Lakers Thread

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby dare on Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:43 pm

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:05 pm

Credit where its due and congrats to Kobe, he's joined some elite company there.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:14 pm

Good. That's awesome.

I have a question. How many made and missed baskets to acheive that? How would that rank among his peers?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:20 pm

As of this post, 10,465 field goals on 23,071 attempts, in 1180 games (and counting). The obvious comparison, MJ, finished his career with 32,292 points, making 12,192 of 24,537 attempts in 1072 games.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Stress Fracture on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:33 pm

On rough estimates, Kobe has hit 35-40% of his career shots while MJ hit almost 50%.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:34 pm

Oh Come on. Give Kobe a break. How about try comparing turnovers and other stats to achieve that fantastic milestone, u sick haters.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Kobe is also notably the youngest to score 30,000. The fact he made his debut at 18 certainly helps though, with MJ actually reaching the 30,000 mark in 220 fewer games.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Brawn Shadley on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:28 am

Andrew wrote:Kobe is also notably the youngest to score 30,000. The fact he made his debut at 18 certainly helps though, with MJ actually reaching the 30,000 mark in 220 fewer games.

Kobe would have reached it earlier if he was a starter for the first two years of his career. Hater.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby rise on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:25 am

It's an accomplishment, no doubt, but he's certainly the most inefficient scorer to reach 30,000.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby stereoxide on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:42 pm

rise wrote:It's an accomplishment, no doubt, but he's certainly the most inefficient scorer to reach 30,000.

Well they are only 5. 2 Centers, 1 Power Forward, who plays close to the basket. And a Shooting Guard that is arguably the greatest player to play the game.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby benji on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:25 pm

rise wrote:It's an accomplishment, no doubt, but he's certainly the most inefficient scorer to reach 30,000.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/871 ... obe-assist
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Brawn Shadley on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:00 pm

stereoxide wrote:a Shooting Guard that is arguably the greatest player to play the game.

Kobe indeed is. :applaud:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:02 pm

Uh oh. Disco stu started sucking something other than his thumb.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby stereoxide on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:26 am

shadowgrin wrote:
stereoxide wrote:a Shooting Guard that is arguably the greatest player to play the game. And Kobe.

Kobe indeed is. :applaud:

Sorry about that.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby koberulz on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:53 am

benji wrote:
rise wrote:It's an accomplishment, no doubt, but he's certainly the most inefficient scorer to reach 30,000.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/871 ... obe-assist

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Brawn Shadley on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:26 pm

Way to miss the point.

But the same things that make basketball so captivating to watch also make it more difficult to measure and to analyze.

Basketball is very different from baseball, but in the basketball analytics world, too often we treat our sport as if it were baseball;

But, unfortunately, it's not that simple.

basketball outcomes exhibit sensitive dependence on previous environmental conditions, yet the analytical "baseball-ification" of our fluid sport too often neglects this basic tenet of basketball ecology. We disregard too much environmental context. As an illustration of how this baseball-ification of basketball ecology can hinder our understanding, consider the Kobe Assist, those missed shots that are more like accidental passes that lead to put-backs.

What happens after a missed shot is very important and directly related to the same set of environmental conditions on the floor that provided both the original context for the shot and the influential factors that determine what happens next.

But just like shot outcomes, rebounding outcomes also depend on who is shooting, where they are shooting from, the stratagems of each team, the rebounding abilities of each player, and the precise spatial configuration of the 10 players on the court; as a result, there is a less apparent tenet of basketball: All missed shots are not created equal, and their DNA is inherently dependent upon their ancestral events — some missed shots are good for the defensive team, and some benefit the offense, as many misses actually extend offensive possessions with the proverbial "fresh 24."

We fail to understand which shooting environments are most or least conducive to offensive rebounds.

Every time a shot is released, a potential change of possession gets its wings. An additional reason close-range shots are more effective than mid-range shots is that, when missed, they are rebounded by the offensive team at much higher rates; in other words, they kill possessions at lower rates than jump shots.

Although Kobe Assists are admittedly a silly reminder of the natural connectedness of basketball plays, they also provide a real diagnostic of how well offensive ecosystems cooperate.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Spree#8 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:41 am

Of course Kobe has the most "Kobe assists". He throws up a shitload of bricks and the Lakers are one of the best offensive rebounding teams.

