Defensive Improvements blog and video

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Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby Patr1ck on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:26 am

http://www.easports.com/nba-live/news/2014/defensive-gameplay-video

EA posted a new blog and video showcasing the defensive improvements and various defensive settings in NBA Live 15.

phpBB [video]
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby Andrew on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:34 am

Definitely good to read and see. Seems they've got the strategic options covered, and the defensive gameplay itself is looking better from those snippets. Responsiveness was a big issue last year, so if that's greatly improved, then defense is going to feel a lot better...especially in the post, where quick spins could be pretty cheesy.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby Patr1ck on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:13 am

I'm wondering how they are dealing with hop steps defensively, as that brought back memories of 2004. Blocking looks good but that sounds they use makes it sound like a hard beach ball or one of those balls you use to play kickball.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby Andrew on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:19 am

It might be something for sliders, which are in the cards for next year. In the meantime, I think if the rotations are better, the movement more fluid, and the ragdoll physics in the paint handled well, that'll help in getting in front of, or at least putting a body on players who are abusing the hop step.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby kingpnp on Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:32 am

Andrew wrote:It might be something for sliders, which are in the cards for next year. In the meantime, I think if the rotations are better, the movement more fluid, and the ragdoll physics in the paint handled well, that'll help in getting in front of, or at least putting a body on players who are abusing the hop step.
Drew, it shouldnt be a sliders thing at all.

Hopstep abuse comes from a lack of proper collision detection then penalization.

if i hopstep and their is a defender right there. depending on how good my ball handling is, and say Hands ratings are. this will tell you when i more or less land on a guy will i drop the ball 20%, 30%, 50% or 80% of the time. But even if i dont lose the ball. I should get called for a charge in 60% of those situations where a guy is standing there. But even when i'm not called for it. the collision should do enough damage to the offensive player to the point where he would not try to abuse hop stepping when i clog the paint or keep cutting off that spot. You shouldnt make it harder for a person to hopstep(2k) in order to stop hopstep cheese or over use. Fix the collision detection so when someone lands on a defender the defender stops sliding backwards while they are still in their standing position animation. if two people collide make them collide for real. sometimes they fall. sometimes they stumble, sometimes they fall and lose the ball or stumble and lose it a bit. that will stop that over abuse.

You shouldnt need a slider to fix that. you can hopstep in real life all night long. but it will do you no good if defenders are standing where you're going to land.but as you see i agree with your other statements. its about collision detection/rag doll physics.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:45 am

I agree. All the same, a "hop step effectiveness slider" - as we did have back in the day - could probably help out there as far as fine tuning, or altering the gameplay if people want it to be more challenging or even more arcade-like.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby kingpnp on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:50 am

Andrew wrote:I agree. All the same, a "hop step effectiveness slider" - as we did have back in the day - could probably help out there as far as fine tuning, or altering the gameplay if people want it to be more challenging or even more arcade-like.

no no no drew. now granted i'm one of a very few that has never liked the idea of "sliders". reason being. The only reason the sliders thing ever came about is because these basketball games have been saying "we're a basketball sim" and that was never the case. So in order to get them to play as close to sim as you the user think sim should be. you need sliders. Because we know out of the box its not going to be sim hoop. due to the casuals out there.

Now my suggestion that hasnt been implemented since the early 90's is what i call TWO modes. and you can still have the various levels Rookie, pro, allstar, superstar, within those modes.

but i've said this many times. Take it back to when you had two modes. an Arcade mode, and a Simulation mode.
The game doesnt come defaulted with either. at the beginning of the Startup Screen it asks you "Would you like to play Arcade style or Sim" and it will explain to you the difference between the two.

Arcade could be slightly sim with the video game-ish type of settings mixed in. a lot of helpers to assist the user, a lot of dunking, a lot 3's, not a ton of missing. a lot of super blocks, and super steals without fouls being call. you can spam reach for steals or keep jumping for blocks without being called for a ton of fouls. You can cheese and no one can cry about it. because arcade mode is a do whatever you want mode more or less. obviously it becomes more difficult vs the AI rookie, pro,etc. but still with those laxed rules.

