Spirit of '99: 2011 Lockout Discussion

[benji]

Sucks. Are they at least negotiating in good faith for the long term success?

lol no.

They're trying to put together a patchwork that lasts until the TV deal ends, then we get to have some real fun!

I'm swinging back from owner's camp to player's camp based on what I'm reading. If NBA is getting system concessions & able to get the BRI down to 48-52 (owners-players) split, make the damn deal. If Stern really dropped his offer back to 53-47 in favour of owners after previously going to 50-50, no wonder the talks broke down. Even if they went back to 50-50.

The owners are just toying with the players because the union has no clue what the fuck it is doing.

The owners offered 53% months ago, said, let's make these changes we agree on, we bump you down to 53% and we deal with this again with the new TV deal. The players said no, we want 57+% and then KG and co came in and ended the deal.

I'm pretty sure that whatever they agreed to Thursday night, Hunter went to the players and something like the KG intervention occurred and it fell apart.

Anything the owners get improves their situation, that's why they can let the union kill itself again. The union's already fighting on the owners turf.

[Andrew]

I'm still in lack of information concerning the "system issues". When it comes to that topic it's getting diffuse.

Basically, it comes down to instituting a hard cap (or a system that would essentially achieve the same thing), as well as changes to maximum contract lengths, etc.

[_Steve_]

I'm still in lack of information concerning the "system issues". When it comes to that topic it's getting diffuse.

Basically, it comes down to instituting a hard cap (or a system that would essentially achieve the same thing), as well as changes to maximum contract lengths, etc.

Yeah that's the topics but which are the actual individual standpoints?
Some weeks ago it was more or less transparent what the arguing was all about (e.g. how to split the BRI).
Now I can say, that I do not know any longer which are unions and leagues standpoints on the topics and which is the most important one by now...

[Jhiane]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... t_Complete

is this the sign of the end?

[kAmilli LakeShow]

LOL, posted about this on NBA 2k12 thread, my bad Anyways, i was and will be in owner's camp. At least after Cuban got his word in there. Oh hell will break loose after TV Deal ends...

[Andrew]

On one hand, it is encouraging. It suggests they're not as far apart as it would appear on the whole and that there's really only one big issue dividing them, that being BRI. However, given the determination on both sides not to budge on their supposed final offer, as this blog notes it really doesn't matter whether it's 95% done, 99% done or whatever; it's not done and won't be done until they can resolve the issue of BRI.

Encouraging in its own way, but still a case of "so close, but yet so far". Kind of a tease.

Yeah that's the topics but which are the actual individual standpoints?

Owners are pushing for a hard cap, players are against it (especially if they're making concessions on BRI). Players don't want contracts to be shortened because it means less guaranteed money, owners wanted shorter contracts so they don't get saddled with bad ones for longer. Of course, some of those stances may have softened in light of the deal being "95% done".

[Mavs4Life]

Hopefully the deal will get done this week. We must hope!

[KOBE23]

This lockout needs to end now...

[shadowgrin]

No. I want it to erase the season.

The most outspoken players against 50/50 are KG and Chris Paul. Is it me, or KG and Paul just keep finding ways to lose their hard-earned respect? At least KG for sure.

Explain why is that?

[Andrew]

[kAmilli LakeShow]

No. I want it to erase the season.

The most outspoken players against 50/50 are KG and Chris Paul. Is it me, or KG and Paul just keep finding ways to lose their hard-earned respect? At least KG for sure.

Explain why is that?

Well, ever since KG moved to Boston, and he has been gettin much more TV time, we started seeing how dirty and sometimes just totally unprofessional he plays. Players and owners were reportedly very close to a deal about a week ago, until KG started acting like a child and stormed out of the negotiation room. After that, the talks got very tense and no deal was made. Chris Paul is really a cool guy, but i still remember the way he acted in the beginning of last season, just like Melo. Then, of course, he decided that he is gonna play ball in New Orleans until the end of the season, and i respect that a lot. However, he is also reportedly one of the players who sabotages the talks

[shadowgrin]

Chris Paul is really a cool guy, but i still remember the way he acted in the beginning of last season, just like Melo. Then, of course, he decided that he is gonna play ball in New Orleans until the end of the season, and i respect that a lot.

Well, ever since KG moved to Boston, and he has been gettin much more TV time, we started seeing how dirty and sometimes just totally unprofessional he plays.

