Random NBA Discussion 2013-14 Season

[Andrew]

I wonder how Bulls fans feel seeing Aldridge beasting it.

Tyrus Thomas once won the Bulls a game against the Nuggets with a tip-in at the buzzer. No regrets!

But yes, I was surprised and disappointed in that deal from the moment it was announced at the Draft. Such is life though, it's still good to see him establish himself as a bonafide star.

[NovU]

Sucks seeing potentially seeing Lowry going back to playing off the bench.

He won't if the Knicks get him (or stays a Raptor). He will be just as important for the Knicks as for the Raptors.

[_Steve_]

The trade is off right now, as Dolan plays GM again...

[SoF'nAwesome]

Good for Lowry.

[benji]

Why is nobody talking about the Sixers anymore?

[NovU]

Looks like Hollis Thompson is 35 mpg player for the Sixers otherwise for foul issues at times. I hear his defense is solid and he's young so... What else do you want to talk about?

[SoF'nAwesome]

benji wants to insult those who crowned the Sixers as a playoffs team earlier this season.

[_Steve_]

Everything is still possible in the East, even the Sixers playing in the postseason.

[SoF'nAwesome]

The biggest disappointments in the East have so far been Nets, Knicks & Cavs. GSW, Grizzlies & Wolves in the West. Pretty sure Wolves won't be making it to the playoffs this year as well but the other five are still possible.

And there is the Celtics. Who have performed so well that some Heat fans have started bleeding green.

But I think benji is right. It would be a good season for the Sixers just if they don't finish at the bottom.

[_Steve_]

You forgot the Suns. I'm thinking about changing my nickname into "In the Sun". Very respectable performances until now for a team, that traded away a lot of it's assets.

[NovU]

I love Love this season, no homo. Love is lovely, he actually might lead his team to a mediocre status ala Rockets last season. They're probably depth or one key piece away from becoming a contender.

People started to compare Love to Aldridge, lol. I'd rather have Gay to Melo discussion.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Boom. Lillard rocked it. How come bowdown didn't mention that?

[bowdown]

I was going to but I don't wanna be tooting our horn too much before we become legit in the playoffs first.

As for the dude talking about Love Vs Lamarcus. In a playoffs series where defenses make adjustments Id take a guy who can score off his teammates AND score 1 on 1 all day (Aldridge)

Vs. a guy who mainly relies on being fed by his teammates for his shots. Love isnt a reliable 1 on 1 scorer or threat. You can't go to Love on multiple possesions when your team is getting locked down expecting him to carry you offensively.


Not to mention Aldridge can hold his own on defense whereas Love looks helpless.

[NovU]

Love is scoring more with better efficiency. Using screen to catch and shoot is just as important skill as creating on own. (and he does have that go-to Tim Duncan bank shot.) He also sets up for teammates, plays a great playmaker. He's also a superior rebounder even though that's one area LMA really improved. The real reason Blazers are thriving is because of their ability to outscore, vastly more than opponent, with their shooting ability. Just look at 3pts, they top the league by wide margin in 3pt made and percentage. Both Matthews and Batum are shooting well over .600TS% (check how rare that is for guards). Lillard's also playing great ball. Then you have Robin playing vastly better ball than Hickson from last season. And even the bench is contributing, consider it a major upgrade from the worst depth in league last season. LMA is just about the same player 2 seasons ago, is just rebounding better, why is he suddenly better than Love? Because of team success? I don't believe it.

Defense? The Blazers were 26th in defense last season, 23rd season before, 20th this season. They still suck at defense, but their offense the best in the league. Kevin Love is a part of better defense(top 10).

[_Steve_]

I agree with that Green Lantern fellow. LMA has a great supporting cast including a point guard that can create his own shot. Love seems to have a hell of a season, but most of his teammates - including the bust of this year's draft - have not.