As another example, consider the cases of Elton Brand and Derrick Rose. Conventional wisdom suggests Elton Brand is a better mid-range shooter than Derrick Rose. Over the last two seasons Elton Brand made 381 out of his 782 mid-range jumpers (49 percent). This is really impressive because as a whole the league shoots only 38 percent from mid-range. During the same window, Derrick Rose made 294 of his 724 mid-range shots (41 percent), which isn't bad, but it's much closer to average than to elite. Again, field goal percentage does not tell the whole story. The Bulls rebounded 152 of Rose's 430 misses (35 percent), while the Sixers rebounded only 63 of Brand's 401 misses (16 percent). Looking at these shots through another lens, 62 percent of Rose's mid-range shots result in points or a fresh possession for the Bulls. For Brand, 57 percent of his mid-range shots result in points or a fresh possession for the Sixers. Which is better?

The Rose-Brand comparison suggests that by appending offensive rebounding rate or put-back rate to field goal percentage we can more accurately assess a shot's true value. Every time a shot is released, a potential change of possession gets its wings. An additional reason close-range shots are more effective than mid-range shots is that, when missed, they are rebounded by the offensive team at much higher rates; in other words, they kill possessions at lower rates than jump shots.

How about looking at ORB% of the Bulls and the Sixers to help you understand why so many more of Rose's misses were rebounded by his teammates?

All in all, I'm very impressed - this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Either this is just a troll article or the writer needs to take his head out of his ass - it's easier to properly analyze basketball (or anything, for that matter) that way.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:05 pm

What a disaster. Kobe was awful despite getting his numbers. He kept losing Gordon Hayward on defense and was non-existent on board. Ball hogging as usual and that left his teammates nothing to do but shoot threes or grab boards(which Hill did good). No wonder the Lakers take enormous amount of threes. As been said before, he needs to try to faciliate a bit. We know he ain't never been one but he needs to put the big boy's pants on and adjust.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby rise on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:20 pm

NovU wrote:What a disaster. Kobe was awful despite getting his numbers. He kept losing Gordon Hayward on defense and was non-existent on board. Ball hogging as usual and that left his teammates nothing to do but shoot threes or grab boards(which Hill did good). No wonder the Lakers take enormous amount of threes. As been said before, he needs to try to faciliate a bit. We know he ain't never been one but he needs to put the big boy's pants on and adjust.
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Kobe's been playing like absolute garbage for the majority of this season despite the numbers (lucky for me, I still got a value pick at #10 in my fantasy draft). But it's not entirely his fault. The team has been hurt and there's no chemistry. Plus they are starting Chris Duhon. Chris Fucking Duhon.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Nash_Bryant on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:33 pm

Should have hired the right coach. Not the scumbag D'antoni. They resemble last year's NY Knicks. I hate it when the team loses. I really don't like the way they're playing.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby homicide1550 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:45 pm

Man. I'm a big Kobe fan but gotta admit he's been ball hogging all season long. Looks like he's really trying to move up on that all-time scoring list. :facepalm:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:50 pm

30,000 Points From Nowhere: Is Kobe Bryant Hurting The Lakers?

More alarming is that after the loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Lakers are 1-8 when Kobe scores more than 30 points. To put that into perspective, they are 8-3 when he scores, and so shoots, less. An 8 and 3 record is a 72.7 winning percentage, .5 better than Miami’s at 13-5 and would put them at fourth in the Western Conference―a better reflection of the level of talent playing for the 16-time champions.

While not all of the team’s woes can be pinned to the Black Mamba, the numbers do indicate a trend that should be looked into. People have blamed Pau Gasol, the Princeton offense, a lack of Steve Nash, Jim Buss’ snub of supposed rival Phil Jackson, and now the offense-obsessed D’Antoni system for L.A.’s woes, but have not given any interest to the 1-8 emergency flare. Given Kobe’s recent milestone, a hyper-efficient year, MVP consideration, and the league’s 11-best +/- output at a plus-131, no one has looked at Bryant’s contribution to a disappointing season thus far.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby koberulz on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:05 pm

The question, as raised earlier, is whether Bryant shoots the team out of games or simply has to take more of the offensive load when his teammates aren't playing well.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Brawn Shadley on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:31 am

Spree#8 wrote:Of course Kobe has the most "Kobe assists". He throws up a shitload of bricks and the Lakers are one of the best offensive rebounding teams.

As another example, consider the cases of Elton Brand and Derrick Rose. Conventional wisdom suggests Elton Brand is a better mid-range shooter than Derrick Rose. Over the last two seasons Elton Brand made 381 out of his 782 mid-range jumpers (49 percent). This is really impressive because as a whole the league shoots only 38 percent from mid-range. During the same window, Derrick Rose made 294 of his 724 mid-range shots (41 percent), which isn't bad, but it's much closer to average than to elite. Again, field goal percentage does not tell the whole story. The Bulls rebounded 152 of Rose's 430 misses (35 percent), while the Sixers rebounded only 63 of Brand's 401 misses (16 percent). Looking at these shots through another lens, 62 percent of Rose's mid-range shots result in points or a fresh possession for the Bulls. For Brand, 57 percent of his mid-range shots result in points or a fresh possession for the Sixers. Which is better?