KG has been a 'jerk' since he was with the Timberwolves. The media attention he got in Boston only showed what he has been doing for years before he went to the Celtics. And what do those things I quoted have to do with them losing 'your respect' in what they're doing to the CBA negotiations?..

This?...

Players and owners were reportedly very close to a deal about a week ago, until KG started acting like a child and stormed out of the negotiation room. After that, the talks got very tense and no deal was made.

However, he (Chris Paul) is also reportedly one of the players who sabotages the talks

...that?
Proof. Or ban.

[_Steve_]

Nice one!

[kAmilli LakeShow]

Chris Paul is really a cool guy, but i still remember the way he acted in the beginning of last season, just like Melo. Then, of course, he decided that he is gonna play ball in New Orleans until the end of the season, and i respect that a lot.

Well, ever since KG moved to Boston, and he has been gettin much more TV time, we started seeing how dirty and sometimes just totally unprofessional he plays.

KG has been a 'jerk' since he was with the Timberwolves. The media attention he got in Boston only showed what he has been doing for years before he went to the Celtics. And what do those things I quoted have to do with them losing 'your respect' in what they're doing to the CBA negotiations?..

This?...

Players and owners were reportedly very close to a deal about a week ago, until KG started acting like a child and stormed out of the negotiation room. After that, the talks got very tense and no deal was made.

However, he (Chris Paul) is also reportedly one of the players who sabotages the talks

...that?
Proof. Or ban.

haha, i am serious, i read that on russian basketball portal Slamdunk.ru, pretty much best basketball site in Russian. I found something similar to what i read there in English : "There was a knock on the door where Stern was selling his owners on the idea of a 50/50 split. The players wanted to talk.

When they convened, instead of the union’s head, Hunter, or their negotiating committee of Maurice Evans, Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas and Chris Paul, representing the players were Fisher, Kessler, and three superstars who had been to very few of the meetings at all: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant.

The players had two pieces of news that shocked the league: 50/50 was not good enough. And there was nothing further to discuss." http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/artic ... ns/7486036

What i read on Slamdunk.ru was that instead of Kobe is was Chris Paul, i don't know what to believe now XD It also is contrary to another piece of news that Kobe was the one who actually convinced Fisher for 50/50, and Kobe has been pretty vocal about his views all along, siding with owners.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/33003185

[benji]

I posted it on the last page as well: viewtopic.php?p=1435817#p1435817

[shadowgrin]

Chris Paul is really a cool guy, but i still remember the way he acted in the beginning of last season, just like Melo. Then, of course, he decided that he is gonna play ball in New Orleans until the end of the season, and i respect that a lot.

Well, ever since KG moved to Boston, and he has been gettin much more TV time, we started seeing how dirty and sometimes just totally unprofessional he plays.

KG has been a 'jerk' since he was with the Timberwolves. The media attention he got in Boston only showed what he has been doing for years before he went to the Celtics. And what do those things I quoted have to do with them losing 'your respect' in what they're doing to the CBA negotiations?..

This?...

Players and owners were reportedly very close to a deal about a week ago, until KG started acting like a child and stormed out of the negotiation room. After that, the talks got very tense and no deal was made.

However, he (Chris Paul) is also reportedly one of the players who sabotages the talks

...that?
Proof. Or ban.

haha, i am serious, i read that on russian basketball portal Slamdunk.ru, pretty much best basketball site in Russian. I found something similar to what i read there in English : "There was a knock on the door where Stern was selling his owners on the idea of a 50/50 split. The players wanted to talk.

When they convened, instead of the union’s head, Hunter, or their negotiating committee of Maurice Evans, Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas and Chris Paul, representing the players were Fisher, Kessler, and three superstars who had been to very few of the meetings at all: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant.

The players had two pieces of news that shocked the league: 50/50 was not good enough. And there was nothing further to discuss." http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/artic ... ns/7486036

What i read on Slamdunk.ru was that instead of Kobe is was Chris Paul, i don't know what to believe now XD It also is contrary to another piece of news that Kobe was the one who actually convinced Fisher for 50/50, and Kobe has been pretty vocal about his views all along, siding with owners.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/33003185

Why only blame KG for it? You might as well blame Fisher, Pierce, and that Kessler guy. You make it as if KG was the only complete asshat out of the whole players union that wrecked the deal.
As for Chris Paul, why would you believe a Russian website? That's as dependable as buying an external hard drive in a computer shop in China.

