Record setting night at the garden

[Doobie]

he has 52 points with 5 minutes left.Michael Jordan holds the record for most points by an opponent in MSG with 55, Kobe will probably surpass him today.

Edit: Kobe just surpassed it with a FT. He now has the most points scored by an opponent in MSG. Most ever in MSG is Bernard King with 60, Kobe has 57 so he has a legit shot at that. 3 minutes left.

Edit: Kobe has 59 now and he's going to shoot 2 FT. He will most likely pass Bernard King's 60. Knicks got blown out but a huge night in MSG history. My congratulations go out to Kobe.

Edit: Kobe has now set the record with 61. 2 minutes left and Kobe will sit. 61 pts, including 20/20 from the line, I have it recorded in my DVR. I'm happy yet sad.

[Andrew]

It's a tremendous accomplishment and I believe it's also the record for most points scored without grabbing a rebound (I guess somewhat of a dubious distinction there) but it also leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, not just because Michael Jordan is my all-time favourite player but the way it came about. The game was in hand long well before Kobe got the record yet he remained in the game for an opportunity to get the points he needed. Back in the 90s, Phil Jackson had the decency to pull Jordan from the game and clear the bench in those situations while preaching team success over individual goals, yet now he's comfortable leaving a player in to chase records. It just goes to show how much the Zen Master has sold out.

But congrats to Kobe. No Bynum, no problem.

[Doobie]

On another note Kobe and Pau combined for 92 points. That is almost 3/4 of the whole team's points. Since I saw the game, I would say that Gasol scored the majority of his points while Kobe was on the bench. The first quarter was mainly Kobe/Gasol together.

[Andrew]

Indeed, one of those rare times a player having a 31, 14 and 5 night doesn't immediately grab your attention.

[The X]

he has 52 points with 5 minutes left.Michael Jordan holds the record for most points by an opponent in MSG with 55, Kobe will probably surpass him today.

Edit: Kobe just surpassed it with a FT. He now has the most points scored by an opponent in MSG. Most ever in MSG is Bernard King with 60, Kobe has 57 so he has a legit shot at that. 3 minutes left.

Edit: Kobe has 59 now and he's going to shoot 2 FT. He will most likely pass Bernard King's 60. Knicks got blown out but a huge night in MSG history. My congratulations go out to Kobe.

Edit: Kobe has now set the record with 61. 2 minutes left and Kobe will sit. 61 pts, including 20/20 from the line, I have it recorded in my DVR. I'm happy yet sad.

is that because it was Bernard King's long-standing record that he broke?!?

[Fresh8]

Back in the 90s, Phil Jackson had the decency to pull Jordan from the game and clear the bench in those situations while preaching team success over individual goals, yet now he's comfortable leaving a player in to chase records. It just goes to show how much the Zen Master has sold out.

I remember when Kobe had 62 by third quarter against Dallas and Kobe had to sit out the whole fourth quarter. Was this game close or was it a tight contest? Doobie, perhaps you can shed some light on this. Maybe Jax is trying to send a message to the rest of the League that Kobe Bryant can still play at this level at any time so Bynum will be missed but won't hurt the team as much as everyone says?

[The X]

Sit, I don't think Jackson was trying to send any message....probably just making sure game was iced before pulling him....

[NovU]

It's a tremendous accomplishment and I believe it's also the record for most points scored without grabbing a rebound (I guess somewhat of a dubious distinction there) but it also leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, not just because Michael Jordan is my all-time favourite player but the way it came about. The game was in hand long well before Kobe got the record yet he remained in the game for an opportunity to get the points he needed. Back in the 90s, Phil Jackson had the decency to pull Jordan from the game and clear the bench in those situations while preaching team success over individual goals, yet now he's comfortable leaving a player in to chase records. It just goes to show how much the Zen Master has sold out.

But congrats to Kobe. No Bynum, no problem.

Indeed.

No rebound was also bit surprising.

I think Kobe always has been greedy about achievements like tonight's and I don't think that is something Phil wants to interfere with since he respects Kobe's will and wants the best out of their relationship. Well, I always thought that was part of reason why him and Shaq couldn't get along and one had to leave. However, he does have skill sets to break some amazing records on any given night and that is amazing.

[Doobie]

The X I'm happy that Kobe got that achievment, but I'm sad that the Lakers dominated the Knicks and yes, cause he broke Bernard King's record.

Sit It was about a 10 point game when Jackson put Kobe back in the game with around 7 minutes left. That's understandable, but then it was around an 18 point lead for the Lakers with 4 minutes left in the game. He had a few opportunities to sit Kobe but as soon as Kobe hit 61, he sat him the next deadball with about 2 minutes left. So in other words he could've sat Kobe with 4 minutes left and Kobe had around 54 pts at the time.