Sim is just that..Sim. i know there's different interpretation's of sim. But the only true sim in a video game is for each team to be designed where they play like their real life counterparts when controlled by the CPU. when controlled by humans. each player has their real life attributes. So a person can do whatever they can to exploit those abilities in any way they see fit. The sim part of the game wont come into play with how YOU personally play the game. the Sim is in the physics of everything surrounding said game. if the physics is correct with the ball, with the basket, with collisions, animations, etc. It wont matter if the player shoots hook shots from half court all game long. 1 out of 10,000 will go in. thats a sim mode. a mode that puts you in a position where if you dont play simulation basketball vs your opponent(human or cpu) you will LOSE. you cant get away with arcade style play and win. period. because the physics /real life rules wont allow it.

No need for sliders here at all. IF and when we the users find out lets say guys are making too many unrealistic hand in the face 3's. THen the word gets out to EA, and EA changes the sliders to match the real nba more closely. Remember they do have the ability now to update things more quickly. a slider change(on their end not the users) could be an easy tweek. if necessary. but again, if the original physics and rules are based on real life statistics and physics. new slider control wont be necessary for sim players. what would happen is some people that THINK they are sim lovers will find out real quick that they are more arcade then they first thought.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:24 am

By all means, tune the game for maximum realism and optimal performance out of the box. However, that doesn't make sliders useless. The results aren't going to be perfect for everyone, and a tweak here or there might be the difference between "this is really frustrating me" and "this is giving me the experience that I want."

The other benefit of sliders is that they can adjust the difficulty independent of the difficulty settings. This is particularly useful if the hardest difficulty setting sees the CPU playing too cheap to create the challenge, but the second to highest difficulty doesn't feel challenging enough. Users can then choose the second highest difficulty setting, and make some slider adjustments so that the game is more challenging, without being frustratingly unfair.
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Re: Defensive Improvements blog and video

Postby kingpnp on Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:16 am

Andrew wrote:By all means, tune the game for maximum realism and optimal performance out of the box. However, that doesn't make sliders useless. The results aren't going to be perfect for everyone, and a tweak here or there might be the difference between "this is really frustrating me" and "this is giving me the experience that I want."

The other benefit of sliders is that they can adjust the difficulty independent of the difficulty settings. This is particularly useful if the hardest difficulty setting sees the CPU playing too cheap to create the challenge, but the second to highest difficulty doesn't feel challenging enough. Users can then choose the second highest difficulty setting, and make some slider adjustments so that the game is more challenging, without being frustratingly unfair.

I hear what you're saying drew. but here's the thing it goes back to how the game plays out of the box. The main reason a lot of guys run to sliders or even rush to turn up the difficulty to max out of the box is because they can cheese their way to victories. i have not met one person my entire life that needs to change the difficulty to high when they actually play BASKETBALL. not video game cheese-ish basketball. If you play basketball and the game is tuned to mimic basketball. guess what. you will end up playing....basketball. if you intentionally or unintentionally dont play basketball and use cheesy/video game basketball tactics to score points/play defense and the basketball game is not properly tuned to simulate basketball. You will get frustrated with how easy it is to score/defend or not.

The one thing i've noticed about live as well as 2k is its based on AI when playing the cpu or dealing with cpu controlled players on your team. If you want to know how good these games could be. Download one of those rosters someone has made with a bunch of the old school teams/legends. Throw them all in a FA pool and let them be randomly dispersed throughout the league. You will see all of a sudden even on the default difficulty/sliders. you are getting a more realistic brand of hoop. HOW/WHY? because all of those players Awareness/IQ is very high. no more bone headed moves. their tendencies are tweaked to perfection because obviously all the guys on the roster were legends so people pay a lot of attention to detail when creating them.

I've had friends of mine do the same. and they all agree. So if you take that and apply it to the regular game out of the box. with the obvious proper physics/animations that we've discussed. then you will have a realistic basketball game. now if it frustrates you that ibaka keeps blocking your short or that you cant score on the bulls often doing your normal lebron spin move. thats not a tunning issue. thats a play basketball issue you have. then SIM mode isnt for you or you need to practice how to play real hoop on the game. You can turn it to Arcade Mode so you can play video game basketball like you're use to .where your spin move will work again with ease.

dont say the cpu is draining all the 3's when you keep leaving korver wide open. thats exactly what would happen in real life if you actually left that guy open like that. now if a hand is in his face but the hand is a 6'2 pg. thats not enough hand in the face. korver is too tall. again REAL basketball simulation. now if you have durant and you close out properly on korver that should bother his shot where most times he wont hit that shot in your face. out of the box it should play this way. Any tweaking of sliders and turning up game play difficulty is because the game DOESNT play sim out of the box, OR it does play sim and someone wants it to play more video gamish out of the box.
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