[kAmilli LakeShow]

I posted it on the last page as well: viewtopic.php?p=1435817#p1435817

Sorry then, skipped to the last page like a noob, not my day

[kAmilli LakeShow]

Why only blame KG for it? You might as well blame Fisher, Pierce, and that Kessler guy. You make it as if KG was the only complete asshat out of the whole players union that wrecked the deal.
As for Chris Paul, why would you believe a Russian website? That's as dependable as buying an external hard drive in a computer shop in China.

LMFAO, Russian website doesn't take the news from their ass, they quoted an article that i can't find right now, that's all XD
EDIT : And yeah, i finally found an article that they quoted. check it out and tell me it don't make you lose some respect for KG (if u had any) : http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... tered_Room

He literally said KG F-ed everything up, haha, now that's Attack Mode :

This fight has grown nastier, more personal, in the past weeks. Privately, management insists that everything changed when the Boston Celtics’ Kevin Garnett(notes) walked into the negotiating room on Oct. 4. The owners knew it wouldn’t go well when Garnett started glowering across the table, sources said, like the league lawyers, owners and officials were opponents at the center jump. He was defiant, determined and downright ornery. He was K.G. Everyone knew Hunter had to cede to the wishes of the stars, and the stars demanded that the players stop making concessions to the owners.

As one league official said, “We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up.”

[shadowgrin]

That article proved nothing except the writer's own opinion or that league official's own.

As one league official said, “We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up.”

That link you provided links to Real GM which links to the source article, which is this...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... ion_101711

Read it. It's still far from what you make it out to be regarding KG.

[kAmilli LakeShow]

That article proved nothing except the writer's own opinion or that league official's own.

As one league official said, “We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up.”

That link you provided links to Real GM which links to the source article, which is this...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... ion_101711

Read it. It's still far from what you make it out to be regarding KG.

Yeah, i know, but that link you provided was full of other news, and i just wanted to show you a direct quote. And what you mean read the article? I definitely read it before posting. And how is far from what i said? The official literally said he f-ed it up, he din't mention Fisher, Hunter or anybody else, it says that as soon as KG with his egoistical self walked in negotiations took turn to worse.

[benji]

lol grin what are you doing. It's been known for months now that KG has been taking over player meetings demanding "ubuntu."

And not the delicious free OS.

[shadowgrin]

The official literally said he f-ed it up

That article proved nothing except the writer's own opinion or that league official's own.

lol grin what are you doing. It's been known for months now that KG has been taking over player meetings demanding "ubuntu."

And not the delicious free OS.

I want it to erase the season.

Gotta stay true to my side regarding the lockout topic. If it means defending that hijacking jerk KG, so be it.
Besides, I refuse to believe that Kobe Bryant can easily be influenced by KG, Fisher may be but not Bryant, but we all know that Fisher only listens to Bryant so giving KG the credit for staying strong for the demands of the union (or wrecking the negotiations as you haters call it) is an insult to Kobe's league-wide influence and hard work he put into these negotiations.

[NovU]

And I thought Wade made it worse with heated discussion with Stern.

All this KG talks reminds me of 'all time greatest power forwards since 3pt era' thread. Particularly I recall waiting for someone's list. BTW is benji still sober?

[kAmilli LakeShow]

And I thought Wade made it worse with heated discussion with Stern.

All this KG talks reminds me of 'all time greatest power forwards since 3pt era' thread. Particularly I recall waiting for someone's list. BTW is benji still sober?

haha, bro, u never seen heated discussions about KG on russian sites. They love KG so much, one thread had like 1170 posts XD This right here is just flowers

Shadow, WTH man, who said Kobe was influenced by KG? I think that news story where Kobe stormed into the room with KG and Pierce was a hoax. Kobe been on the side of owners ever since Cuban got his word in. Plus, Kobe was the one to tell Fisher to back down. I honestly don't know what KG is fighting for, he is paid already

[benji]

And I thought Wade made it worse with heated discussion with Stern.

All this KG talks reminds me of 'all time greatest power forwards since 3pt era' thread. Particularly I recall waiting for someone's list. BTW is benji still sober?

You'd like my lists more if I made it not sober. I did the lists before I even started the thing, I just didn't do the write-ups and I got meh about it. Wasn't enough arguin'.

Was actually going to post a couple more threads I made like that now that we've lost November, I was waiting a bit back in case we actually had free agents and stuff. If anybody would be interested in them, I can post up a couple and see if anyone wants more of them.

I should probably try and post my lists for those old ones though, even if few people bother to argue with me. Just to be complete.