NBA Elite 11 Demo Impressions

[J@3]

So I set both of the demo's to download while I was asleep, woke up and now I have thoughts.

I'm going to ignore things that could be changed with sliders (steal frequency, shot percentage etc).

This game is pretty awful to be honest. I played 2K11 first and I found myself actually wanting to like Elite because I wasn't completely happy with how 2K turned out, but this game sucks. The animations are just awful from top to bottom. The dunks suck, the layups suck, the collisions suck... I don't mind the shot animations actually, and the dribbling ones I guess do their job (more on this in a minute) but I mean you're making a basketball game so you'd want the shooting/dribbling to look relatively realistic.

While I'm on that, the ball is gigantic. Derek Fisher looked like he was palming a watermelon.

Anyway the pace of the game is way too fast. It didn't take me long at all to get used to the new controls, and while there's some things I liked (simplicity of them) there's a lot I didn't. Firstly, what's the point of having an entire joystick assigned so you can cross over and do a spin move? Make the B button crossover and the Y problem spin move, problem solved. I found myself forgetting that I could even do dribble moves because they were virtually ineffective. I got just as much spacing on my jump shots if I charged forward then pulled back when I went to shoot as I did when I used the dribble moves.

Playing D with the right stick is retarded. Up to jump, down to steal. Pointless. I'd rather have an assigned jump button, or at least let me alter the jumps so I can jump on angles and shit like that. Passing with the trigger again makes no sense in any way

It was hard to take note of the AI because I was focused on just trying to play the game and ignore the many flaws.

One thing I will say, I don't like 2K's isomotion and I feel like this whole control scheme Elite has going is pretty much a rip of that, only not quite as annoying.

Positives... well I liked the UI. I like the free throw system (though it's a bit easy) and I think the transition from standing to going into a shot animation is better than 2K11's but otherwise the game is pretty bad. There's no way I'd pay for it, and I wouldn't buy it with anyone elses money because I just wouldn't play it.

I don't hate EA, I love FIFA but really they should be taking notes from that game and working them into this somehow. The gulf in quality between the two is incredible.

[Patr1ck]

I actually commend the developers for being able to make such a drastic change in one year and have it at least playable. Most people should have known going in that it wasn't going to look pretty this year. Especially after the videos and quick clips showing off the collision animations.

The one thing I don't understand is why people aren't really acknowledging the better response to controller input. It has been bad for both games since 2008. This to me is huge. Why people want a game to play for them is beyond me, and that is how I have always felt when playing previous Live games. Live 08-10 was horrible at letting you be creative because every command happened half a second to two seconds later than when you pressed a button because you were stuck in an animation, and even if you weren't, it still had a bad response. Still have one of th games? Try navigating the menus, it's apparent throughout the entirety of each game. The 2K series has been better and worse at input response depending on what you were doing. Most of their control when moving passing or shooting is responsive, and only the long and slow animations(like passing out of a double team, or the post moves) caused a loss of control.

The only thing that is really wrong with the Elite 11 demo is the way it ends up looking. They have these generic, smooth, responsive animations in some places that look fine. Most of them are on the ground, and then they have these snappy, herky jerky technological animations that are mostly blocking, rebounding, and in air collision animations. The worst thing about the ground animations is how they transition from one to another while moving or changing direction. It causes sliding and overall awkwardness like playing defense with your back to the defender, and play execution that looks like they are practicing the frames of the play one step at a time, rather than executing it smoothly. Transitioning from gathers to layups doesn't look very good unless you are going straight to the basket since the layups will happen by themselves.

Having my player change direction in mid air when adjusting a layup is just bad looking. Try this in shootaround with the demo. At the top of the key, drive to the basket and at the freethrow line hold the gather button while rotating the the right stick in a half circle from left to down to right, and continue that into a right handed layup by rotating it further to the top. Once he gets off the ground, quickly press the right stick to the left and rotate it up to adjust to a left handed layup. The player goes from a layup to the right, in-air towards the left or even stopping in mid-air, and after releasing he falls in another direction. All of this could look good if they just had used the real time physics to govern a players in air momentum, rather then let the animation decide what direction they go or how high they jump.