[Andrew]

Sit, I don't think Jackson was trying to send any message....probably just making sure game was iced before pulling him....

But that's the thing, it was yet he remained in the game. As I said, I won't pretend that I'm not sorry to see one of Jordan's records beaten (and Bernard King's for that matter) but given the situation (Doobie's description is a good summary) there's really no question he left him in the game to chase that record and once upon a time, Jax never would have done that.

[BIG GREEN]

Three assists and 0 rebounds huh? Was he trying to help his team or make himself look better? I wonder.

[Jackal]

He was trying to win and look good doing it.

[sucram]

you guys are right, phil and kobe are assholes

[Andrew]

I wouldn't go that far but I would suggest Jax has sold out on some of his principles or to be more diplomatic about it, he's had an interesting change of heart.

[Clueminati017]

On ESPN NBA Nation. There was a question where it asked. Who had a better performance at the Garden between Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant? All votes were for MJ. Which they made a valid point where not only both players changed their numbers in their NBA career, but Michael Jordan's performance was better than Kobe Bryant. With the game winning assist to Bill Wennington, his FG% was a little bit better than Kobe, and plus that season was his return to the NBA.

[Doobie]

On ESPN NBA Nation. There was a question where it asked. Who had a better performance at the Garden between Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant? All votes were for MJ. Which they made a valid point where not only both players changed their numbers in their NBA career, but Michael Jordan's performance was better than Kobe Bryant. With the game winning assist to Bill Wennington, his FG% was a little bit better than Kobe, and plus that season was his return to the NBA.

To add to this MJ did it against a better Knicks team. This current team is mediocre, back in the 90's the Knicks were actually a force.

[Andrew]

On ESPN NBA Nation. There was a question where it asked. Who had a better performance at the Garden between Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant? All votes were for MJ. Which they made a valid point where not only both players changed their numbers in their NBA career, but Michael Jordan's performance was better than Kobe Bryant. With the game winning assist to Bill Wennington, his FG% was a little bit better than Kobe, and plus that season was his return to the NBA.

To add to this MJ did it against a better Knicks team. This current team is mediocre, back in the 90's the Knicks were actually a force.

Particularly at the defensive end. That said, I certainly don't want to take away from Kobe's performance because 61 points is no mean feat, I just thought it was a bit cheap the way he was left in there when the game was under control and a stark contrast to the philosophy and principles Phil Jackson once seemed to adhere to.

[Palos]

On ESPN NBA Nation. There was a question where it asked. Who had a better performance at the Garden between Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant? All votes were for MJ. Which they made a valid point where not only both players changed their numbers in their NBA career, but Michael Jordan's performance was better than Kobe Bryant. With the game winning assist to Bill Wennington, his FG% was a little bit better than Kobe, and plus that season was his return to the NBA.

To add to this MJ did it against a better Knicks team. This current team is mediocre, back in the 90's the Knicks were actually a force.

Particularly at the defensive end. That said, I certainly don't want to take away from Kobe's performance because 61 points is no mean feat, I just thought it was a bit cheap the way he was left in there when the game was under control and a stark contrast to the philosophy and principles Phil Jackson once seemed to adhere to.

The problem was before MJ when he was having a "record setting night" Phil will put him into bench especially when the game is already decided but now I was shocked and dissapointed for this kind of so-called recored setting at the MSG. Kobe was still there with no reason at all. The game was decided so what does Phil trying to imply? Did he intentionally put Kobe there to break the record by Michael on 1995? I mean its so simple just like holding the ball with less than 24 secs on the clock for sportsmanship sake. I mean Kobe is a good player, one of the best but to have this kind of thing is totally disappointing.

[Fresh8]

Well, if it makes Doobie feel better, the record shouldn't have fallen because one of Kobe's shots was a huge travel... he lifted his pivot foot before shooting. Well, that's what I think. I'm pretty sure it's a travel.

[Andrew]

The problem was before MJ when he was having a "record setting night" Phil will put him into bench especially when the game is already decided but now I was shocked and dissapointed for this kind of so-called recored setting at the MSG. Kobe was still there with no reason at all. The game was decided so what does Phil trying to imply? Did he intentionally put Kobe there to break the record by Michael on 1995? I mean its so simple just like holding the ball with less than 24 secs on the clock for sportsmanship sake. I mean Kobe is a good player, one of the best but to have this kind of thing is totally disappointing.

It would've been nice if he could have achieved the record more "organically" so to speak rather than padding his stats in a game that was sealed. I don't think Jax left him in there to get the record to spite Jordan, who I'm sure he still has a lot of respect for and is probably still on good terms with but he sure has changed his attitude towards these matters.