The Rose-Brand comparison suggests that by appending offensive rebounding rate or put-back rate to field goal percentage we can more accurately assess a shot's true value. Every time a shot is released, a potential change of possession gets its wings. An additional reason close-range shots are more effective than mid-range shots is that, when missed, they are rebounded by the offensive team at much higher rates; in other words, they kill possessions at lower rates than jump shots.

How about looking at ORB% of the Bulls and the Sixers to help you understand why so many more of Rose's misses were rebounded by his teammates?

All in all, I'm very impressed - this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Either this is just a troll article or the writer needs to take his head out of his ass - it's easier to properly analyze basketball (or anything, for that matter) that way.

You're way worse than koberulz in missing the point.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:54 am


Like the article says, it is at least something to think about. Ppl been pointing fingers at every little things to princeton offence and gasol. True or not, whatz for sure is that Kobe's scoring and all that ball hogging isnt helping at all. Itz a legit question just like ppl questioning dantoni's ability to coach.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:14 pm

Since Gasol and Nash are out at the moment and that obviously doesn't help matters, it'll be interesting to see whether having the team at full strength makes much of a difference. I imagine it'll get them over .500 at the very least, but despite the star power I'm not sure that they're a good enough fit or truly equipped to overcome a team like the Spurs, Thunder, or indeed the Grizzlies if they keep up their strong play. While there's a long way to go yet, their slow start has put them in a hole early as far as getting a higher seed and home court advantage in the Playoffs. Seeing how poorly they've fared on the road so far this year, that doesn't bode well.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby homicide1550 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:57 pm

So Kobe scored 42 points and Dwight had 19 and 20. But still, the Lakers lost to the Cavaliers. Hmmm.. What the eff is wrong in LA?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Bruce on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:05 pm

Kevin Love is talking smack about his team right now. Now I know what I want for Christmas. Hahaha


homicide1550 wrote:So Kobe scored 42 points and Dwight had 19 and 20. But still, the Lakers lost to the Cavaliers. Hmmm.. What the eff is wrong in LA?


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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby dare on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm

Our starting point guard is Duhon the backup is Morris... I miss Farmar :cry:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Stress Fracture on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:08 pm

Kobe's 30 points in a game is a jinx right now.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:47 am

Jackal wrote:Moronic and painful to watch. You just know what's coming each and every time. The one night their shooters are on they have success, the nights they aren't they lose. Kobe gets his 30, Howard gets his 20-10 and they lose in both cases. "Ball will find energy."


Magic Johnson wrote:"His system doesn't fit the talent that the Lakers have," Johnson told reporters at Dodger Stadium. "You can't run with this team. Where are the runners? You got one dude who can get up and down the court and that's Kobe (Bryant). Ron (Metta World Peace), love him, but he's slow. Both of our big men, not fast guys. (D'Antoni) has got to say, `Maybe I should scale it back."'


They want to have showtime-esque offense, a fast paced one...but you do that when you have the personnel for it, not just because you want it. These old bastards can't keep that up all season long..


"He is the best passing big man in the game, but you have him at the free-throw line" waiting for the ball, Johnson said. "That makes no sense. That's not his game. His game is catch it on the low block, face his man, one dribble left or right, he's in the cup, nice hook, nice move because he's got great moves."


You preach it Magic!

Really, how did this moron become head coach of such a storied franchise with his gimmick basketball tactics? He has NO clue how to use post players.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:22 am

With Phil Jackson out of the picture for the baffling and petty reasons discussed before, he was the guy who had Kobe's personal thumbs up.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:31 am

Screw Kobe Bryant and his thumbs up. D'Antoni being his idol and all is great but the moron seriously doesn't know how to utilize post players.

It's a fucking shame watching Gasol being wasted when you know how god damn talented the guy is...then you've got a moron who thinks he's the shit and decides nah, you don't fit so let's just sit you down and play Antawn freaking Jamison. :?

I'm already pissed off the league hardly has any good post players anymore with the small ball & run and gun shit, top it off with them totally doing away with the center position for the All Star ballot and then you've got two awesome bigs & your coach is all like "klol, wtf do I do with you? Can you shoot the three? :mrgreen: "

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jeffx on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:51 am

Great coaches adjust their system to fit the talent they have, like Pat Riley did when he came to NY. As we've seen, Pringles can only coach HIS type of players.

