X's Hypothetical Draft Do-overs *1984 Posted*

[TheMC5]

And please, no more homophobic references. I've heard that remark far too many times and by people with far lower diction than yourself.

My apologies. It was not actually intended as a homophobic statement, just friendly jab (although, I suppose it may have fallen a little bit below the belt ).

However, I am still curious as to why you think so highly of Korver.

[JT_55]

You haven't seen anything, TheMC5, just read what people had to say about Milicic in the Detroit thread.

Go Kyle Korver!

[The X]

MC5, everyone is allowed to like a token player....I like Sean Marks, but that's because he was 1st Kiwi to make NBA (Kirk Penney being the other)....

although Kyle Korver is too good to be a token player....I rate him at least better than Jason Kapono, but that's just my opinion....you put Korver outside of Shaq & Wade & he would've been killing it....I think Korver is better than just a 3pt shooter, but I feel the same way about JJ Redick....both were superb college players at Creighton & Duke respectively & are scorers, not just shooters....whilst I don't think either of them are as good as say Mike Miller, they still can be very effective....and Korver is adding another parts to his game & now shoots a lot more midrange shots now, whereas formerly he shot 75% from outside the arc, now it's more like 50-50 & he shoots more FT's....

[TheMC5]

MC5, everyone is allowed to like a token player....I like Sean Marks, but that's because he was 1st Kiwi to make NBA (Kirk Penney being the other)....

although Kyle Korver is too good to be a token player....I rate him at least better than Jason Kapono, but that's just my opinion....you put Korver outside of Shaq & Wade & he would've been killing it....I think Korver is better than just a 3pt shooter, but I feel the same way about JJ Redick....both were superb college players at Creighton & Duke respectively & are scorers, not just shooters....whilst I don't think either of them are as good as say Mike Miller, they still can be very effective....and Korver is adding another parts to his game & now shoots a lot more midrange shots now, whereas formerly he shot 75% from outside the arc, now it's more like 50-50 & he shoots more FT's....

I'm not proposing that Kyle Korver is a bad player, just at best a slightly above average. He does some things really well (shoot, get steals), other things not so well (play defense, handle the ball). He can certainly be, and already is, a valuable player, and I agree that if teamed with Wade & Shaq he would have excelled. I'm not so convinced he would have scored many more points, since playing in Philly he's really only got Igoudala and Carney to compete with for shots, and neither of them really dominate the ball as much as Shaq/Wade. But he is still no more than an average player with 1 valuable skill: shooting.

You haven't seen anything, TheMC5, just read what people had to say about Milicic in the Detroit thread.

Go Kyle Korver!

What are you talking about?




Anyway, to get this thread back on track, I think Iverson goes #1 again in the '96 re-draft because the Sixers already had a young Jerry Stackhouse, who led all rookies in socring in 95-96, to play SG. Iverson and Bryant have pretty similar career numbers, Kobe has 3 rings, sure (all with Shaq), but Iverson has an MVP trophy. Kobe's definitely a better defender, but I don't think that would enough for the Sixers to pass on Iverson.

[JT_55]

What are you talking about?

This: http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic38455.php

Silas' Korver obsession doesn't look so big after all, eh?

[TheMC5]

What are you talking about?

This: http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic38455.php

Silas' Korver obsession doesn't look so big after all, eh?

I still don't really see the connection. There were very few people in that thread seriously claiming that Darko is a great player.

EDIT: Anyway, let us stop the thread-jacking and return to the discussion at hand: re-drafts!

[Andrew]

I'm guessing Dirk, Vince, Bibby, Pierce and Jamison are going to comprise the top five in some order with J-Will, Hughes, Davis, Lewis, Harrington, Bonzi, Alston and LaFrentz making up the rest of the lottery (again not necessarily in that order).

[Its_asdf]

What are you talking about?

This: http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic38455.php

Silas' Korver obsession doesn't look so big after all, eh?

You guys are all a bunch of haters. When Darko starts taking over the world, I will be be the last one laughing. Fools can not comprehend the wrath that Darko is capable of inflicting. He can wipe out armies in mere seconds. He's got X-Ray vision. He can cure cancer.

