Next gen 2K (xBox 720/PS4)

[ChrisCP3Paul]

When I read that they updated Madden's engine to something more realistic actually physics based instead of animation based last year. I was left wondering about 2K14's plans for the next generation consoles, also NBA Live's as well.
But my point being we've all known that these games have been basically running on the same engine for 2 console cycles now, the best way I can describe it in a term is simply "Animations based on ratings" basically the gameplay is just a series of animations that are triggered and performed according the the player's involved ratings. None of the gameplay is based on real physics whatsoever, even the one thing people would assume which is the way the ball bounces off the rim, even that is controlled by sliders and ratings.
What I'm saying is, lets use this example, when two people meet... let's say Derrick Rose with the ball on offense and Roy Hibbert defending, instead of real physics taking place the game will give you a canned animation based off Allen and Roy's ratings.... so Rose has a quickness rating of 99 meaning the game will put you in an animation where you blow by Roy. So it has nothing to do with real physics, and everything boils down to triggering an animation and based on ratings determining which side will be more successful. If that defender instead of Roy was someone like LeBron, then Rose's blow by animation will not be triggered as easily as it would when Roy was guarding him. This because LeBron's defensive and quickness ratings are very good. The same goes for anything else in the game, from dribbling to layups, etc....

The whole game and it's system relies on this, there is nothing more to it than that, no real physics only motion captured moves to fool you into thinking there are physics there. This has been my problem with Live and 2K every since I started playing them on the xBox 360 and PS3... these two consoles would have done away with this but instead developers chose to stick with the same engine from the first xbox and Ps2 era obviously money reasons.

NOW, the new generation consoles of PS4 and xBox 720 are going to be here end of the year, and would I be an idiot to assume that they won't be able to get away with using the same game engine they've been using all this time. I mean would I be an idiot to assume that we as consumers of the product would still let pixelated garbage that are the shoes in this game, the perma hair, the floating jerseys', the canned animations, etc.....etc..... etc.....

Would we REALLY let that stuff fly and just look the other way ?
Could they REALLY get away with still using this same non physics based engine on the next gen consoles ? Will they try to do it on some level at least ? or will they finally come around to building the game from the ground up with new engines for graphics, physics, etc....
What do you guys think ? I mean with all the success they've had last few years without any competition (Live) one would assume they are content and may think they don't need to change anything.... on the other hand because of all the success they've had they may not be as eager for profits as usual so they would go on about taking their time and re-building the game from scratch.

Do you guys really think this game needs to be rebuilt from scratch, or just fine tuned some more ?

[Patr1ck]

I think 2K12 and 2K13 showed that they have the ability to go beyond their canimation style of programming. For instance, 2K12 added the IK technology to certain blocking animations to allow the defender to stretch out or swipe in the direction of the ball. While a bit raw in it's execution compared to smooth mocapped blocks, I think they did a good job and have improved on it pretty well for 2K13. Same thing for 2K13 with the in-air collisions, only problem was that they just didn't trigger enough. The way they have blended shooting forms into different types of shots is quite amazing and shows their capabilities. If they can come up with a similar way to handle the different looks and abilities of players without resorting to canned results based almost completely off ratings, it will be a game changer.

2K has been pretty smart not to attempt to overhaul the entire game in one year. I don't expect them to rebuild from scratch. One major thing they really need is a graphic engine update. It's beginning to look dated.

[Andrew]

We've seen the problems with rebuilding from scratch demonstrated quite clearly with NBA Live in recent years. Bottom line, the new tech (like the physics that NBA Live has been trying to implement) has to be ready, working and properly polished before it's utilised. It seems to me that a better approach is to use the current tech to its full potential while developing the new tech behind the scenes and introducing it when it's fit to implement.

To that end, I'd suggest that the first game or two in the new generation won't make full use of the power of the new consoles, nor be a complete revolution. That doesn't mean they can't still be good games though, especially since they're less likely to suffer the teething problems of tech that's not quite ready and polished.

[ChrisCP3Paul]

Creating a brand new engine in a year is not feasible I understand that.... But there are a variety of great engines out there, graphics, physics, etc...... Unreal, Cryengine 3, etc....etc..... they have been here for years, so it's not like 2K can use the excuse of "Hey we can't do it all in one year" but I assume as all big companies 2K is greedy, they don't want to pay for a license to use someone else's engines, every big company is in the habit of really REALLY milking their product to their absolute end...
And this current system they are using now surely must be at it's end, I mean I'm at a loss that pixelated shoes and immovable hair that look straight out of a PS2 or Xbox game even passed for PS3 and Xbox360.... and that's just graphics, real time physics are the biggest question....



I'm looking at EA's current lineup of Madden and FIFA, and both of them have gone under a transition to a physics based system as opposed to animations based. I am assuming that Live 2014 will be using one of these when it comes out and I am really looking forward to finally seeing a true next generation Basketball game, not something that was used way back in the early 2000's on Dreamcast, or PS2 or Xbox...

[Andrew]

Even if they pay for one of those engines, it still needs to be properly polished and made to work for a basketball game, which again is something they can be doing behind the scenes while finishing up with what they're using at the moment. Better they get the most mileage they can out of what they're using and then make the change to the new engine when it's ready to go. Once again, a premature switch has been the downfall of NBA Live as they've tried to transition to their new physics tech following a fairly well received game in NBA Live 10, with it clearly lacking the necessary polish.