Ratings for All Players NEW VERSION 2.0

[Fifedawg]

The Spreadsheet is completed and ready for release. Every attribute in the game as been rating except for DUNK, STANDING DUNK & VERTICAL. These attributes cannot be rated for each individual players based on numbers so I'll leave those up to you guys. There are more than a few Tendencies that are not rated as well. Most of those I've left up to the user as well. Those include PUTBACK DUNKS, all under SET UP DRIBBLE, DRIVE RIGHT, all under DRIBBLE PENETRATION, all under FINISHING MOVE, all under SHOT TYPE, all under INSIDE SHOT, Some under VARIOUS SHOTS, only GIVE AND GO under FREELANCE, all under POST MOVES, only THROW ALLEY OOP under PASSING and only HARD FOUL under DEFENSE. I have my own style in doing these tendencies so if you want that info just let me know and i'll pass that on to you.

I've also included the players real stats for there season in the spreadsheet as well. Some statistics may be marked as "N/A" and that simply means that there was no number for that particular statistic for that year.

I've worked really hard on this for the past two months or so and appreciate your feedback. If you do use the ratings, all i ask is a simple "Shout Out." Happy Gaming!

Version 1.1 with 3pt Rating Fix
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4acf0c

Version 1.2 with Shot Ratings Fix
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3lg33t

My way of doing remaining ratings & tendencies
http://www.sendspace.com/file/w8z4ls

Version 1.3 with Updated 2010-11 Stats as of 1/20/11
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ux9n7h

Version 1.4 with Correction for Pass Out & Spot up Tendencies
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jt9dww

Version 1.5 with season ending 2010-11 stats
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gacvcc

Version 2.0
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nr4jev

I know I'm a little late on updating the coaches, but hey it was a Holiday Weekend. Anyway, the Spreadsheet is finally done with all coaches from 1950-2011. I had some problems trying to find some of the coaches ages from coaches in the 50's and 60's but I found a majority of the rest. The coaches ratings are based on a statistical analysis from over 60 years of pro ball and I tried to capture the different era's of basketball thru the ratings of the coaches. Most of the ratings where based on the comparison of the team the Coach represented and what was the season average. I then figured what was the biggest differences both above and below average and went from there. Now some ratings like Look for Post Players, Size/Speed, Athleticism/Skill etc. are very hard to rate because you have to look at each individual team to do that and I just don't have the time to do that so I did the best I could with that. As always, the ratings are subjective and could be argued but make the necessary changes yourself unless you find a error that effects the entire spreadsheet. Happy Gaming!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yy1dur

Oh one more thing I'm going to update the players spreadsheet soon as there is an error in the 3 pt shot tendency for players. It needs to be lowered 20%, so I'll get that done as soon as possible.

I've also included my sliders which work very well with the player & coach ratings. I'll have to admit you may have to change the shot sliders because i've only tested these on my Greatest Players Mod and i've tested on a Season so make changes on your shot and attack the basket sliders and it should fix the problem. Everything else should be good such as Free Throw Attempts, Assists, Turnovers, Fouls & Steals.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vp9ydg

[Albys]

Wow!!!

[Batzmanz]

[Cpt. Rogers]

can i get a copy of that

[mynameisgerd]

HOLY F^*^%&$^, I think I just shat my self! This is really amazing, bro. Hope you can make it as big as your effort there.

[JaoSming]

stickied because this is going to be a HUGE resource when REDitor comes out

thank you

[HellBoy]

Well what can I say ...

[Vl@d Zola Jr.]

Nicely done! Really amazing and tedious work!

[jzero]

ur still playing 2k10?
check out his linked picture
otherwise, kudos to you bro:)

[benji]

If you have any questions about the way ratings are calculated, Feel free to ask questions.

Sure, how are they calculated?

[Tommyhtc]

great job man, this will be a great resource.

making a formula that will fit all players is indeed very challenging, near impossible.

Some of the ratings that you have are quite accurate,
but Jordan's 3 point shooting is way off.
He can't be 99 in 1995 and 25 in 1984 lol

[Fifedawg]

ur still playing 2k10?
check out his linked picture
otherwise, kudos to you bro:)

Lol. Yeah man still playing 2k10. I have a 82 game season in it and I'm just about done, so don't wanna just quit. But best believe 2k11 dominates my computer time!

great job man, this will be a great resource.

making a formula that will fit all players is indeed very challenging, near impossible.