Like Jackal said, he's a gimmick coach like Don Nelson.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby dare on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:37 am

Again I blame Jim Buss here and his ego.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:58 am

http://www.hoopsworld.com/dwight-howard ... 0-percent/

He never looked really that good this season, maybe things will get better...
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:48 am

Lol. Carmelo 22 points in the first quarter against Kobe and Lakers. Defense hard fail. 41 points first quarter for the Knicks.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby dare on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:18 pm

Having some doubts if this team can beat the Wizards tomorrow :(
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby mrmoves20 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:56 pm

dare wrote:Having some doubts if this team can beat the Wizards tomorrow :(

Same as me, I'm just not sure if the Lakers can beat them, they can if they play the same kind of game they had in the 2nd half against the Knicks.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:03 pm

Trade Gasol for Channing Frye, Howard for Rasheed Wallace and let these guys stand around the perimeter and hoist shots. No point in wasting two terrific big men in this system. Howard touched the ball twice in the first quarter. Twice.

Then the clown put in d-leaguer Robert motherfucking Sacre ahead of the always hustling Jordan Hill.

Calling it a season now, this guy isn't going to do shit for LA. They might end up with a decent record..but they aren't gonna win a damn thing with this fool at the helm of it all.

What a waste of talent.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:37 pm

Princeston Offense Mike Brown actually wasn't doing too bad considering how the Lakers are right now.

The record reminds me of last season's Knicks before the Linsanity. IIRC, the Knicks were 9-15 before evening things up at 15-15 with surging Lin. Perhaps, the Lakers can do the same with Nash. We'll see.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:47 pm

Nash's return should help out offensively, enough to get them to a respectable record before the regular season is over and secure a Playoff appearance. Of course, it's not going to change the fact that defense is not D'Antoni's strong suit and Nash himself is far from a stellar defender, indeed becoming something of a liability given some of the quick guards in the Western Conference right now.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Brawn Shadley on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:49 pm

Deal is Mike Brown isn't to blame for that unsuitable Princeton offense the Lakers had.
It was management's (Kupchak? Buss?) call to add Eddie Jordan as offensive coordinator.
Mike Brown already had John Kuester as his offensive assistant the way they did in Cleveland then before Kuester became head coach of the Pistons.
So Mike Brown got fired while Eddie Jordan still stays as an assistant coach. Someone is trying to save face with hiring Eddie Jordan in the first place.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:09 pm

And now he just sits back there staring out into space.

It's more enjoyable than watching this perimeter trigger happy offense. Inside out? There's an inside??
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Nash_Bryant on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:01 am

D'antoni sucks. When will nash return. I also miss my 3-pt shooter Steve Blake. BTW, we are starting Duhon again. :cheeky:

I'm doubting these Laker team starting right now. I counted off the first 20 games as adjustment period, but the moron D'antoni just fucked us all.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby koberulz on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:21 am

shadowgrin wrote:Deal is Mike Brown isn't to blame for that unsuitable Princeton offense the Lakers had.
It was management's (Kupchak? Buss?) call to add Eddie Jordan as offensive coordinator.
Mike Brown already had John Kuester as his offensive assistant the way they did in Cleveland then before Kuester became head coach of the Pistons.
So Mike Brown got fired while Eddie Jordan still stays as an assistant coach. Someone is trying to save face with hiring Eddie Jordan in the first place.

Not to mention the fact that under Brown, the Lakers were top-three in the league in offensive efficiency, and last in the league in defensive efficiency (IIRC). Why someone thought bringing in a coach who has no idea what defense even is, much less how it's player, would fix their problems is beyond me.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby rise on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:21 am

Do the Lakers expect Dwight to stay when he gets the same amount of shots in a half as Sacre and Morris, and less than Devin Ebanks and Metta and then gets blamed for their troubles?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dc311 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:54 pm

Kobe: It Isn't Fair To Blame D'Antoni For Lakers' Struggles

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... _Struggles

It’s not fair,” said Bryant. “It’s tough. I mean he’s thrown in a situation where it’s just tough.



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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Stress Fracture on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:07 pm

Kobe just wanted him to be out. :cheeky:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:47 am

so any early guesses where dwight howard plays next year?

Jackal wrote: Really, how did this moron become head coach of such a storied franchise with his gimmick basketball tactics?

Jeffx wrote:he's a gimmick coach like Don Nelson.

you want to kick a man when he's down? or knock him for not installing an offense to fit his guys? ok. Did you guys factor in D'Antoni didn't have a presesaon/offseason with the team? or that he was hired to incorporate his "gimmick" tactics which by the way lead to 5 straight 50+ win seasons.

oh. and don't put him in the same category as Don Nelson.

Don Nelson has coached the Most Wins in NBA History
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