X's Hypothetical Draft Do-overs *1984 Posted*

[JT_55]

Which is why Vancouver no longer has a franchise, and why I will always hate Steve "Franchise", the only real guy of value Vancouver got in the draft (I guess Shareef, too).

If we'd gotten Nash we wouldn't even need Franchise. But Reef was okay, so I guess he was the only decent player to actually play in Vancouver.

Then again, I can't hate "Franchise" too much. I'm a Houston fan...

[Lamrock]

I think I agree with this re-draft more than the others for some reason. All of your picks were right on.

As for the 1994 draft, I'm pretty sure #2 will be Yinka Dare.

[Silas]

Yes! The great assist man

[Andrew]

9. New Jersey: SG/PG- Brent Barry (picked #15)

With a young Derrick Coleman & Kenny Anderson leading the way, with Chris Morris & Armon Gilliam in the mix, the Nets still needed a SG to fill out their starting lineup, & Brent Barry is the best available & could help the team as a rookie. Whilst he wouldn't have filled the void that Drazen Petrovic's death left a couple of summers before, he would've helped.

Another minor clarification, Chris Morris signed with Utah that offseason and Coleman didn't see any action for the Nets that year before being traded to Philly in November. I wouldn't change the pick though as Barry is the best available talent at #9.

[The X]

Can't really complain with the picks, the reasoning was well thought out. Though I suppose you could make the argument that perhaps Stackhouse should have gone higher because there aren't many guys who've averaged nearly 30 ppg for an entire season.

I actually originally had Stack at 2, but ended up going with Sheed....Stack couldn't go to Philly & Fins was a better fit there, so he fell to 4....but it was a close call at 2....

9. New Jersey: SG/PG- Brent Barry (picked #15)

With a young Derrick Coleman & Kenny Anderson leading the way, with Chris Morris & Armon Gilliam in the mix, the Nets still needed a SG to fill out their starting lineup, & Brent Barry is the best available & could help the team as a rookie. Whilst he wouldn't have filled the void that Drazen Petrovic's death left a couple of summers before, he would've helped.

Another minor clarification, Chris Morris signed with Utah that offseason and Coleman didn't see any action for the Nets that year before being traded to Philly in November. I wouldn't change the pick though as Barry is the best available talent at #9.

the draft would've happened prior to the off-season, so there is no guarantee that Morris would've not stayed with the Nets had they not drafted & signed Ed O'Bannon to be their starting SF....I'm not really sure what their thought process at the time was, but when doing these re-drafts, I'm really just looking at the rosters the teams had at that point....I do take free agents into consideration though....if Morris were to leave regardless, Brent Barry still would've been the fit as he can play anyway from 1 to 3....as for Coleman, I don't think it was the Nets' intention to trade him when they were drafting that year....

so yeah, I'm trying to avoid too many variables, as it gets too messy....I look at season ending rosters, where the holes were & also a look at the following season's rosters just to see if the team made any off-season trades, signings....but yeah, you have pretty good history knowledge if you can remember that off the top of your head without googling it....I do recall Morris going to Jazz & being somewhat of a disappointment....he was still a good player for them, but he had more talent than he showed on the court....

[Its_asdf]

7. Toronto: PG- Damon Stoudamire (picked #7)

This pick was a bit of a dilemma as I remember he left them after about 2 & a half seasons, mostly due to Isiah Thomas, but ahh well. I seriously considered Brent Barry & Theo Ratliff at this spot, but Mighty Mouse provided a good platform for the start of the Expansion Franchise as he bolted away for ROY honours, & was a 19-20ppg, 8-9apg player in his time with the Raptors. Maybe the Raptors' fans can help me out, was this still the right pick?

Overall, I think Raptor fans do feel a bit slighted when they traded a future star player for some role players after just a couple of seasons. Without trading Stoudamire, the Raptors would've never gotten Alvin Williams. Williams doesn't have the impact that Stoudamire had statistically, but the man is easily one of my favourite Raptors of all time (i'm sure a lot of Raptor fans feel the same way too). He played with so much hustle and almost every fourth quarter he'd carry the offensive load with Vince. Not to mention he hit that big shot against New York in the playoffs.

Stoudamire didn't even play that well in Portland anyway. He never really lived up to his potential.

