LeBron going to Miami

[Clutch]

live press conf http://www.nba.com/live1/


EDIT: Damn. it's dead

[john26]

lol at cavs fans, calling lebron a traitor, him leaving cleveland was a betrayal, etc.they are so funny

It's no different to Raptors fans booing Vince Carter six years after he left town or any other sign of fanatical devotion to a team.

Carter lowered his trade value to zero and forced himself out of Toronto. Meanwhile, LeBron is ENTITLED to say no to Cleveland and sign with another team, he's allowed to do it.

[shadowgrin]

Damn it, Andrew. 2 essays in one page. That was a lot to read.

This just strengthens my view that majority of Heat fans are stupid by being too lazy to read.

narcissism to the point that he (LeBron) referred to himself in the third person five times in 45 minutes

Wow. He's still no Karl Malone.

I planning on having a Bonfire soon so I guess I can burn my Lebron things too.

No. Keep it. Sell if after he's retired and inducted to the HOF.

[benji]

Typed this up for elsewhere, thought I'd cross-post, this is from a 1996-97 preview magazine. Dan Le Batard on the completely stupid Juwan Howard affair:

"Everybody calls this a fiasco, but it wasn't a fiasco, Riley says through a sigh. "It was tragedy."

The word hangs there for a second - tragedy? Did he really say tragedy? - and Riley quickly follows it with, "short-term, a short-term tragedy," as if there were such a thing. He's trying hard to put the good spin on it, the winner's spin, but it ain't easy, not yet. Maybe that's why, weeks later, that poem remains within arms reach.

...

And Riley, who reserves entire hotel floors to avoid distractions and has his hands on everything from the playbook to the team dining table (always crystal, white linen, and a cloth-napkin folded into a triangle), is a man who prepares for every possibility.

Riley reads Sun Tzu, and he espouses the Chinese general's philosophy that all battles are won before they are fought. So Riley's servants turn on his bathwater, saving time better used to prepare for battles. Riley buys all that Armani by catalog because battles aren't won while shopping for suits.

...

Riley's quest for Howard, Riley's Sun-Tzu like preparation, showed itself for the first time just a few hours before last season's trading deadline in February. Riley was supposed to attend a large Fort Lauderdale charity dinner with coaches and players from all the local pro teams, but instead his wife, Chris, worked the vast ballroom alone, apologizing for her husband's absence.

He had to work late, she explained.

So Heat guard Kevin Gamble, sitting with his wife and some teammates at a table where Riley was supposed to be, was traded away during his dinner. Teammate Bimbo Coles? His nametag sat in front of an empty chair. Riley had traded him before dinner - an appetizer, if you will. In a few minutes, Kevin Willis and Billy Owens would be gone too, replaced by players whose contracts would expire at season's end. Riley had suddenly, miraculously, created $13.1 million in salary space for Howard, more room than any NBA team had.

To acquire Mourning and Howard, Riley shipped off 10 members of his team. Riley, playing poker with players, coldly refers to the 10 as "chips." He was betting the pile on Howard.

"We remodeled the house - no, we leveled it," Riley says. "We had a vision, and took the risk of being good for a long time or bad for a long time because I'm a big believer in risk versus reward. We'll still be good, but to have everything we invested in taken away without regard, to ruin a year's worth of work for whatever reason, it's totally unfair. And to do it so arbitrarily, so forcefully, so quickly and decisively without any talk or negotiation..."

Riley's thought drifts here, lapsing into legalese. He is saying something dry about "filing an injunction" but "having no plaintiff," and now he is citing something called "Paragraph 11 of the Uniform Player Contract."
...
The conversation veers and now Riley, unsolicited, is wondering if it's coincidence that the rules keep changing to keep him from winning. When he was in Los Angeles, he says, the league objected to his half court press, claiming it was a zone, and adjust its rules to open up the lane. When he was in New York, he says, the league objected to his thuggish man-to-man defense, and therefore eliminated hand checking. And now this.

Riley is told he sounds paranoid.

"Not paranoid," he corrects. "Protective. Protective of my team. Always. Nothing matters like those 12 guys."
...
"We have accomplished a lot," Riley says. "This will not be an albatross around this franchise's neck forever. It was a big mess-up, and I'll take total responsibility. I'll take that hit, take the vilification. What bothers me, though, is the changed perception of the franchise, the perception that we're suddenly the Miami Cheat, and that the reason for that is me."

And said poem:

Here I lie, wounded but not slain.
I lie down to bleed a while.
But will rise to fight again.

[shadowgrin]

From the link Andrew posted:

Michael Jordan would have wanted to kick Dwyane Wade's butt every spring, not play with him. This should be mentioned every day for the rest of LeBron's career.