Not to mention, but there are a few AI issues. I hope they were ironed out in the final build. Maybe a higher difficulty setting will be needed since we all know that the lower difficulty settings just cause the cpu to act like they don't know what is actually happening on the court.

[Axel The Great]

OK, so I got to download the demo last night, and played it for like a half hour.

Really, I, like Andrew, don't see the harsh criticism towards this game. True, it's not pretty, but it's not unplayable.

What I liked:
I like the new shooting controls. I hate the dice roll in Live 10, so this game does a good job in eliminating that.
I like the ESPN Integration. True, Elite's commentary isn't as deep as 2K, but it's nice hearing Mike Breen, Jeff Van Gundy, and Mark Jackson commentate.
I like the dribbling CONTROLS, NOT ANIMATIONS. The controls are pretty simple, I picked 'em up pretty quickly.

What I didn't like:
I HATE that we have to pass with a shoulder button. I'm very used to holding R2 before a layup/dunk in Live 10, but I've attempted a self off-the-glass alley-oop doing that, and it's just frustrating.
I don't like the fact that the AI is still hard to beat. Even on rookie, the AI anticipated all of my shots.
I don't like playing defense with the right stick.
I don't like the player models, they look annorexic.

This is just the suface of what I saw. A lot of my dislikes is due to the fact that I need to get used to the controls. I don't see why many people are harshly criticizing the game, but I see what the problems are. Might just get 2K11 this year, and play another year of Live 10, because even if I get used to the controls, I still won't like them.

[MayhemMonkey]

How do you do the self alley-oops? I tried the r2 + up on right stick and cant get it to happen . Are you only able to pull it off in a game and not the gym or whatever there calling it this year .

[wabenne]

I think those of you asking or saying you don't understand the harsh critism of the game should look at some of your own comments. I think the problem is your trying to find away to defend in the game but in your defense your just admitting the problems with the game. NO I actually don't think we should comment EA for taking such a drastic new direction....we should only commend them if that drastic change works and you guys know it doesn't work out.

More people are coming out frustrated then pleased and excited, and for the developers that is a problem. Isn't just a learning curve but its dealing with totally new shooting and dribbling mechanics that sometimes are sluggish, no turbo, R2 has been put for passing know we are all use to pressing it for turbo so frustration comes in when not meaning to pass but just pressed it for turbo and then it makes the crazy pass. Also even most have question the graphics and animations there can be no excuse EA is putting a game out so they have to be accountable for that product so in a year where your bringing so much change wouldn't you want at least your game to look good while your doing the learning curve.

I think you guys forget that Elite 11 is a produce of Live, LIve isn't new its been here for a while and was the king of basketball gaming for a while, there are many live fans don't try to dull down the area of expectation and anticipation from fans who expect the best product. Your comments suggest oh we can see where there going theres not to much they can do within a year but we expect maybe next year a great game. NO that is not the way it goes if thats the case then don't put a game out this year say we are making so many changes that the game won't be ready till 2012, but if your going to put a product out make sure its going to represent the brand of LIve and that its going to please its hardcore and casual fans.

You can't forget EA is in competition and if it doesn't live up to the competition it won't have the demand to keep producing. The fact is 2k even in its short demo is more pleasing in gameplay then Elite. You can tell by a short demo that 2k is going to be great. You can tell with Elite's in depth demo that the game is really not going to be that fun. I am not a 2klover at all in fact I have only bought live I have neva bought a 2k game that will change this year but who can really agure that the product 2k is about to put out will definetly outdue Elite which in my mind is a sighn that Live is really dead and I'm so sad to say that

[mp3]

I wasnt blown away with the 2k11 demo but to be honest i wasnt taken by it last year either but i loved 2k10 but with 2k you always know what type of game its gonna be.

They take the good try and lose the bad and advance on what works, it seems to me like EA just scraps the game each year and starts from scratch with "brand new" parts to the game that most probably wont be there the next year.

Ive bought nba live every year since 1995 and for me it went down hill after 2005 but i still bought there game until 2007 when i bought both Live and 2k.