[bowdown]

Love is scoring more with better efficiency. Using screen to catch and shoot is just as important skill as creating on own. (and he does have that go-to Tim Duncan bank shot.) He also sets up for teammates, plays a great playmaker. He's also a superior rebounder even though that's one area LMA really improved. The real reason Blazers are thriving is because of their ability to outscore, vastly more than opponent, with their shooting ability. Just look at 3pts, they top the league by wide margin in 3pt made and percentage. Both Matthews and Batum are shooting well over .600TS% (check how rare that is for guards). Lillard's also playing great ball. Then you have Robin playing vastly better ball than Hickson from last season. And even the bench is contributing, consider it a major upgrade from the worst depth in league last season. LMA is just about the same player 2 seasons ago, is just rebounding better, why is he suddenly better than Love? Because of team success? I don't believe it.

Defense? The Blazers were 26th in defense last season, 23rd season before, 20th this season. They still suck at defense, but their offense the best in the league. Kevin Love is a part of better defense(top 10).

Portland is built around Aldridge. If Aldridge wasnt the offensive player he was, this offense wouldnt be nearly as succesful. You are going to blame Aldridge for Blazers being bad defensively but not give him credit for them having the best offense in the league? Great logic. You don't just throw in a bunch of good shooters and get a team playing like Portland has been this year.

Like I already said, Kevin Love is not a reliable 1 on 1 scorer like Aldridge. Aldridge is so dominant that he demands double teams which frees his teammates and is something a coach would love to have in the playoffs.

How many more excuses you got for Love? He has never been in the playoffs and even this year with a healthy team he is still out of the playoff race as of right now. Why? Because Love isn't dominant the way Aldridge is to have an entire offense built around him. That top 10 defense that Love helps anchor according to you is not helping them win more games either is it?

BTW, Portland's bench isnt vastly improved. We have got the inefficient chucker Mo Williams who does an OK job on most nights and Thomas Robinson who is a second year undersized PF who plays 11.4 minutes a game.

[NovU]

Meh, people too often confuse team success to individual performance. Why a double team demanding offensive juggernaut like Aldridge didn't start winning till this season is the very same reason why Love failed to get to the playoffs. The Wolves are terribly managed team. Rubio isn't a superstar unlike people believe but have been under avg pg at best. Pekovic still is mediocre at best. Kevin Martin is past his prime with health issues. Rest of team is garbage that no team could possibly want.

BTW, Portland's bench isnt vastly improved. We have got the inefficient chucker Mo Williams who does an OK job on most nights and Thomas Robinson who is a second year undersized PF who plays 11.4 minutes a game.

Claver, Barton, Babbitt, rookie Meyers were the first players off the bench last season. Williams, Freeland, Wright, Robinson rotation have been universe better.

[YaoKnowWhat_I_Ming]

No one is talking about how the Pistons beat Pacers?!?

As a person who lives in Portland, Oregon I'm pretty biased to the Blazers. But I'll say this. Aldridge basically carried the 10-11 Blazers to the playoffs (With Roy playing 47 of those games). That roster was arguably is no better or worst than the current Wolves. (Wolves are below .500 with Kevin Love's best record-wise season with a whopping 12-13 record). You can argue the West is crazy deep this year, but that year was just was deep with Rockets (43-39 and the Suns (40-42) not making the playoffs so excuses are limited.
The Wolve's are better than people give them credit for. Rubio is not much of a scoring guard, but he plays much like Rondo is terms of craftyness, defense, and underrated rebounding (One triple double this season), while Kevin Martin not in his prime putting up 21 points game isn't scrub numbers neither, Pek puts up 16 points a game, I think he's a biy above average (depending on what you think is a average center), Brewer is a good 3 and D and Love's favorite outlet guy, Chase Budginer is good (out), Dante Cunningham is a good energy role player, JJ Barea still screws teams over, Mbah a Moute is a serviceable defender, and Alexey Shved can ball although his confidence isn't there.
Based off basketball-reference.com, Love and LA have the same defensive rating individually but LA has 2 stocks (steals and blocks) versus Love's 1.2 stocks, so you can't blame LA for Portland's defense and I rather take LA. On go-to moves, K-Love is shooting 44% this year with 2.6 turnovers, compared to LA's 48.5% with 1.9 turnovers(efficiency where?), Blazers can feed LA in the high post to make a play OR pick and pop/spot up, while K-Love is just a strong pick and pop player/spot up from 3 player. Finally, since Kevin did live near Oregon for 17 years, playing Blazers would be great for his homecoming and extra motivation right? No, LA has dominated him with a crazy 11-2 record and LA stats (21.4/8.7/2.0/0.8 stl/1 blk on 51% shooting) overwhelms Love's(17.8/10.7/2.1/.6 stl/.1 blk on 44.2% shooting) And remember, there was some talk of the Wolve's being in the playoffs and Blazers not.