[benji]

I think Neal Paine successfully tore Simmons' stupidity apart: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6870

Although a commenter put it better:

So when it turned out that Kobe was a great player by 2001, Shaq should have demanded a trade so that he could defeat him instead of teaming up with him? Robinson should have thrown a fit when the Spurs drafted Duncan, right? Because it's about competition. Magic should have told the Lakers he was not interested in playing with them because it would rob him of the opportunity to defeat Kareem?

I just don't follow that rationale. Where is the line? How good of a teammate is a great player allowed to have before it becomes a cop out? I need a graph

And this one tried to be the stupidest person the internet:

This Miami merger is about the path of least resistance. It is about LeBron avoiding pressure. Even if he loses it can't all be on him.

And if they win next year what is the narrative? What did they overcome?

I predict right now that they won't win a ring. Whenever people try to avoid the hard roads and grab the sweet without the sour, life has a funny way of smacking them down harder than anyone else. When it sounds too good to be true it is. Get-rich quick doesn't happen.

THIS TEAM NEVER WINS A RING. Mark it down.

LeBron's choice was his to make and he made it. I'm not calling him a heel for it. There are things that it reveals though. He isn't a competitor on par with Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Magic, MJ, Russell, Kareem, etc. He'll never crack any Top 10 of all time.

His ceiling is now Pippen not Jordan. Just the facts.

[kingjames23]

this is nothing new folks

Jordan, the greatest shooting guard of all time, had on his team the best and most versatile small forward playing in the game at that time, Pippen, and the greatest rebounding forward/best defenders of all time Rodman.

the 2nd bulls dynasty had a stacked roster, this sort of thing has been happening over and over again going back to Wilt, West and Baylor

Magic, Kareem, Worthy...

Bird, McHale Parish...

James is the greatest small forward of his era, now playing along side the 2nd best shooting guard in the game right now, Wade... along with a top 5 power forward, Bosh. can we not see that this is similar?



the problem people are finding with this, as opposed to say "the new Celtic's big 3" is that those Celtics all toiled away for years on losing teams and already passed their primes. coming together seemed like something Pierce, Garnett and Allen had earned. The new Miami big 3 havent even hit their 30's yet. it seems unfair to most people.

just remember Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game at one point and had a top 10 power forward of his time.

Shaq and Kobe while winning titles together were also, and one player short of a superstar trifecta ,if they had Karl Malone and Payton somehow in 2000, wouldn't everyone have cried about that too? Just a bit of overkill? it was ok in 04 because Malone and Payton were on the downside of their careers and needed that title.

Stockton and Malone were the best at their positions at one time, imagine if Utah got Hakeem Olajuwon, or David Robinson... to counter the Bulls...? this would be the same thing that just happened on the Heat.


Dont be surprised if this sparks off more of the same in coming years. I see a bunch of power trios happening soon. such as Chris Paul, Carmello Anthony and Dwight Howard on a team...

speaking of which... if Miami somehow got Anthony... insert nervous laugh... they would have 4 of the top 5 picks in that draft on one team (then they should sign Darko, just for fun and have all 5.)

i also see a "if you cant beat em join em" mentality happening. veterans who havent won a title yet taking big paycuts to join these teams because they know time is running out.

also, does anyone seriously see old man Shaq staying in Cleveland now? no. he will kiss and make up with Kobe, or go back to Miami. you watch. at 38 years old, nothing else makes sense for him than to be on one of those 2 teams.

ok, random thoughts over with. run with that.

[benji]

Okay, I will.

James is the greatest small forward of his era, now playing along side the 2nd best shooting guard in the game right now, Wade... along with a top 5 power forward, Bosh. can we not see that this is similar?

It's not. Wade is the BEST player at his position and one of the three best players in the league. Never has the best player in the league teamed with the third best player and added another top 25 player with the entire roster to makeover. Never. And they're all still, and this is the scary part, before their primes.

remember Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game at one point

When was that?

Stockton and Malone were the best at their positions at one time

Eh.

Dont be surprised if this sparks off more of the same in coming years. I see a bunch of power trios happening soon. such as Chris Paul, Carmello Anthony and Dwight Howard on a team...

Don't worry, the lockout will take care of this.

also, does anyone seriously see old man Shaq staying in Cleveland now? no. he will kiss and make up with Kobe, or go back to Miami. you watch. at 38 years old, nothing else makes sense for him than to be on one of those 2 teams.

There is no way he goes back to the Lakers. Zero. I would actually put money on this.

[shadowgrin]

this sort of thing has been happening over and over again going back to Wilt, West and Baylor

Those three never won a championship together.

[kingjames23]

WILT WEST and BAYLOR played together, but the title didn't come until the year after BAYLOR retired. still, the same kind of team.