Praise the Darko!

[Silas]

I'd like to see him challenge Korver in a one on one. His buzz cut and strange yet child like face would weep and cower at the site of Kyle draining 3pt shot after 3pt shot. Then, Korver would slash the lane and make a poster out of him with a thunderous dunk.

[The X]

1998 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. LA Clippers: SG/SF- Vince Carter (picked #5)

I was faced with a dilemma. Dirk is the best player in this class. But the team picking first is the dread & ragtag Los Angeles Clippers. At this point, the Clippers were terrible & led by Lamond Murray, Ike Austin, Rodney Rogers & Brent Barry. This team needed an immediate impact player. This team needed someone to bring fans into the arena as their rivals had Shaq. This is a team that could've ruined Dirk's career before it even started. Vince was cocky enough & sure of himself enough to come in & take over this Clippers' team (if you can call it that) from day one. He was Hollywood enough to get paying celebs (outside of Malcolm & Billy Crystal) to come & watch the team play. If Nowitzki had of been a great rookie, which he was not, I'd have him going number 1, but the Clippers aren't the right situation for him. I painfully say that Vince goes number 1

2. Vancouver: PF/SF- Dirk Nowitzki (picked #9)

While the team already had Reef setting up their frontline of the future, the Grizzlies didn't have much talent & needed help everywhere, therefore they should take the best available talent in Dirk Nowitzki. They can afford to wait a year or two before he flourishes. A steal at this pick.

3. Denver: SF/SG- Paul Pierce (picked #10)

The Nuggets make the pick that they should've made originally. When their scouts said take the guy from Kansas, they didn't mean Raef friggin' LaFrentz, that's for sure. The Truth was better then & he is better now. A cinch at this pick.

4. Toronto: PG- Mike Bibby (picked #2)

The Raptors had traded away Mighty Mouse the previous year & were left with starting Dee Brown at PG, which is always a worry. Bibby was a stud coming out of college & would've formed a real life Kings' backcourt with Doug Christie. The Raptors already had a young promising swingman in Tracy McGrady who wasn't too far off being ready to start at SF. With Carter not in the picture, the Raptors could've potentially kept T-Mac as the team's franchise player. If you don't like Bibby at this pick, then proven college player Antawn Jamison would be only other viable option, but I think they should go PG at this spot.

5. Golden State: SF/PF- Antawn Jamison (picked #4)

Whilst the Warriors would've preferred Bibby, Jamison is still a good pick consolation prize at 5, & still helps the team on their frontline. The team can't wait a couple of years on Rashard Lewis, so Jamison goes at this spot.

6. Dallas: SF- Rashard Lewis (picked #32)

He's not Dirk, but he will develop into a pretty good scoring machine at SF in a couple of years. The Texan high school product would eventually become part of the Fins-Lewis-Nash trio that would excite the league with their scoring output but not have much post-season success.

7. Sacramento: PG- Jason Williams (picked #7)

I know there are better players left on the board, but I didn't have the heart to change this pick. The Kings needed a starting PG, but would importantly, they needed that jolt that would send them from the doormats of the West to its elite. Looking back, I don't think the Kings would want to change that path as it leads on to some great Kings' teams.

8. Philadelphia: SF/PF- Al Harrington (picked #25)

The 76ers were Iverson's team, but they needed some frontcourt help, specifically at the SF position. Whilst he wouldn't have helped as a rookie, he would make great strides in the following years & become a great complimentary player for Iverson to pass to if he had 4 guys on him.

9. Milwaukee: C/PF- Raef LaFrentz (picked #3)

This pick was a gimme. The Bucks were led by the likes of Ray Allen, Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson & Terrell Brandon. Problem was that their bigs were Tyrone Hill (worst All-Star ever, worse than Magloire), Armon Gilliam & Ervin "I'm Not Magic" Johnson. Raef LaFrentz would've been their starting centre from day one (provided his knee holds out).

10. Boston: SG/PG- Larry Hughes (picked #8)

I don't think the Celtics could've passed on Hughes at this point & he would've slotted straight into the starting lineup next to Walker, Mercer, Kenny Anderson & Battie. He's not the Truth, but still a nice pickup at 10.

