A couple of quick notes about permissions, credits & reports

[Andrew]

Hi everyone, your friendly webmaster/administrator here.

We've been getting a lot of reports about stolen work recently, particularly in regards to conversions and compilations. This has often been a touchy issue in our community, going right back to the time when we were strictly an NBA Live website, so it's something we're keeping a close eye on and having some discussions about internally.

At present, we are looking at revising and perfecting a policy that is fair to everyone, ensuring that appropriate credit is given where it's due but also promoting a friendly, helpful atmosphere in a community that is willing to share resources, collaborate on projects and work together for the benefit of everyone. We do want to involve the patching/modding community at large in these discussions at some point, to help us devise a policy that works best for the majority and that everyone will hopefully at least find acceptable.

For now, please ensure that you give credit where it's due if you're using or converting someone else's work and wherever possible, it's a good idea to get in touch with them first to make sure they're cool with it. If you can't get a hold of them or you neglect to ask first, definitely make sure that you've at least given appropriate credit and if there are any issues, please remove the necessary files as soon as possible. Re-releasing work without any credit to the original author is still a no-go.

For the folks who have been helping us with reports, we definitely appreciate that but please keep the previous paragraph in mind when reporting posts and threads. While we continue to discuss and revise the policy, we are more interested in the people who are flat out taking work without giving any credit at all. If someone is releasing a compilation with full credits or making some conversions that they have indicated will not be released if the original author declines, we are currently treating that as a different situation and allowing it while we continue to discuss the matter. If there are issues where work is used uncredited or somebody will not remove work despite a polite request from the original author, we do want to hear about that so that we can take care of it.

Thank you for your understanding, please let us know if you have any questions or concerns. Once again, we are interested in your feedback as we continue our discussions on revising this policy.

[Like A Boss]

So Sir Andrew, we can convert CF's even without permission just by giving credit, then If that patcher complained about it we will then immediately remove the link am I right?

[Andrew]

As I said, it's a good idea to still get in touch with people first, but if you can't get hold of them then at least make sure you're giving full credit and if there are any issues later on, remove the file as necessary.

[PeterDaS4int1313]

Heres the thing. I am starting to convert old cfs by MIR, UHR wilson27 and so on. I would like to contact them and tell them what im doing, but they left. due to this causes. So why would i leave such good 2k11 cfs & 2k12 from those patchers. Its a waste.

I give full credit and nor ask for it. I am glad we have such great patchers from 2k11 & 12 to be able to convert great faces to 2k13.

[Patr1ck]

PeterDaS4int1313, since they left, you could decide to release those conversions while giving proper credit. If you think there will be some community backlash, you can always explain the situation like you did here, or remove the link.

[Andrew]

Indeed. As I said, we're not treating it as the same situation as using work uncredited, which is a no-go and will continue to be so under a revised policy. We still recommend getting in touch with people first whenever that's possible but at the very least give credit, which is what you're doing, so that's fine given the circumstances.

[shadowgrin]

Heres the thing. I am starting to convert old cfs by MIR, UHR wilson27 and so on. I would like to contact them and tell them what im doing, but they left. due to this causes. So why would i leave such good 2k11 cfs & 2k12 from those patchers. Its a waste.

I give full credit and nor ask for it. I am glad we have such great patchers from 2k11 & 12 to be able to convert great faces to 2k13.

Here's my unwanted opinion on your situation.

Just continue what you're doing as long as you give credit.
afaik those two aren't banned and if they don't agree with the use of their work they can always come back here and post themselves that they don't approve of what you're doing, then it should be taken down.

If they are banned, imo you can continue as long as you give credit even if the banned patchers have 'emissaries' that reach out the authors' message of disapproval. Doesn't matter they are banned anyway.

imo that should apply to other patches that have been posted here by banned patchers. Free use as long as credit is given.
I don't see it as a dick move. They posted their work in an open forum, their fault for being dicks and got banned.

As for future/new works of banned patchers that are posted here by people who just want to 'share', I say allow it as long as credit is given.
If the banned patchers have an issue about their work being posted here by someone then they should take it up with that someone, not the site. Don't care, they are banned anyway.
Deal is there have been patches made by NLSC team members or released here first by the authors which somehow end up being 'shared' on other sites without the patchers' knowledge, permission, and even credit. Such familiar sites even get credited as resource for some of the user-made 2K videos when the patches really came from the NLSC. Why bother policing it when other sites don't even have the courtesy or willingness to do the same.

[bigh0rt]

I think a general principle is a good sort of unofficial guideline to use. If somebody is releasing something to try and be helpful to the community, such as a conversion, saying "Hey, I converted this person's work so 2K13 users can also enjoy it.", then almost always, it will and should be fine. It's when people are trying to take credit, like, "Hey, look what I did!" that problems (rightfully) arise. People who make work need to take a chill pill and jump off their high horses (yes, we know you worked hard and took a lot of time, etc.) -- patches are made strictly so that we can all enjoy the game more. Period. Any attempt to continue that spirit should be encouraged. That being said, a little effort goes a long way for asking people to release their conversions or modify/tweak something. Common sense is useful. The only real problem I see are people trying to pass off conversions and other people's work as their own. Fishing for comments and praise because apparently their lives just aren't complete without the approval of complete strangers on an internet message board.