[Andrew]

the draft would've happened prior to the off-season, so there is no guarantee that Morris would've not stayed with the Nets had they not drafted & signed Ed O'Bannon to be their starting SF....I'm not really sure what their thought process at the time was, but when doing these re-drafts, I'm really just looking at the rosters the teams had at that point....I do take free agents into consideration though....if Morris were to leave regardless, Brent Barry still would've been the fit as he can play anyway from 1 to 3....as for Coleman, I don't think it was the Nets' intention to trade him when they were drafting that year....

so yeah, I'm trying to avoid too many variables, as it gets too messy....I look at season ending rosters, where the holes were & also a look at the following season's rosters just to see if the team made any off-season trades, signings....but yeah, you have pretty good history knowledge if you can remember that off the top of your head without googling it....I do recall Morris going to Jazz & being somewhat of a disappointment....he was still a good player for them, but he had more talent than he showed on the court....

Chris Morris was a free agent and wanted out though. He'd already demanded a trade more than once in recent years, so I don't think it's likely he would have re-signed regardless of how the Nets drafted. Coleman had also begun to wear out his welcome after no-showing the Nets' final game of the 1995 season (amongst other incidents) so his days in New Jersey were numbered as well. But as I said, it doesn't really change the pick since I agree Barry was the best talent left at #9.

[The X]

1994 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. Milwaukee: PG- Jason Kidd (picked #2)

A gimme at this spot is the future HOF PG. The Bucks had a pretty handy PG in Eric Murdock, but you just don't pass on Kidd as he's by far the top prospect in this draft. It's a shame co-ROY Grant Hill got injured, otherwise this would've been a much closer race at the top.

2. Dallas: SF- Grant Hill (picked #3)

Grant Hill was a spectacular player prior to his 6 years in Detroit prior to his injury woes. He was an all-around superstar, who was in his prime. Unfortunately injuries cost him the prime of his career when he should've been competing for a title. Either way, even with the injuries, I'd still put him at 2, that's how good he was. You might ask how he'd fit in with Mash & JJ, Hill would play beside them as a point forward as the Mavs could've fielded a bigger lineup & would've been fun to watch.

3. Detroit: SF- Glenn Robinson (picked #1)

This pick came down to Big Dog & Eddie Jones. Since the Pistons already had an improving Allan Houston & veteran Joe Dumars manning the SG spot, I thought SF was over greater need. It might be easy to forget that Big Dog was a 20ppg scorer for the first 9 years of his career, so he was quite the accomplished scorer. Maybe Joe D could've instilled some work ethic & pride in defence & he would've been a much better all-around player & better in the locker room.

4. Minnesota: SG/SF- Eddie Jones (picked #10)

Jones is a gimme at this spot. He would've combined with J.R. Rider & formed one of the most explosive swingman combinations in the league. Jones was a good defender (most notably a thief, probably learnt at Temple, which makes sense) which is exactly what this team needed. A nice little building block piece it would've been.

5. Washington: PF- Juwan Howard (picked #5)

The Bullets had not yet traded for Webber at this point so I can't fault their original pick of his Fab Five teammate Juwan Howard (I can fault them for paying him max dollars, but we'll let that one slide for now). Howard was a blue collar guy who came in & would give you 18 & 8 every night, & did so for his first 9 or 10 years in the league. The Bullets weren't very good, so they couldn't pass up on that.

6. Philadelphia: SF/SG- Jalen Rose (picked #13)

It was between a personal fav of mine in Brian Grant & Jalen Rose. Whilst they could've used Brian Grant, who was a good PF pre-injuries, I thought Jalen Rose was more what a team led by Dana Barros, Jeff Malone & Clarence Weatherspoon needed. He'd take a few years to hit his strides, but a useful player from the outset.

7. LA Clippers: PF- Brian Grant (picked #8)

Grant was great as a rookie. While the Clips already had Loy Vaught, I have no doubt that these 2 guys could've started together & added a bit more toughness to the team. A strong player when healthy. Another possibility at this spot was Donyell Marshall, but I always liked Grant more, so that's why he doesn't go here.

8. Sacramento: SF/PF- Donyell Marshall (picked #4)

The Kings go with the best available talent in UConn's Donyell Marshall, who was considered a bust by many early in his career. Marshall would carve out a niche for himself later in his career & once teams realised he would never be a star or go-to-player, Marshall play improved. He could've helped the improving Kings off the bat as a 6th man.

9. Boston: SG/SF- Wesley Person (picked #23)

You didn't actually think they'd draft Eric Montross again, did you?!? No wonder the Celtics got so bad so quick, picking like that. Unfortunately for the Celtics, the pickings start to get pretty slim pretty quick. With not much available, the Celtics grab sharpshooting swingman Wesley Person, who at the very least is a player that can help them straight away.