11. Detroit: C- Brad Miller (undrafted)

Grant Hill, Jerry Stackhouse, Joe Dumars, Lindsey Hunter & Bison Dele (formerly Brian Williams I believe) was the core of the team. They needed some frontcourt help most of all, but another backcourt player wouldn't have hurt with Dumars nearing retirement. Given where this team was, an able big man would've helped. Brad Miller would go on to develop into a fringe All-Star player in his prime & fill some space in the middle for the Pistons.

12. Orlando: SG- Cuttino Mobley (picked #41)

Whilst the Magic already had Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson & Darrell Armstrong in the fold, Anderson was able to start at SF, so add in an NBA ready rookie in Cuttino Mobley, & you've got a very good backcourt rotation. The Magic are still kicking themselves that Brad Miller didn't fall one more spot, but gather the composure to take Mobley.

13. Orlando: SF/SG- Ricky Davis (picked #21)

I considered Olowokandi at this pick for a moment as the Magic badly needed another big man, but I'd frankly prefer Rony Seikaly to man the middle for another year or two than see the Kandi Man replace Shaq. Whilst they're stacked on the wings, this is a future pick as Davis is still a few years away from making an impact. By the time Nick Anderson & Penny are gone, Ricky Davis will be ready to take the reins & try to record a triple double by shooting at his own hoop.


Six toughest omissions: Michael Olowokandi (#1), Bonzi Wells (#11), Matt Harpring (#15), Ruben Patterson (#31), Rafer Alston (#39), Mike James (undrafted).

Six biggest flops: Michael Olowokandi (#1), Robert "Tractor" Traylor (#6), Keon Clark (picked #13), Mirsad Turkan (#18), Roshown McLeod (#20), Felipe Lopez (#24).


As you can see, quite a deep draft. Deeper than many might have expected. Shame I couldn't get Sean Marks in, but if I had of been re-drafting the entire 1st Round, I'd say he would've ended up in the late 1st Round. I'll probably post 1997 in the next day or two. Outside the top 2 or 3, the '97 draft is pretty dismal.

[Anthony15]

You're right about Denver, they needed a slashing forward like PP, Dale Ellis is nothing close to Pierce, but th Nuggets kept on sucking after drafting LaFrentz.

[The X]

You're right about Denver, they needed a slashing forward like PP, Dale Ellis is nothing close to Pierce, but th Nuggets kept on sucking after drafting LaFrentz.

I remember that draft like it was yesterday....I was a huge fan of Pierce in college & liked him more than say Carter (even during his rookie year when everyone bandwagoned Carter, I knew Pierce was better)....I knew Clips were going to screw up & take Olowokandi....idiots....I thought they should've gone with Bibby....can't fault the Mike Bibby pick at #2 to Vancouver....Denver, I automatically thought Pierce was a lock to go there....then they didn't take him, but they also passed on Jamison, Carter & Hughes, unbelievable....& took LaFrentz, disgusting....

[jonthefon]

Should've added Sean Marks to "tough omissions"

I think you got that one pretty right. A Lewis-Nash-Finley combo would've been just as good as long as Shard developed in the same way Dirk did.

I was surprised at the depth in this draft. I'd like to see how 97 pans out similarly.

[The X]

Should've added Sean Marks to "tough omissions"

I think you got that one pretty right. A Lewis-Nash-Finley combo would've been just as good as long as Shard developed in the same way Dirk did.

I was surprised at the depth in this draft. I'd like to see how 97 pans out similarly.

yeah, I thought about including him in my "tough omissions", but I didn't won't to ruin any integrity of the re-draft process, even if it is meant to be taken as a joke....

but yep, I was also surprised by the depth of the draft, shame '97 sucks

[Silas]

Wow, very cool and very good. I would only maybe argue one point. Should Brad Miller have gone higher than Raef LaFrentz? Its safe to say at this point in their careers Miller is more valuable, but I suppose for immediate impact's sake Raef might be the wiser choice.

But, Miller's passing and "pick and pop" shooting might fit better on a team like Milwaukee that had, as you said, Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson.

[TheMC5]

Ricky Davis...(will) try to record a triple double by shooting at his own hoop.