Some of the ratings that you have are quite accurate,
but Jordan's 3 point shooting is way off.
He can't be 99 in 1995 and 25 in 1984 lol

Well if you look at Jordan's 94-95 Season (which is his comeback season where he wore #45), he played only 17 games and shot 16-32 (50%) in those games. He also hit a three every 42 mins of game action. Those are my determining factors in computing three point ratings. The 50% gives Jordan a core 92 rating and the three pointers made per minutes played adds a +9 Bonus so thus a 101 or 99 in NBA 2k terms. Your right about his 1984 3pt rating though. I changed that to a 38 rating. Jordan made only 9-52 (17.3%) three pointers that season and only made one every 349 minutes played. He did make 9 three's though so he deserves some kind of rating and thus the 38. Jordan's range as a rookie was non existant!

If you have any questions about the way ratings are calculated, Feel free to ask questions.

Sure, how are they calculated?

Basketball Reference.com is a excellent reference for player statistics. The way I calculated the ratings is to take the high in a particular statistic like say blocks and the average of all players that played since 1951. There is a statistic on the site called block % which is the % of shots the player blocked while on floor. The high would rate as a 99 and the average would rate to a 62 (Which is half of the high of 99 and the low of 25). I then made sure that at least 0.1%-0.6% of all the players that played had at least a 99 in a particular category but no more. I want a 99 rating only given out to those that are the absolute best.


Right now, I'm still putting in work to get this completed and am on schedule for the release date I promised. I hope everyone enjoys this because I've been working on this rating system for the last two years and have put alot of time and effort into it. Good thing for me though is I have a job which allows me to work on this and do what's required from me at work. Lol.

[benji]

Then what do you do for players pre-1977 or even earlier pre-1974, not to mention demarcate the shooting ratings?

Well if you look at Jordan's 94-95 Season (which is his comeback season where he wore #45), he played only 17 games and shot 16-32 (50%) in those games. He also hit a three every 42 mins of game action. Those are my determining factors in computing three point ratings. The 50% gives Jordan a core 92 rating and the three pointers made per minutes played adds a +9 Bonus so thus a 101 or 99 in NBA 2k terms. Your right about his 1984 3pt rating though. I changed that to a 38 rating. Jordan made only 9-52 (17.3%) three pointers that season and only made one every 349 minutes played. He did make 9 three's though so he deserves some kind of rating and thus the 38. Jordan's range as a rookie was non existant!

You need to adjust three point percentage from 1994 to 1997 downward because of the shorter line. Notice that once the line moved back out Jordan's and hundreds of others' numbers fell back towards what it was prior to the move in.

[Tommyhtc]

[quote="FifedawgWell if you look at Jordan's 94-95 Season (which is his comeback season where he wore #45), he played only 17 games and shot 16-32 (50%) in those games. He also hit a three every 42 mins of game action. Those are my determining factors in computing three point ratings. The 50% gives Jordan a core 92 rating and the three pointers made per minutes played adds a +9 Bonus so thus a 101 or 99 in NBA 2k terms. Your right about his 1984 3pt rating though. I changed that to a 38 rating. Jordan made only 9-52 (17.3%) three pointers that season and only made one every 349 minutes played. He did make 9 three's though so he deserves some kind of rating and thus the 38. Jordan's range as a rookie was non existant!
[/quote]
I believe that your method of transferring stats to ratings make complete sense,

but to me, ratings are general appraisements of a player's ability.
I don't think that is something that can be measured purely by statistics.

Ratings are subjective, esepcially with ratings like dunking and layups.

Can you tell us how you did those?

[Sylvian]

Great man, great man.

[Fifedawg]

I believe that your method of transferring stats to ratings make complete sense,

but to me, ratings are general appraisements of a player's ability.
I don't think that is something that can be measured purely by statistics.

Ratings are subjective, esepcially with ratings like dunking and layups.

Can you tell us how you did those?

Some ratings are just not able to be measured by statistics. Dunk is one of them. That is truly up the eyes of the beholder. The Dunk Rating or Standing Dunk Rating will not be apart of the spreadsheet due to this. This will have to be inputted by the user himself although I would recommend using DC All American's Dunk Edits. He does a great job of that. I have my own method, but I follow his closely.

As for Layup. I use the players ability to make inside shots. I get an idea of that by finding out the amount of Field Goals made by Minutes Played and corresponding that with the players Free Throws Attempted by Minutes Played. A player that gets fouled alot usually takes alot of shots around the basket. So guys like Wilt, Jerry West, Jordan, Shaq & Barkley have high Layup Ratings.

Then what do you do for players pre-1977 or even earlier pre-1974, not to mention demarcate the shooting ratings?

You need to adjust three point percentage from 1994 to 1997 downward because of the shorter line. Notice that once the line moved back out Jordan's and hundreds of others' numbers fell back towards what it was prior to the move in.