10. LA Lakers: SG/SF- Eric Piatowski (picked #15)

Sorry Lakers, so Eddie Jones like steals at this spot anymore. Fear not though, as you would soon acquire the great Cedric Ceballos. Like the Celtics though, you are resigned to taking the best shooter available in Eric Piatowski, who was a useful bench player for the other LA team for a number of years.

11. Seattle/Charlotte: SG/SF- Aaron McKie (picked #17)

I know that Sonics got this pick off Hornets, I just don't know what for. I'll assume for argument's sake that it's the Sonics' pick. The Sonics were a championship calibre team at the time & so I've got them taking a defensive minded swingman from Temple (sound familiar). McKie would've earned some minutes through his defence & would've helped the team somewhat.


Three toughest omissions: Charlie Ward (#26), Howard Eisley (#30), Voshon Lenard (#46).

Three biggest flops: Sharone Wright (#6), Eric Montross (#9), Khalid Reeves (#12).


I have spared Yinka Dare (#14) from the embarassment of flopping, mainly due to his cult status Wasn't a very good draft at all looking at it. 1993 is probably at least a few days away. Enjoy.

[SVG18]

I like this thread very much ... great work the X

man I used to love Grant Hills game... if not for his injuries he would be an all time great. He sure would have topped your list

[The X]

I like this thread very much ... great work the X

man I used to love Grant Hills game... if not for his injuries he would be an all time great. He sure would have topped your list

yep, I agree....you look at Grant Hill's PER, it's still tops in this class by over 2 points....but it wasn't that, he was the complete package....he would've definitely be number 1 & HOF material had he stayed healthy IMHO....but that's Mr. Basketball for you....

thanks for the compliment btw....I plan to continue these until the first lottery (I think it was in 1983 but I couldn't be sure, sometime around then) with Ewing (I think) in it....then I will rate the classes (based mostly on the lottery talent) from 1 to 20 odd....

I love NBA drafts & college ball, so I enjoy these sort of retrospective things, so I plan on continuing them....

[Lamrock]

Great re-draft X. I never realized that was such a terrible draft outside the top 2.

1994 will be even slimmer. Outside of my predicted top 3 of Webber, Cassell and Hardaway,there really aren't very many good players... Shawn Bradley FTW?

Its a shame that with less and less expansion teams, the lottery was smaller back then. In a couple of drafts, there will be no Orlando and just a ten-player lottery.

[jonthefon]

BRADLEY! Poster bait! Traded to Dallas for a couple of All-Star calibre players and a few other decent role players! Gotta be worth something.

[Andrew]

No real disagreement here on the 1994 draft, though the Lakers might have gone with McKie over Piatkowski, or perhaps one of the three noteworthy players who didn't make the cut.

I'm interested to see where you'll put Shawn Bradley. I'm guessing you'll drop him from the top three but I can't recall any players who might push him right out of the lottery that year.

[Silas]

Not a single one to disagree with, great work X. Like many above me have said, I really love these things and can't wait for the next one. These are way better than the blogs they post on hoopshype.

[The X]

Great re-draft X. I never realized that was such a terrible draft outside the top 2.

1994 will be even slimmer. Outside of my predicted top 3 of Webber, Cassell and Hardaway,there really aren't very many good players... Shawn Bradley FTW?

Its a shame that with less and less expansion teams, the lottery was smaller back then. In a couple of drafts, there will be no Orlando and just a ten-player lottery.

there's at least another 4 All-Star players outside that top 3

BRADLEY! Poster bait! Traded to Dallas for a couple of All-Star calibre players and a few other decent role players! Gotta be worth something.

without looking at it, I'd imagine Bradley will scrape into bottom part of lottery....just a guess....haven't done it yet though....

No real disagreement here on the 1994 draft, though the Lakers might have gone with McKie over Piatkowski, or perhaps one of the three noteworthy players who didn't make the cut.

I'm interested to see where you'll put Shawn Bradley. I'm guessing you'll drop him from the top three but I can't recall any players who might push him right out of the lottery that year.

If not Piatowski, I'd probably put Howard Eisley as their next pick

Not a single one to disagree with, great work X. Like many above me have said, I really love these things and can't wait for the next one. These are way better than the blogs they post on hoopshype.

cheers, thanks for compliment....will continue to keep them rolling

[Anthony15]

94 is a weak draft, only J-Kidd and Hill are names that are called stars.