Greatest moment in professional sports history.

Ricky Davis is a supreme pimp.

[jonthefon]

Yeah, 1997 is disappointing...TD is a no-brainer at first, then T-Mac then Billups. Then a load of other players. Van Horn put up good figures at first.

[The X]

Wow, very cool and very good. I would only maybe argue one point. Should Brad Miller have gone higher than Raef LaFrentz? Its safe to say at this point in their careers Miller is more valuable, but I suppose for immediate impact's sake Raef might be the wiser choice.

But, Miller's passing and "pick and pop" shooting might fit better on a team like Milwaukee that had, as you said, Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson.

I thought about flipping Miller & LaFrentz, but it took Miller about 4 years to get rolling....Raef was an impact off the bat....the Bucks were ready to compete in the East now & I think a more immediate impact player was needed....that's the only reason Raef is in front of Brad Miller....what does everyone else think? Should Brad Miller get the nod by Milwaukee?!?

[benji]

Brad Miller was better from day one:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... 01&y2=1999

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ebr01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... era01.html

LaFrentz was hardly "impact off the bat" as he missed three-fourths of his rookie season. Miller didn't play in Charlotte because he was stuck behind Elden Campbell.

Also, LaFrentz always was and always will be a miscast Power Forward. He didn't even play Center at Kansas.

Another note: Mobley in the lottery? Seriously? Over Patterson and Wells? The greatest 6-5 post players since "God Damn" Dantley? Hell, even Al Harrington in the lottery, let alone top ten is pushing it. I'd rather take Maceo Baston and Patterson/Wells over those two anyday.

[Air Zoom Kobe I]

96 should be interesting also, tough choice if Philly would rather take AI or Kobe at 1.

I already know who I'm taking at #1, but you'll just have to wait & see

Money says it's nash, then Kobe, then Iverson, then Ray Allen.

[The X]

Brad Miller was better from day one:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... 01&y2=1999

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ebr01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... era01.html

LaFrentz was hardly "impact off the bat" as he missed three-fourths of his rookie season. Miller didn't play in Charlotte because he was stuck behind Elden Campbell.

Also, LaFrentz always was and always will be a miscast Power Forward. He didn't even play Center at Kansas.

Another note: Mobley in the lottery? Seriously? Over Patterson and Wells? The greatest 6-5 post players since "God Damn" Dantley? Hell, even Al Harrington in the lottery, let alone top ten is pushing it. I'd rather take Maceo Baston and Patterson/Wells over those two anyday.

I've bookmarked that player comparison thing, it will come in handy for future pre-drafts. Perhaps those 2 can be flipped. I guess even when Miller was not playing a lot, there was potential there. LaFrentz got to play right away & didn't show too much. So yeah, in hindsight, I'll flip those 2.

I think Wells & Patterson just missed the cut due to character issues. Not talent. They just missed out. I don't mind Mobley though & I'll keep him at that spot. As for Al, what does everyone else think of him?

[jonthefon]

Nash similarly took a while to get going. He had to take a lot out of Jason Kidd's and Kevin Johnson's books

[Lamrock]

Hmm... very good re-draft. However, Olowokandi had 2 near-All-Star years (at least 2007 Eddy Curry caliber) and I would actually put him in Raef's place.

Otherwise a great re-draft.

I kind of miss Bibby, I loved those 2001-2004 Kings, and it sucked when they were heartbroken in back-to-back years, then slowly began to suck. The window for Mike making the All-Star team may be closed, which is a shame.

[Andrew]

11/13 isn't bad, I picked your top five though not in order. I forgot about Brad Miller, I'd take him over Wells or Alston.

[benji]

Hmm... very good re-draft. However, Olowokandi had 2 near-All-Star years (at least 2007 Eddy Curry caliber) and I would actually put him in Raef's place.

You can't be serious. Michael Olowokandi has never been close to even near-All-Star years, let alone starter quality years. I assume you're talking about 2001-02 and 2002-03. His PER was 42nd and 59th at center those two years. His shooting percentage was 56th and 61st. Rebounding 26th and 47th. Turnover rate 46th and 54th. (Curry by comparison was 6th in PER last season for centers.)