[NovU]

I don't think Jackson is much to blame here. Let's face it. For Kobe and most of players in this era consider personal achievements rather more important compare to those in MJ's era. Kobe's 81 points performance would have never been possible if he was sat in grabage time anyways. Kobe is Kobe who will always chase after these kind of achievements regardless of what coaches he plays for. I'm sure Jackson also would like to sit players and give his players much needed rest if possible, but for the team and its owners as well as for the fans, Kobe's achievements is something to seek for, so I somewhat think Jackson would want to avoid any forms of confrontation with any parties especially with Kobe whom I think is spoiled to the max although he has matured a lot.

[Andrew]

But he still has the power to make that call. He had plenty of opportunities to pull Kobe before the record was broken/set with the game in the bag but he chose not to. And if Kobe had complained about it, then it would be obvious how much he's still motivated by personal glory and that he's still very much the same player he was a few years ago. That Jackson has changed his mind on these matters, if not outright allowing or condoning it then certainly being comfortable enough in letting it happen, is an indication that he's sold out on the principles that had people hailing him as a genius and the "Zen Master" in the first place.

[Jackal]

Maybe you're looking it at as a fan of Phil Jackson who coached the Bulls instead of just looking at is as him being Phil Jackson (without being coach of the Bulls.)

Maybe he knows exactly what he's doing, players are different, maybe he chose to pull Jordan in such situations because that's the type of zen stuff MJ responded to, if he had pulled Kobe, that might've worked against him...so the zen move here would be to leave him in. Perhaps that's an explanation...

Maybe he did "sell out"...but I think that's just a bullshit term to be honest, makes him look like some kind of Jesus who turned his back on the lesser folks.

Carry on though, by all means, I just got tired of the repeated use of "selling out".

[Andrew]

I never said my opinion wasn't biased and I fully admit to being a little disappointed that the record for an opponent in MSG is no longer held by Michael Jordan. I also acknowledged it as a fantastic performance, I just think it was one of those records that was somewhat forced and not the kind of thing he's traditionally condoned. Maybe "sellout" is a strong term but it's puzzling considering Phil Jackson is traditionally such a strong advocate of team play and not chasing scoring records.

Furthermore, I'm not the only one expressing these sentiments and not everyone who's expressed those sentiments is a Bulls fan. So perhaps I my own fanaticism is affecting my opinion but I'm obviously not the only one who feels that way. I'm also not using "selling out" in such an extreme context to suggest that Jackson has gone from a paragon of virtue to a diabolically evil individual but I'm just very surprised and somewhat disappointed that he's had that change of heart. Does Kobe really need to be coddled to the point where he dictates when he stays in the game so he can get a record? Jackson once coached a player like that and convinced him that wasn't the way to win titles. Considering Phil hasn't won a ring since 2002, it's surprising that he's abandoned that approach.

If he ever sold out though, it was in returning to the Lakers in the first place. I mean, he writes a tell-all book in which he describes how difficult Kobe is to coach and while praising his talent criticises his approach to the game and perceived lack of commitment to team goals, while intimating that he made it clear to Lakers brass that he didn't think he could continue to coach Kobe. They then miss the Playoffs as the plan to move forward with Rudy T falls through, the Lakers wave a lot of money under Jax's nose and suddenly he's had a complete change of heart about Kobe. I can't fault him for wanting to do what he's obviously passionate about and wanting to make money but he backed off everything he said in his book the minute he put ink to paper on his contract to return. He's a great coach, a master motivator and I respect him for that but he's an opinion for hire and if that whole situation wasn't selling out then I don't know what is.

But if we're to cast aside those terms, I would simply say it's not sporting. The "done thing" is to pull the starters with the game in hand like that and not to run up the score or chase records in such situations. I just find it puzzling and disappointing that he'd approach the situation with the tact that he did. I don't deny my bias but that's just my take on the situation. I wouldn't expect everyone to see it the same way; truth be told, I thought I'd be alone on that one.

[Jackal]

You went on to talk about stuff I wasn't even implying.

I just disagree with you calling him a sell out, over and over and over again. I get it, he should've pulled Kobe...he didn't, doesn't make him a "sell out". You don't know what his reasons were, perhaps it's got more to do with it than just not following what he taught in Chicago anymore. Kobe is the type you have to coddle, hence me believing he isn't "selling out" opposed to doing whatever he needs to do to fuel his star player to keep him playing at a high(er) level.

Kobe went on those high scoring bouts a couple of years back and Jackson didn't pull him in either (or tell him to quit), they were winning...so it's all right. Maybe this is how he feels Kobe will excel, perhaps has nothing to do with his philosophy of the game in general. Different players, different situations ask for different aproaches, doesn't make him a sell out for doing what he thinks fits best with said player in said situation.

I actually see it in a positive light, Michael Jordan was mature enough to handle being pulled in such situations and could be scolded about team play, Kobe can't.