[Its_asdf]

I wouldn't say that Kidd and Hill are the only stars. There are plenty of notable names in that draft in X's lottery, but outside of that it pretty much went downhill from there.

Rose, Robinson, Howard and Jones were all all-star calibre material at one point in their career. Brian Grant and Marshall also had very solid careers.

[Sauru]

brian grant was huge for like a 2 year period then he dropped of about as fast as he came up

[The X]

1993 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. Orlando: PF- Chris Webber (picked #1)

Another gimme at the top, except this time the Magic won't make the blunder of trading him away. The Magic were a young up-and-coming team with Shaq, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott & a veteran PG in Scott Skiles leading the way. Add in a super talent at PF in Chris Webber & this team would've continued their rise.

2. Philadelphia: PG- Sam Cassell (picked #24)

Whilst he would've likely backed up Dana Barros for another year or so, Sam Cassell's career work & longevity puts him at this spot. The 76ers were pretty dismal & at the very least, Sam I Am would've added some heart & desire to this team.

3. Golden State: PG/SG- Anfernee Hardaway (picked #3)

I honestly didn't think I'd put Penny this high & maybe I shouldn't have, but the fact is the Warriors had the injury bug (Tim Bug had blown his knee out & would miss the next season, Sarunas Marciulionis would not play another game for the Warriors). The Warriors still had Mullin & a fast improving Sprewell. Penny could've slotted straight in at PG & started straight away until Tim Bug returned from injury the following season. For his first 5 years in the league, Penny was a huge star & had injuries (& ego) not cut him short, he might've been alright. Note I've never been a fan of Penny, I always thought he was overrated, but he's still good, that's for sure. I thought about stretching on Vin Baker at this spot too since the Warriors needed a PF, but his career came as unravelled as Penny's did, so I'd take Penny over him.

4. Dallas: PF- Vin Baker (picked #8)

With Jim Jackson already in check, I don't think Allan Houston would've been the right guy for the job. If Mash wasn't so injured & had of worked better, then I'd have Mavs taking him again. So I'm left with a quandry. The Mavs needed a PF as good as Baker & he was good, at least for about 5 years or so before the juice took over. He was an all-star a few times, but was never the same player once he was dealt to Seattle.

5. Minnesota: SG- Allan Houston (picked #11)

Allan Houston would've been a much more sensible & safe pick than Isaiah Rider. Houston would be a consumate pro for many years & would provide a good platform for the team's future.

6. Washington: PG- Nick Van Exel (picked #37)

Nick Van Quick would've stepped right in & helped the Bullets. He wouldn't have made them a good team, but he would've helped a lot more than Calbert Cheaney did. I thought about taking Mash here, but he had too many injuries after 2 great seasons to enter the league. Van Exel would've displaced Michael Adams as the team's new PG for the future. Teaming with Rex Chapman in the backcourt, they would've stuck a few daggers in people's hearts.

7. Sacramento: C- Shawn Bradley (picked #2)

I can't believe I've got him above Mash, but that's mainly due to Mash's injury woes, plus the Kings strong depth at SG & SF (Richmond, Simmons & Walt Williams), & the Kings need for help inside. Bradley would've helped off the bat, giving them up to 12ppg, 8rpg, but more importantly about 3bpg. In Sacramento & at this pick, he wouldn't have had the pressure heaped on him as he did in Philly at #2, so he might've worked out well here.

8. Milwaukee: SF- Jamal Mashburn (picked #4)

I will not let Mash fall any further. The Bucks really needed a starting SF, as they needed a real punch in the arm, which Mash would've given them off the bat (19.2ppg, 24.1ppg) in his first two seasons & a strong start to his 3rd season (23.4ppg). Unfortunately after playing 79 & 80 games in his first 2 seasons, Mash would follow that with 18, 69, 48 & 24 respectively over his next 4 seasons. Once recovered by the 1999/00 season, he was back to near his best, but he drops this far as the lottery teams need help those first 5 years IMHO.

9. Denver: SG- Isaiah Rider (picked #5)

I thought about sticking with Rodney Rogers at this spot, but Rider was too good a talent to pass on, even with his character issues. Before he starting bouncing around, Rider was one of the better young SG's around, able to put up to 20ppg through those first 5 or so years. The Nuggets had Mutombo, LaPhonso Ellis, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Robert Pack, Reggie Williams & Bryant Stith, a team that would make one of the greatest comebacks in playoff series history to beat the Sonics. Maybe Rider would've helped them get past the Jazz in that 7th game, who knows. But he's worth the gamble at this spot.