Kobe is still the best 2 guard and the best player in the league. in a few years Wade may yet surpass him but he hasn't yet, Wade didn't have as much help these past few years, so his numbers are higher. just wait for the inevitable drop in stats this coming year...

i would say Lebron is #2 Wade #3 in the league currently... with Bosh in the top 5 for his position


now Wade has to share the ball more... i see him and Bron getting 20-22 points a game each, bosh gets 16-18... hardly mvp stats for any of them. Kobe ends up mvp next year.... unless durant gets even freakier numbers than last year.

Jordan, is the greatest ever, of course
through the mid 90's and during that 2nd title run, Pippen was the top sf in the game. you cant even argue it. Bird was done, who are you going to pick over him at his position? Barkley? Wilkins?

i would say they (JORDAN/PIPPEN) were #1-# 2 at that time. for most of the 90's

just look at the career numbers for Stockton and Malone, they were the best pure pg and pf of their time. especially in 1997/1998 when they had title shots

[benji]

WILT WEST and BAYLOR played together, but the title didn't come until the year after BAYLOR retired. still, the same kind of team.

Except for the whole part where it's different.

Kobe is still the best 2 guard

Still? Has he ever been?

and the best player in the league.

lol wat.

just wait for the inevitable drop in stats this coming year...

You kids really need to learn how stats work.

i would say Lebron is #2 Wade #3 in the league currently...

I really can't put Chris Paul over LeBron, sorry.

Kobe ends up mvp next year

You think the Lakers are going to get worse in talent? Bold prediction.

through the mid 90's and during that 2nd title run, Pippen was the top sf in the game. you cant even argue it. Bird was done, who are you going to pick over him at his position? Barkley? Wilkins?

So we're talking about "SF" and then you name Barkley?

And yeah, YOU CAN argue it. Wilkins vaporized him offensively, and Grant Hill did what he did better. And I still think Pippen was the best SF of that era.

i would say they (JORDAN/PIPPEN) were #1-# 2 at that time. for most of the 90's

Still wondering how you're putting Pippen over everyone else. You're aware of David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon right?

just look at the career numbers for Stockton and Malone, they were the best pure pg and pf of their time. especially in 1997/1998 when they had title shots

So what are you arguing? Career or a specific time?

[shadowgrin]

WILT WEST and BAYLOR played together, but the title didn't come until the year after BAYLOR retired. still, the same kind of team.

My point still stands...

Those three never won a championship together.

So their "stacked" roster won the championship, minus Baylor. I don't get it why you even compared it to the other great teams that had Big Threes which won a championship.

[benji]

To be fair Gail Goodrich is closer to Bosh (in context of the league) than Baylor (pre-having his knees removed) was.

LeBron is totally going to be Wilt though, giving up records to do what the team needs.

[shadowgrin]

Pat Riley played for those teams (before and after Baylor retired)! Riley is now the president (and eventual coach) of the Heat! OMG, a pattern!

[kingjames23]

WILT WEST BAYLOR didnt win a title together
WADE JAMES BOSH havent won one together yet... so its the SAME as of this moment.

no way these guys put up nearly as high of numbers this year as they did last year, since they have to share the ball more.

Pippen was better than Wilkins for a stretch, and Grant Hill was a few steps below Pippen. Barkley was thrown in there because there were no other sf close to those guys and he played both sf and pf. i forgot about HIll for a sec... but no way was he even close to Pip. Pippen would have been the top player on any other team. from 1996-98 pip was the 2nd best player in the game.

Hill was a 21 points per game guy and top dog on his team during the 2nd bulls dynasty.

Pippen was 2nd fiddle getting 19/20 during the 2nd bulls dynasty and was a shut down defender

wilkins averaged 17, 18 and 5 ppg during the 2nd bulls dynasty, clearly he had diminished

Stock and Malone, best for their time, and clearly the best during those 2 years. i would consider Magic the best point guard ever, but not a pure point guard. stockton was a pure point guard. and clearly the best while he was playing in his prime. Malone the same.

kobe is still the best player in the game. %99 of the time he's a killer. a fucked up shooting hand made him less effective in the finals this year and people bitch that he choked or had to be saved. the proof is that he is a champion 5 times now, is a better defender than LeBron, and has more offensive weapons plus a will to win only seen before in the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird and Russell

[benji]

WILT WEST BAYLOR didnt win a title together
WADE JAMES BOSH havent won one together yet... so its the SAME as of this moment.

Age?

no way these guys put up nearly as high of numbers this year as they did last year, since they have to share the ball more.

Again, you don't understand statistics.

Pippen would have been the top player on any other team. from 1996-98 pip was the 2nd best player in the game.

Hill was a 21 points per game guy and top dog on his team during the 2nd bulls dynasty.