I'm also not saying K-Love isn't a elite PF, or how this isn't still all David Kahn's fault, but give credit to LA who keeps improving every year and at least deserves to be in the convo about being one of the elite PF's we have right now.

[NovU]

I would have agreed if this was me a couple years ago. Ask anyone that's been around long enough like benji or shadowgrin, how much I despised Kevin Love's game and that I argued everyone to death that he was nothing more than a "stat padder".

Ah fuck, this exactly is why I say I'd prefer Gay to Melo discussion. This is tiresome and pointless. So this will be my last post on topic of LMA vs Love.

Aldridge basically carried the 10-11 Blazers to the playoffs (With Roy playing 47 of those games). That roster was arguably is no better or worst than the current Wolves. (Wolves are below .500 with Kevin Love's best record-wise season with a whopping 12-13 record). You can argue the West is crazy deep this year, but that year was just was deep with Rockets (43-39 and the Suns (40-42) not making the playoffs so excuses are limited.

That Rockets team was led by Kevin Martin with Luis Scola/Hayes in middle. The Suns had 37 year old Nash and Gortat. Aldridge was a better player than any of those players. In fact, he arguably was top 3 PF in West that season. Also Andre Miller was still better than Rubio ever was. Batum, and Matthews were also both better than Jared Dudley that Nash had. Add up bits of contribution from defensive force Camby, young Gerald Wallace, corpse of Brandon Roy, hyped up Fernandez, etc, the Blazers actually got solid contribution from rest of the team. I am not saying Aldridge wasn't great but this again is a team effort which a lot of you seem to forget when it comes to how poorly the case applies to Kevin Love.

Rubio is not much of a scoring guard, but he plays much like Rondo is terms of craftyness, defense, and underrated rebounding (One triple double this season),

That drives me crazy. Complete nonsense talk. Rondo's a guy that can take it to the rim at will and finish at high percentage, all without needs of being assisted. That alone makes him special. And Rondo maintained around 50 AST% for years. That's half of all baskets scored by Celtics while he was on the floor. He's also played a defensive stopper role consistently, guarding opponent perimeter threats whenever needed.

There are major flaws in Rubio's game that's holding him back. League avg of PER is 15, and that is where exactly Rubio's at even through eye test. It's not too surprising why. He turns over almost 1/4 of possessions he uses. That'd be forgivable if he was shooting better and assisting at higher rate but he isn't. Good things just come too scarce to justify. Only thing that really keeps his value going is his excellent steal ability. He has a long way to go before being called a valuable player from an avg player. The Wolves need more, more from him on offensive end.

while Kevin Martin not in his prime putting up 21 points game isn't scrub numbers neither, Pek puts up 16 points a game, I think he's a biy above average (depending on what you think is a average center), Brewer is a good 3 and D and Love's favorite outlet guy, Chase Budginer is good (out), Dante Cunningham is a good energy role player, JJ Barea still screws teams over, Mbah a Moute is a serviceable defender, and Alexey Shved can ball although his confidence isn't there.