For players Three Point Ratings that where in an era where the three pointer was not used is difficult because there is no measuring stick. I took at look at how 3 point percentages have progressed since the league installed the rule in 1979-1980, and got an idea of what kind of ratings players should get from different era's. For instance, last year the league three point % on average per team was 35.44%. In 1979-80, the average was 28.19% so that's a dip of about 0.24% per year (excluding 1994-1997 when the line was moved closer). So from there I can determine what kind of league average the NBA would have for any year after 79-80'. I gave the players with the best jump shot ratings the higher 3 point ratings for those years.

As far as lowering the 3pt shot ratings for players circa 1994-1997, I guess it would be up to the Mod Makers. If someone where to create a mod for say the 1995-96 Season they should consider lowering the 3 point ratings if they where going to Mod courts signifying the league's rule to change the line to 22 feet. If they where not going to Mod the courts from that era and use the same distance as today's game, then they should leave the 3 point ratings as is to signify the shorter lines.

[DCAllAmerican]

I am interested in doing my own sheet.

Can you tell me the exact formulas for Passing, Rebs and any other quantifiable rating that uses % (like assist %).

I didn't follow you on how you came up with those ratings.

[Lunatic Wolf]

Just curious how this is going along

[Fifedawg]

Just curious how this is going along

Everything is going good. All Ratings have been completed. Since tendencies is such a vital part of making a player, i've decided to complete those before releasing the spreadsheet.

[NBaller_76]

Great Fifedawg !! Much appreciated

[townknave]

You need to pay attention to sample size when assigning things like 3pt ratings. Jordan going 16-32 from the shortened 3 point line should not make him the best 3 pt shooter of all time. It's just a fluke stretch for MJ.

Jordan has never shot well from the original 3 pt arc- his only good years from 3 were from the shortened one since he was a killer midrange shooter. In '98, once the line was lengthened again, he shot .238.

[NBaller_76]

Well, townknave, you're right. But what I do for my ratings is that I take into account the number of points scored by 3 point shooting. So, a player who makes 25 out of 48 3-Pointers in a season (more than 50% effective), won't be as good as one who scores 146 out of 378 (much less than 50% effective). Why ? Because first of all the fact that a player tries 3s means he knows he is good in making them (and vice versa), and secondly, you want the game to be realistic, so a player who in 82 games makes a lot of 3s (even if his percentage effective scoring is not so good), you want to have him scoring 3s also in NBA 2k11 no ?

Looking forward for your rating Fifedawg. Any update on the status ?

[Fifedawg]

Looking forward for your rating Fifedawg. Any update on the status ? [/quote]

Yes. Everything is going great. Just about completed. Have only about 8 more tendencies to complete. I'm looking at release date of 12/17/10 so be on the lookout for that!

When doing ratings u have to look at how the player does per minute played. For instance, just cause a player averages only 5 rebounds off the bench you can't give him a lower rebound rate than a guy who starts and averages 7. The guy that averages 5 rebounds could be doing that in only 20 minutes of action but the guy with 7 rebounds per game may take him 35 minutes to get his. So obviously the bench player is the better rebounder because if he was playing 35 minutes a game, he would be averaging about 9 rebounds per.

I do ratings so I can get the same or as close to as possible numbers as they produced that season that i'm trying to recreate. That's what i'm going for. U will see alot of players on the spreasheet that played say 17 games in a season and they may have a 99 pass rating or a 99 steal rating, but that doesn't make them the greatest of all time. It only says that I either passed the ball at the same assist rate per minute as John Stockton or stole the ball at the same rate per minute as Alvin Robertson. Now, you have to remember that there are other factors that are involved that will make these players differ from one another. One is Stamina, another is Durability or the guy may not rate as well in other ratings to be good enough to come off the bench. The players Stamina may be rated low so he doesn't have the opportunity to play long minutes and get as many assists as John Stockton or the guy make only make it thru a quarter of the season if his Durability is low. Jordan may have a high 3 point rating but he can't stay healthy on the floor during Association Mode, what good is that 99 three point rating?

Also, when doing three point rating, I also use you're method NBaller 76. I use 3 pt % and three pointers per minute played together to come up with the rating. Let's look at Ray Allen's 2001-02 Season. He made 229 3's in 2522 minutes played and shot 43.4%. For this season Allen rates to a 94. Now look at Hakeem Olajuwon's season of 93-94. Olajuwon was not know for his three point shooting of course, but that season he made 8-19 3's for 42.1% in 3277 minutes played. Pretty good for 7'0" post player. Being that he came close to what Allen did % wise he should be close to the 94 Allen got right? Wrong. Olajuwon made only 8 3's in over 3000 minutes and with that Olajuwon's rating is only a 70.

[LHead2]

Yes. Everything is going great. Just about completed. Have only about 8 more tendencies to complete. I'm looking at release date of 12/17/10 so be on the lookout for that!