Pippen was 2nd fiddle getting 19/20 during the 2nd bulls dynasty and was a shut down defender

wilkins averaged 17, 18 and 5 ppg during the 2nd bulls dynasty, clearly he had diminished

This is borderline gibberish.

kobe is still the best player in the game. %99 of the time he's a killer. a fucked up shooting hand made him less effective in the finals this year and people bitch that he choked or had to be saved. the proof is that he is a champion 5 times now, is a better defender than LeBron, and has more offensive weapons plus a will to win only seen before in the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird and Russell

So is this.

Actually wait.

kobe is still the best player in the game.

This is beyond gibberish.

There is no way this claim can be defended without opening someone up to things they don't want to.

[shadowgrin]

WILT WEST BAYLOR didnt win a title together
WADE JAMES BOSH havent won one together yet... so its the SAME as of this moment.

What is your point again?

i would consider Magic the best point guard ever, but not a pure point guard. stockton was a pure point guard. and clearly the best while he was playing in his prime.

Define "pure point guard".

the proof is that he is a champion 5 times now

Can anyone answer my questions:
Is Shaq a FA this season?
Is Pau Gasol still in Memphis?
Ron Artest still suspended?
People say that Robert Horry is better than Kobe because he has more rings, is that true?

[NovU]

I think Neal Paine successfully tore Simmons' stupidity apart: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6870

Although a commenter put it better:

So when it turned out that Kobe was a great player by 2001, Shaq should have demanded a trade so that he could defeat him instead of teaming up with him? Robinson should have thrown a fit when the Spurs drafted Duncan, right? Because it's about competition. Magic should have told the Lakers he was not interested in playing with them because it would rob him of the opportunity to defeat Kareem?

I just don't follow that rationale. Where is the line? How good of a teammate is a great player allowed to have before it becomes a cop out? I need a graph

And this one tried to be the stupidest person the internet:

This Miami merger is about the path of least resistance. It is about LeBron avoiding pressure. Even if he loses it can't all be on him.

And if they win next year what is the narrative? What did they overcome?

I predict right now that they won't win a ring. Whenever people try to avoid the hard roads and grab the sweet without the sour, life has a funny way of smacking them down harder than anyone else. When it sounds too good to be true it is. Get-rich quick doesn't happen.

THIS TEAM NEVER WINS A RING. Mark it down.

LeBron's choice was his to make and he made it. I'm not calling him a heel for it. There are things that it reveals though. He isn't a competitor on par with Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Magic, MJ, Russell, Kareem, etc. He'll never crack any Top 10 of all time.


His ceiling is now Pippen not Jordan. Just the facts.

Great comment followed by shadowgrin like post.

[phscyiipfer]

I was just thinking, What if LBJ was first to join in w/the heat then it was bosh who came in to form the trio, will fans be hating LBJ as much as they do now?

[Killer Crossover aka OG]

Mmh that looks more the ShowTime in Miami, rather than for the championship
Let's see what comes of it from this team Miami Heat

[shadowgrin]

Yes, they will still hate him. 'Fans' have a huge expectations for the best player in the planet, unlike the expectations for Bosh.

[Cartar]

All 3 took a around $15M paycut (S&T), James and Bosh $14,5M this year, Wade $14M, max was around $16,7M, which probably will leave them with additional $5M (around) cap space after Miller signing, probably to retain Haslem. All 3 have ETO in 2014. Toronto got his pick back + 2011 Miami's pick + TPE, Cleveland got 2013 and 2015 first rounder + TPE.

Source

This makes Joe Johnson the biggest contract of the offseason.

[kevin02]

I planning on having a Bonfire soon so I guess I can burn my Lebron things too.

No. Keep it. Sell if after he's retired and inducted to the HOF.[/quote] Yeah, I'll keep I'll my bobble heads and anything else that will be worth something. I'll just burn the cheap t-shirts.

[Jackal]

Despite being Miami born, I don't really give a shit about Miami. I don't like their arena, I don't like their jerseys and I don't really like Wade. He seems like a nice guy and all but him falling after every drive irritates me. I never liked James' personality either, I think he's a little attentionwhore.

Doesn't take away from the fact that it's a pretty epic signing. Good for Miami, as a basketball fan I will try to get some tickets for when I'm in Miami come december. Will be googling that later tonight.

I'm glad this whole shit is over though, every other basketball article about where will Lebron go was beginning to irritate me. Good for Lebron, yay for Miami and congratulations to the fans. Now shut the fuck up about it already.

Edit: I'm also glad he didn't go to Chicago. Not because I don't want Chicago to be good or anything but every other sentence comparing him to Michael Jordan seemed like a bit much. I liked Jordan, I don't like James.

[air gordon]

all the media exposure was just beginning to irritate you? you are a patient man

are single game tickets even for sale yet?