. if he benches boozer an entire 4th quarter for not playing defense, he puts & keeps James Johnson in the doghouse...then he has to be consistent and bench Bogans for being a worthless piece of shit. The starters won't admit it publicly but they have to be losing confidence in Bogans, who has lost confidence in himself once the preseason ended.

Fair enough. This is a really good point. I dont think Thibs has really defined his defensive expectations of these guys. And with their defensive leader being out at the moment, then the other guys have got to work twice as hard to cover the chasm that Noah's absence has created. It's a shame that Boozer and Noah havent really had the chance to play together yet, because I think that would really help Booz defensively. Not only because his deficiencies wouldnt be as exposed with Noah there. But he would also feel compelled to work harder when there's a guy standing next to him who is just relentless.

Which leads seamlessly into the idea of who should be starting at the 2. I think that they do need a defensive workhorse somewhere on the court at the beginning of games, and that Brewer fits the need well, ala Thabo with the Thunder (there's an annoying bit of irony). You dont lose a whole heap of offense from the bench with Brewer starting, because he doesn't provide a heap. He gives you something, just not much. If he was a better free throw shooter, then there wouldn't even be a debate about whether he should be starting. Leave Korver on the bench, but increase his minutes a bit, and continue to use him as a 4th quarter or comeback specialist.

Even play Rose and Watson together more and run, run, run.

[shadowgrin]

if i'm not mistaken, Bogans has the worst PER EVER for a starting player. case closed

For this season, yes.
As for 'ever' currently, that belongs to Jason Collins (NJN).

[George7]

In my opinion , Watson at the 2 will be a nice idea and possibly the best fit for the starting spot. They get another quick player,who can dictate better the offence on some special occasions and can defend well. This should give an extra freshness to the squad providing the possibility for a strong start, a thing Bulls' game lacks so far. There are many occasions Bulls had a big loss from the start and made the comeback. Most of them,it was with worse teams and they could win,but other either the opponent was too strong or the time wasn't enough in order to come back.

What would be the best though ,is making a trade and getting a solid sg. Even an aging veteran would be great. I'd love to get T-Mac for example. He's getting back on shape and would provide quality on Bulls worse spot currently(Brewer,Bogans and Lucas are not considered quality options. Only Brewer comes up somewhat important,just needs to be more completed)

Btw,how many years Kirk has on wizards before being Free Agent? He would be a great option with less salary.

[Andrew]

Btw,how many years Kirk has on wizards before being Free Agent? He would be a great option with less salary.

He'll be a free agent after next season.

[air gordon]

So let's say Bogans is demoted, who do you give the starting nod to? On one hand I like the idea of having Korver come off the bench and providing a scoring punch for the second unit, but I've got more confidence in him than Johnson at this time so I'd have to go with Korver taking Bogans' place.

i'm undecided. i'll be happy just getting Bogans out of there...

i think Brewer has earned it & has probably the best rapport with the starters. Korver's shooting is a better fit. just too bad he's limited defensively. maybe just base who gets more minutes based on the matchups??

Leave Korver on the bench, but increase his minutes a bit, and continue to use him as a 4th quarter or comeback specialist.

Even play Rose and Watson together more and run, run, run.

yeh i'm on board with Korver getting more minutes. Shooters needs shots/minutes to get in rhythm. cut Bogans and split his minutes between Brewer & Korver. oh thabo...

In my opinion , Watson at the 2 will be a nice idea and possibly the best fit for the starting spot. They get another quick player,who can dictate better the offence on some special occasions and can defend well.

yeh i agree they should be giving more minutes to this backcourt. if the matchups allow it: Rose-Watson-Brewer as the pg/sg/sf. besides- Deng is averaging a whopping 39mpg. i don't know if he has incentive clauses in his contract or what, but Thibbs needs to cut his minutes

bulls can't trade for hinrich this year just as fyi

if i'm not mistaken, Bogans has the worst PER EVER for a starting player. case closed

For this season, yes.
As for 'ever' currently, that belongs to Jason Collins (NJN).

so i guess that means that the Bulls are making the finals

[Andrew]

Yeah Brewer's obviously another option, I didn't mean to rule him out. I was thinking of options that would keep him in the second unit but like you say, he's earned the opportunity and while he doesn't have an outside shot, I'd say he's competent enough offensively. I'd also wholeheartedly agree with cutting Bogans' minutes and splitting them between Brewer and Korver, regardless of who gets the starting job.

Sounds like a dismal first half against the Pistons but thankfully they made the comeback to pick up the win. And from the dunk thread, I see Rose had an awesome dunk.

[air gordon]

Thomas & Bogans. 3pts between them. Thibbs went with a 7 man rotation 2nd half

the Rose dunk. pretty sick

[Andrew]

Another disappointing road loss and tough night for Rose from the field. Looks like Boozer, Deng and Thomas all did alright out there, while Bogans was Bogans.

[Dan's Brain]

Tyrus Thomas looked like he had a point to prove.

Where were those performances 2 years ago?

[Andrew]

I guess some players just need that chip on their shoulder or a simply a change of scene to light the fire. Tyson Chandler's first couple of seasons in New Orleans arguably are an example of that.

[The X]

Tyrus Thomas looked like he had a point to prove.

Where were those performances 2 years ago?

Different coach, different system, different cast around him.

[puttincomputers]

I never did understand why everyone hated ty thomas! I thought he brought great energy.