When doing ratings u have to look at how the player does per minute played. For instance, just cause a player averages only 5 rebounds off the bench you can't give him a lower rebound rate than a guy who starts and averages 7. The guy that averages 5 rebounds could be doing that in only 20 minutes of action but the guy with 7 rebounds per game may take him 35 minutes to get his. So obviously the bench player is the better rebounder because if he was playing 35 minutes a game, he would be averaging about 9 rebounds per.

I do ratings so I can get the same or as close to as possible numbers as they produced that season that i'm trying to recreate. That's what i'm going for. U will see alot of players on the spreasheet that played say 17 games in a season and they may have a 99 pass rating or a 99 steal rating, but that doesn't make them the greatest of all time. It only says that I either passed the ball at the same assist rate per minute as John Stockton or stole the ball at the same rate per minute as Alvin Robertson. Now, you have to remember that there are other factors that are involved that will make these players differ from one another. One is Stamina, another is Durability or the guy may not rate as well in other ratings to be good enough to come off the bench. The players Stamina may be rated low so he doesn't have the opportunity to play long minutes and get as many assists as John Stockton or the guy make only make it thru a quarter of the season if his Durability is low. Jordan may have a high 3 point rating but he can't stay healthy on the floor during Association Mode, what good is that 99 three point rating?

Also, when doing three point rating, I also use you're method NBaller 76. I use 3 pt % and three pointers per minute played together to come up with the rating. Let's look at Ray Allen's 2001-02 Season. He made 229 3's in 2522 minutes played and shot 43.4%. For this season Allen rates to a 94. Now look at Hakeem Olajuwon's season of 93-94. Olajuwon was not know for his three point shooting of course, but that season he made 8-19 3's for 42.1% in 3277 minutes played. Pretty good for 7'0" post player. Being that he came close to what Allen did % wise he should be close to the 94 Allen got right? Wrong. Olajuwon made only 8 3's in over 3000 minutes and with that Olajuwon's rating is only a 70.

One thing I would recommend would be to have rating limits relative to a players career average (or their averages in the seasons immediately preceding and following). Jordan may have shot the three extremely well in '95, but it's a small sample size. Had Jordan returned earlier in the season, and we had a larger sample size, his percentages would've likely tapered off. In fact, in his 10 playoff games that season, he shot only 36.7% from 3, at a frequency of once per 38 minutes. His cumulative numbers through 27 games are 43.5% shooting at once per 40.3 minutes, which I'm guessing your formula would put at somewhere around an 86. A small sample size can throw off the ratings dramatically.

[townknave]

Exactly, Lhead2 gets what I am saying. Fifedawg, I wasn't talking about using per-minute stats. Obviously that should be a big part of the general approach when trying to rate players fairly. But per-minute stats work against pretty hard here when he's giving you under 1 three point make per game.

I think the problem here is that you're trying to use the percentage to establish a base score, and then adding or subtracting from that score based on the rate of making threes. It would be better if you added or subtracted the square of the rate of making threes, because there needs to be more separation for guys who can make a high volume at a high rate. However you're doing it though, it's obviously got a problem if it rates a guy the best of all time for going 16-32 over 17 games. That should not be 5 points higher than Ray Allen's '02 season which was legitimately better and set the record for 3's made in a season. If '95 Jordan merits a 99 rating, what does 2010 Kyle Korver get? 120? Steve Kerr made threes almost twice as frequently as MJ that year AND shot a better percentage... if he can't get a better 3 pt rating then isn't the ceiling of your scale far too low? In fact even if you give Kerr a 99 he will be a significantly WORSE shooter in the game than MJ since MJ will have much better Shot off Dribble and Shot in Traffic ratings.

The other problem is the importance of sample size. When you have a tiny sample size like that on a player for the season, I really think you have to factor in the player's career background in that area before handing out a rating so out of line with that player's usual performance.

You may argue that it's a more realistic representation of MJ if he also shoots 50% from 3 in his '95 season in 2k11, but that's actually false. Had MJ played the whole season there's no way he'd have sustained 50% from downtown. He'd have approached his career success rate shooting from that distance, about 40% (or about 32 from the longer 3 point line).

If you give him more reasonable rating, like say 84 (if you don't penalize for the shortened line) or maybe 72 (if you do penalize), then he still has a reasonable chance of hitting 16 of his first 32, but that will be, like it was in real life, a fairly unlikely fluke outcome that you could only get in a small sample size. If you make hitting 16 of 32 the average outcome that is simply not a realistic represenation of MJ. And let's not forget the horrible effects that an MJ with 99 3 point rating has on gameplay. Since you rated him as if he's better than Ray Allen at Ray Allen's best attribute and MJ always had high Shot Off Dribble and Shot in Traffic ratings, you can probably average 8 threes a game with him.