NBA's 65 Greatest Players

[benji]

It's been 15 years since the introduction of this list: http://www.nba.com/history/players/50greatest.html

So we have 15 players we can add to the list, also can revise the list and kick some people off. Who do you add? Who do you replace?

Clear adds are probably: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzki
Also to add: LeBron James, Steve Nash, Alonzo Mourning, Dwyane Wade
Likely: Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul
Worthy: Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, Gary Payton

Snubs from the past: Adrian Dantley, Dennis Rodman, Bob McAdoo, Dominique Wilkins

To boot: Dave Bing, Lenny Wilkens, James Worthy

Where does Bill Walton stand?

There's also the coaches to revisit: http://www.nba.com/history/top_10_coaches.html
Most likely to boot: Bill Fitch, John Kundla, Jack Rasmay

And the teams: http://www.nba.com/history/toptenteams_index.html
Most likely to boot: 1989 Pistons

[Andrew]

Interesting situation with Walton, he's perhaps still a little underappreciated as a player because he was so limited by injuries for much of his career and that's what a lot of people seem to focus on. I think you could argue that he's still a top 100 player in the history of the league, but his NBA resume is a little thin compared to some of the great players that have come along and established impressive legacies in the past couple of decades. For that reason, I'd have to reluctantly drop him from the top 65; probably not too far off making the cut, but as I said still in the top 100 at the very least.

I'll go with:

IN

Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Dominique Wilkins, Adrian Dantley, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce, Dennis Rodman, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Alonzo Mourning, Allen Iverson, Chris Webber, Kevin Durant, Chauncey Billups, Ray Allen, Joe Dumars, Reggie Miller, Dennis Johnson, Dwight Howard. (24)

OUT

Bill Walton, Nate Thurmond, Billy Cunningham, Bill Sharman, Hal Greer, Paul Arizin, Dave DeBusschere, Dave Bing, Lenny Wilkens (9)

It's a tough call with some of them and I kind of feel like I'm penalising the earlier generations of players a little too much, but I think their individual brilliance and career accomplishments have since been eclipsed by some of the players that have come along in the past couple of decades. Add Bernard King to those nine though and I think you've basically got the top 75.

[benji]

Forgot about Reggie, just assumed he was on the team and didn't check.

I don't think Dennis Johnson is good enough to be anywhere near the list. Never landed in the top ten of the league in any stat of note.

Bernard King has a similar problem as Walton, he only basically has about four or five seasons worth talking about. And even still he was only truly great in one season. Only finished in the top ten in PER twice, OWS twice, WS once and WS/48 once. Just jacked a bunch of shots for a crappy Knicks team and suddenly he's been in all these lists for the last 25 years. Carmelo's done the same thing AND done it for a good Denver team. Aguirre did the same thing for some solid Mavericks teams.

Billy Cunningham was probably as good as or better than Webber. Both got derailed by injuries.

Can't take Dumars as a top fifty player either. Like in Johnson's case. We have to be talking about guys who were stars, multiple years as one of the ten best players or so. Or with some freak dominance like Rodman.

Especially with Lainer and Gilmore sitting out there. Plus Bellamy and McAdoo.

EDIT: Actually thought of a massive missing player, Neil Johnston. He was the best player in the game between Mikan and Pettit. And the best offensive player in league history until Wilt debuted.

More names to throw into the fray: Marquis Johnson, Sidney Moncrief, Pau Gasol, Larry Nance, Shawn Marion, Dan Issel.

EDIT2: The biggest glaring missing team and really laughable that they aren't are on there are the 1970-71 Bucks. I would definitely throw the 1989 Pistons off the list for them. And I go back and forth on throwing off the 1970 Knicks for the 2008 Celtics. I could be convinced to kick off the 1992 Bulls instead considering they have the same Jordan-Pippen-Jackson trio as the 1996 Bulls even though they are probably one of the five best teams on the list.

EDIT3: Kicking off Bill Fitch for Gregg Popovich is a must. I'd probably dump Ramsay and Kundla for Jerry Sloan and Rick Adelman.

Wilkens, Holzman and Nelson are on notice. K.C. Jones probably should bump Wilkens.

[Andrew]

I wouldn't put Dumars top 50 either, but I think he could crack top 65.

[benji]

Was looking at the list for the fifty, meant sixty-five.

[Sauru]

where does Dino Radja fit into this greatest of all time list?

[benji]

where does Dino Radja fit into this greatest of all time list?

I'm going to try and make a raw list instead of trying to kick people off and add more. So I'll let you know.

[Sauru]

Ok cool, appreciate it man

[benji]

Sadly, it appears Dino doesn't make it. But this is just my first draft. Basically I looked at the top 100 players from various lists on B-R, then narrowed it down to the top 65-ish. I really wound up with like 75 guys as my "solid list", and then started arbitrarily cutting them. Making up excuses.

Including one player I cut because he didn't have a picture on B-R.

Centers:
Artis Gilmore
Bill Russell
Bob Lanier
Dan Issel
David Robinson
Dwight Howard
George Mikan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone
Neil Johnston
Patrick Ewing
Robert Parish
Shaquille O'Neal
Walt Bellamy
Wes Unseld
Willis Reed
Wilt Chamberlain

Forwards:
Adrian Dantley
Bailey Howell
Bob Pettit
Charles Barkley
Chet Walker
Dennis Rodman
Dirk Nowitzki
Dolph Schayes
Dominique Wilkens
Elgin Baylor
Elvin Hayes
Jerry Lucas
John Havlicek
Julius Erving
Karl Malone
Kevin Garnett
Kevin McHale
Larry Bird
Larry Nance
LeBron James
Marques Johnson
Pau Gasol
Paul Pierce
Rick Barry
Scottie Pippen
Shawn Marion
Tim Duncan

Guards:
Bob Cousy
Chauncey Billups
Chris Paul
Clyde Drexler
Dwyane Wade
Gary Payton
George Gervin
Isiah Thomas
Jerry West
John Stockton
Kobe Bryant
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Oscar Robertson
Pete Maravich
Reggie Miller
Sam Jones
Sidney Moncrief
Steve Nash
Walt Frazier

[Mavs4Life]

Andrew got everyone I'ld add, though I'ld keep Walton for Webber, just for the ring.

[Andrew]

I can see where you're coming from, Walton's a tough omission. As I said, I think he's a bit underappreciated, with his success and talent being overshadowed by the injuries that plagued his career.