[benji]

If you use someones work in any manner and don't give credit. You're worse than a shitbag.

It doesn't harm you to acknowledge the shoulders of giants you're standing on.

Or even the lessers you stomped over to get where you are.

And you can't "own" shit you release to the world freely. Raise a ruckus and get your shit credited. But don't fuck over the fans who just want great stuff for their game.

If you're releasing work it's because you should want to share with others what you have done to improve things. So they also can have their game improved. And that together we can voluntarily improve all our games and have the product we maybe "should have had" in the first place.

Pulling your shit and quitting doesn't harm the "thieves" it harms the people who love your work and wait patiently for your every release. The "silent majority" who says "hey, a sweet Kobe patch" and just downloads it and gets to playing rather than wasting their time on forums.

There's nothing wrong with working on your own game, patching for yourself. But when you want to share with the rest of the community and help work towards what improves all our games there's an altruistic mindset to think about. Because maybe someday a single innovation you crudely put out there goes through the community at large and turns into an epic patch that makes the game amazing. And you get that patch even if all you did was one thing. Maybe you aren't even credited because it's five people through the line iterating on your work. Maybe someone else does it on their own and doesn't see yours. But everyone benefits, including you, because you get the sweet ass patch that makes the GAME AWESOME.

What do you want: the "respect" of anonymous people you'll never meet or an innovation that could enrich an entire community?

[Leftos]

benji, well done. Beautifully put.

[hokupguy]

i wish other site's had thoughts like this regarding permissions, credits & rep.

[Mr.Xcitement96]

benjie for president!!! That comment should have a patent!

[The_Day_Dream]

Sir Andrew,
Thank you for your notification. I still have some questions about this:
1. Using or converting stuff without permission from author but give credit while release, is it acceptable?
2. If the author already told me that he doesn't agree anybody use his stuff, but I still use his stuff and give credit while release, is it acceptable?
Please let me know your answer, thank you very much

[Andrew]

1. Yes.

2. If the matter can't be resolved, then it comes down to removing the work. However, we would prefer to encourage patchers not to withhold permission like that.

[The_Day_Dream]

Thank you Sir

1. Yes.

2. If the matter can't be resolved, then it comes down to removing the work. However, we would prefer to encourage patchers not to withhold permission like that.

[The_Day_Dream]

Sir Andrew:
I'm sorry to interrupt you again.
I really want to know more about credit.
In your opinion, what is appropriate credit ? what is necessary information for appropriate credit? are there have a template for it?
Expecting your reply. thanks a lot.

[Andrew]

Mentioning that you're using someone else's work in whatever capacity is generally sufficient (eg "original face by Bill" or "tattoos by Fred"). As I said before though, it's always a good idea to ask first whenever possible if the original author is still around, just in case there are issues.

[The_Day_Dream]

Understood, thank you.

[StompTheCourt]

This is why I am totally against this because patchers like URH are and will never releaes their work publicly, this is a quote from netshow
the other day, dont get me wrong I love King and what he does.

Actually the problem that I care the most is how Tha King labels my name on the preview photo.
For an example,
someone counterfeit the famous 'Starry Night' from Vincent van Gogh,
after he finished,
he labeled 'Vincent van Gogh' on his work:

here is the link so you can view
http://game.ali213.net/forum.php?mod=vi ... id68393741

[JaoSming]

if patchers are going to be that whiney about it, then I personally don't want them in this community. We are better off without those personalities.

Especially comparing his work to fucking van gogh. It's ridiculous.

[StompTheCourt]

if patchers are going to be that whiney about it, then I personally don't want them in this community. We are better off without those personalities.

Especially comparing his work to fucking van gogh. It's ridiculous.

Yea that was a little far my thing is I just get so frustrated that I cannot use none of there new work I know
I may sound like a child (I want...I want) I wish patchers would be more open to sharing unfortunately the good ones take
more serious than others I just miss the good ol days man MIR, URH, OK I wont say no more man just thought I would point it out

[JaoSming]

It's a fine point, and something that needs to be discussed. I do NOT think I am 100% righteous and permanent rule changes need to happen now, I just think that it has gotten to the point where we as a community need to reevaluate our priorities if people like him are so worshipped to allow all the backlash, fuss, and retracting permission to happen like it did.

[Andrew]

We wouldn't be forcing people to do anything, either. While we'd strongly encourage people to share their work and allow modifications by other people, we'd also let modders "opt out" of that approach for certain files or all of their files if they really feel that strongly about it. We just don't want to see public fuss and personal attacks when those issues arise.

Anyone who flat out takes work without giving any credit and refuses to rectify the situation would still be dealt with the same way as in the past.

[StompTheCourt]

We wouldn't be forcing people to do anything, either. While we'd strongly encourage people to share their work and allow modifications by other people, we'd also let modders "opt out" of that approach for certain files or all of their files if they really feel that strongly about it. We just don't want to see public fuss and personal attacks when those issues arise.

Anyone who flat out takes work without giving any credit and refuses to rectify the situation would still be dealt with the same way as in the past.

Yea I would not have even said anything if I had seen what was going on on ThaKings thread just looked at it sorry to bring it up again

[Andrew]

No problem. It is something we want to hear people's thoughts on as we look to develop the best and fairest possible policy moving forward.