10. Detroit: PG/SG- Lindsey Hunter (picked #10)

With Isiah Thomas' career winding down, & the need to find at the very least a backup & maybe a replacement, Hunter was the best available guard fitting that description. Whilst he would never be more than a good backup for his career, he's a solid pick at this point.

11. Detroit: SF/SG- Bruce Bowen (undrafted)

I had to slip Bowen in somewhere, so this seems like a good spot to a team whose renowned for their tough defensive play. He probably wouldn't have played much the first few of years, but his defensive tenacity would've eventually earned him some minutes down the line. Bowen edges out Rodney Rogers at this spot.

Four toughest omissions: Rodney Rogers (#9), Chris Mills (#22), Bryon Russell (#45), Bo Outlaw (undrafted).

Four biggest flops: Calbert Cheaney (#6), Bobby Hurley (#7), Scott Haskin (#14), Luther Wright (#18).


I've got a feeling there might be a couple of disagreements with this one, but I think that's mainly due to the injury woes of this draft class, which meant picking after the top 2 spots became a lot tougher. I really wanted to put Gheorghe Muresan (#30) in, but unfortunately he got injured after 3 good seasons to start his career.

It's gonna start to get harder from the 1992 draft onwards, as I only started following the league in 1993, so it should be good to see how good my NBA history is. I'll post 1992 in a few days I'd say. Enjoy.

EDIT: Just looking at next re-draft that I'll be doing. Not top heavy, but boy is it deep. You could be picking late in 1st Round in do-over & still pick up a nice role player.

[Lamrock]

Since I started watching basketball in the 99-00 season, I only have seen 5 of the lottery players play...

Injuries made this draft very hard to redo, but you managed it. Baker at 4... He's sort of an inside joke here in Seattle nowadays...

[The X]

Since I started watching basketball in the 99-00 season, I only have seen 5 of the lottery players play...

Injuries made this draft very hard to redo, but you managed it. Baker at 4... He's sort of an inside joke here in Seattle nowadays...

yeah, I could imagine he would be a joke....

as for the re-draft, yeah, injuries that ruin a player's career make it really tough....I know Vin Baker isn't better than Jamal Mashburn, but Baker was a good PF & healthy for 1st 5 years....Mash only really had his first 2 seasons, then the next 4 were wiped out....as a lottery team looking to improve quickly, I'd take the 5 good years with Baker & ditch him before he goes downhill....same reasoning for Penny....reap the rewards, early in the player's career, the first half of their career they are a good trade asset....it's just up to the team to realise when to cut & run....

[Andrew]

I can see where you're coming from with the injuries but personally I'd still put Hardaway and Mashburn over Cassell. I agree that Shawn Bradley would still be going top ten though. He was after all an excellent shotblocker who utilised his natural advantage extremely well and even spent a few seasons as a double digit scorer. For all the jokes about him, there's no one who should knock him out of the lottery in 1993.

[Sauru]

in hind sight trading webber was a bad idea but when the magic did it i thought it was a perfect move. they got a top level point and 3 future draft picks. they got the player they wanted with a bonus. if penny dont get hit with injuries and shaq stays in orlando that team has atleast 1 championship right now.

[frenchy]

Scott Haskin (#14)

Who was this guy ?
Which team drafted him ?

Penny and Shaq ,
I think Penny's career would have turn in other way if Orlando had won the 95 finals ("Why not us, why not now" => because Hakeem was in Houston)

[benji]

I'd still put Hardaway and Mashburn over Cassell..

Oh, no way. Cassell was a beast. Yeah, from 1994-1997, Penny is the better player. But then Cassell explodes (and Penny's knees fall apart) and becomes the one of the most dominant point guards of the last decade.

Stay with me here. Yeah, Payton, Kidd, and Nash have all been better. But only for two-three year stints. Cassell was top three, and often top two, until 2005.

I hate to put too much focus on team success, but Cassell won with Houston, when he got to New Jersey they had a short ascension, then he got to the Conference Finals in Milwaukee and Minnesota. Then he leads the Clippers in 2005-06? It surely can't be a coincidence, that his arrival coincides with the realization of a lot of these teams talents can it?

As I've quoted before: "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences."

Cassell was great, and until 2004, he was the greatest player to never play in an all-star game. Unrightfully so for many of those years.

Plus, I would draft him number one. If only to see him stop dribbling upcourt causing a player to run into him. He's been in the league for how long and people are still falling for this?