Roster Discussion - PGs

[llcmac]

I haven't seen a thread about this, so if there is one...sorry bout that.

One thing I have noticed in a lot of the rosters that come out is that ratings are tweaked based on player performance but not against the performance of other comparable players.

For example I will use Russell Westbrook, John Wall, Jeremy Lin, Ricky Rubio and Kyrie Irving. Again I am not an expert on these players which is why I am calling this a discussion and not a "I know all" thread.

But from what I have seen so far and I almost never see represented in rosters(IMHO):

1. Westbrook can't pass and is a turnover machine but with high potential. Maybe one day he will be a good passer but he is too focused on attacking the basket and being the next DRose scoring-wise. Yet in rosters he always has good passing abilities.

2. Wall offensively shouldn't be rated higher than Lin or Irving. He can drive to the basket but that's about it right now. Irving is the best shooter of the bunch...by far. Follow by Lin. But then Wall and Rubio just can't shoot right now. Yet Wall is still rated 82 in most rosters....even his offensive rating is higher than the others. Wall and Rubio have the edge on Kyrie and Jeremy when it comes to rebounding and passing. Lin and Rubio just seem to get picked to death on defense so their D awareness would be pretty low. I know Wall has low shooting ability in most rosters but yet his total O rating always seems to be higher. Maybe I am just too focused on the main ratings.

What would be better overalls for these players? who else should be in their class?

I was thinking 79-80 for Wall (because of his D, rebounding, passing and speed), 77-79 for Kyrie (Offensively ahead of the rest), Lin 76-78 (Closer to his potential than the others), Rubio 75-77 (best passer of the group? gets steals and rebounds too, least threat offensively right now?)

I really have no bias for any of these players (as I am a 76ers fan and happy with Jrue), just wondering what the consensus is?

Am i completely off base? or do my thoughts have some merit?

[Andrew]

Overalls are overrated. Yes, they do have some impact on the game because they represent a player's overall "value", but a lot of folks tend to get a bit too caught up in them. It all comes down to how they're calculated and in that respect, more athletic players and prolific dunkers have an advantage because they are rated higher in those areas, thus boosting their overall rating. When it comes down to it, the individual ratings are more important than the overall; get those right and the overall rating will generally turn out to be reasonable, if not always ideal.

There's also the balance between gameplay and simulated stats. In Westbrook's case, he's been averaging around 8 assists the past couple of years (though he's down to just under 6 so far this year) and the passing rating factors into the way the sim engine determines assist numbers. Point guards do tend to get a lot of turnovers because they've got the ball in their hands a lot and are bound to pick up a few from errors their teammates make in addition to their own mistakes. Even Magic Johnson averaged 3.9 turnovers per game on his career, though admittedly far more assists per game than Westbrook whose assist to turnover ratio this year definitely isn't that hot. I think it's fine to give all point guards solid ballhandling skills, but at this point I would agree someone like Rubio should be rated higher in that department than Westbrook.

It's a similar situation with other offensive ratings. They factor into simulated scoring and assist averages, so it's a matter of striking balance between gameplay and simulated stats, representing a player's performance and abilities as accurately as possible in the process. The results aren't always perfect.

[llcmac]

That's my basic gripe with the OVRs. It seems like the only thing the CPU goes by which is why someone like Matt Bonner isn't used much. I could get over the OVR ratings if it didn't manage everything the CPU did.

As for Westbrook he just seems like such a shoot first PG. I guess his pass rating is fine as long as his "hogging the ball" tendencies are higher. Seems like his progression is, drive to the hoop, pull up from 15, dibble and try to get an opening, then if all else fails pass the ball. KD should get a touch every time down when set.