Kevin Martin has been on downhill since hot start to the season. His PER dropped from 24 to 18.5. Kinda explains why the Wolves have been struggling lately. When your second best player is Kevin Martin and he struggles like shit, your team's not going to win too many games. Then you have Pekovic, who is probably average in everything offensively, then there's defense, he can't block a shot or move well for a center (though his size helps).

Jose Barea is having a worst season since his rookie year. Even if he wasn't, he isn't your ideal first tier depth if you wanted to contend. Brewer played second most minutes and has PER 11.3 which is almost equivalent to rookie Robbie Hummel's. At least Brewer plays a defensive stopper role, lol. But you can see how much it says about talent level outside of Kevin Love. They probably had to keep Kirilenko, he was quite good last season.

On go-to moves, K-Love is shooting 44% this year with 2.6 turnovers, compared to LA's 48.5% with 1.9 turnovers(efficiency where?),

TS% is more accurate way to measure ability to score because getting to the line and hitting at higher rate, and making 3s are also important skills. Think about this. Hitting 2 threes in 5 attempts is equal to hitting 3 two pointers in 5 attempts, but former penalizes your FG%.

Also think about this, LMA takes 20 to score whatever he's averaging, Kevin Love takes approx 1.5 less attempts per game to avg more than LMA. Even better, both are identical in ball usage%, yet Love scores more assists more at vastly better rate.

LA has dominated him with a crazy 11-2 record and LA stats (21.4/8.7/2.0/0.8 stl/1 blk on 51% shooting) overwhelms Love's(17.8/10.7/2.1/.6 stl/.1 blk on 44.2% shooting) And remember, there was some talk of the Wolve's being in the playoffs and Blazers not.

Majority of difference comes from Kevin Love's rookie/sopho seasons. Does that even sound fair to you?

Also consider this. Bill Russell's team beat Wilt Chamberlain's team a lot more but it don't make him a better player. Because that's stupid and illogical.

I'm also not saying K-Love isn't a elite PF, or how this isn't still all David Kahn's fault, but give credit to LA who keeps improving every year and at least deserves to be in the convo about being one of the elite PF's we have right now.

Nobody's denying LMA's great value. It's just that, to any stat person, this season's Kevin Love is the best PF undeniably ala CP3 always has been at PG position.

[shadowgrin]

lol at the talk that Love relies on his teammates to create shots for him.
Love has 61% of his shots assisted while Aldridge has 59% of his shots assisted.
Insignificant 2% difference, big whoop. They're basically the same in relying heavily on teammates to feed them the ball in their preferred scoring positions.

[Andrew]

No one is talking about how the Pistons beat Pacers?!?

Definitely a big win for them, much like their victory over the Heat. However, for the superior team in both of those matchups, it's just one of those things that happens.

[Lamrock]

You know, I can live with the Blazers passing on Drummond for Lillard.

[YaoKnowWhat_I_Ming]

Ah fuck, this exactly is why I say I'd prefer Gay to Melo discussion. This is tiresome and pointless. So this will be my last post on topic of LMA vs Love.

I'll respect that, butttttt, you're points are valid, but again I didn't say LA was better than Love (saved my fantasy team once upon a time), but you're discrediting LA maybe a bit to harsh.

And I would like to see you debate Gay vs. Melo. I'll tried to make a point for Gay, but I'm stumped.

No one is talking about how the Pistons beat Pacers?!?

Definitely a big win for them, much like their victory over the Heat. However, for the superior team in both of those matchups, it's just one of those things that happens.

Kinda strange to see them perform much better away rather than home. But yeah, the Pistons were lucky to catch the Heat and the Pacers both on their "off" days.

You know, I can live with the Blazers passing on Drummond for Lillard.

I can live with that too...kinda. Lol.

[_Steve_]

Making a point for Gay is hard after his last performance...

[YaoKnowWhat_I_Ming]

Making a point for Gay is hard after his last performance...

He was building the slightest momentum though. Haha.