2008 - both
2009 - both but returned live the next day
2010 - both , kept live for a couple of months then traded it in.

I actually thought EA were headed in the right direction with Live 10 so what happened with Elite ????

IMHO EA has took a step back with Elite.

Maybe its that they are headed in yet another direction and it will take time to build on the what they have got but iam guessing that they will scrap most things in Elite 11 and bring something new out.

My impressions of the demo are that i hate the 2 analog stick controls and the fact that you also shoot off the right stick really doesnt work for me.

Ive spent the last 4 hours playing Elite 11 and 2k11 and although the 2k demo is very basic i get a general idea that iam gonna love the game again while Elite... sorry guys but i dont even think il be buying your game at all this year.... for the 1st time in 15 years

[mp3]

And to also point out that EA may of "made" nba live each year but it was the people of this site and there patches that made the game worth while playing !

EA's biggest mistake was dropping the pc version !!

[Houndy]

My thing is, it isn't that EA did that bad. It's that 2k did better, way better.

[MayhemMonkey]

I get the criticism of elite 11 I really do , but I find it funny that we have all of theses 2k fans here bashing it . Here's the reason why #1 The 2k11 graphics are just as bad . The jersey's are floating on the bodies ( I really hate that ) . Derek Fisher is just as fat as Perkins in the demo . The faces are horrible , Bryant's neck , Allen looking like hes 80 , Rondo looking like he was on the cast of a Cheech & Chong movie and more . I believe Elite has taken acouple steps back when it comes to graphics but If I remember correctly last year there was a poll on this website , or the EA forums that asked would you give up graphics for gameplay and the majority said yes . So EA did that to move in a new direction with gameplay . Yes its not perfect its not even that good , but it has alot of potential . The control scheme is really good , but I also agree that there's things there that should be moved back like the passing and rebounding to face buttons . Before I get attacked here with someone saying the control scheme is horrible can you honestly sit there and say that the isomotion is better NO you cant because its garbage . If you look at the dribbling scheme with Elite its basically like how it is in real life ( exp . If you doing a crossover with your left hand to your right you move the left hand right and vice versa . If your going through the legs you go in a diagonal direction with the ball through the legs ect. ) Now I know there will be alot of people bashing Elite and thats fine but acting like the 2k product is perfect and has no flaws or glithes is crazy exp.

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C'MON MAN on the second one . Just search 2k10 glitches theres always glitches in games. Plus 2k11 will have there glitches to because they always do . Now my final thought is im buying both games and I will like different things on both and hate different things on both . Neither game is perfect and they both have there flaws ! Hope you like my take on this .

[benji]

MayhemMonkey tell em. Exactly, the only people hating on Elite are the 2K FANBOIS WHO NEED TO SHUT UP ABOUT THEIR INFERIOR GAME. 2K sucks and they're just thrashing about trying to justify why yet again they're going with the shitty game. So they come onto the NESC and spend all day long trying to spread FUD about Elite.

I hope the mods start banning all these trolls who come here, having played nothing but 2K for a decade and say negative things about Elite. Go back to your 2K forums and circle jerk yourself there.

Now, instead of these trolls, how about we hear some more about how Elite is going to kill it this year with the defining basketball game of our generation.

OH YEAH, PLUS, NBA JAM, WHAT? 2K IS A JOKE.

[MayhemMonkey]

I'm not picking one over the other I like both games . It just really bothers me when people just bash the other game saying one is so much better when they both have there flaws .

[benji]

Oh, so you're just one of those 2K concern trolls, get out of here then. Real men only pick Elite, they don't go flirting with that cheap harlot 2K. 2K is a piece of trash and EA has delivered yet again a perfect basketball simulation, it's like actually being on the court. 2K is like being at the arena, but outside it, a half mile away, in a bar watching the game from a table on the other side of it while drunk and delirious.

ELITE OR DIE.

[MayhemMonkey]

Im a 2k troll because I like things from both games and I wont pick one over the other hmmm that doesn't really make since . I think both games have there pros and cons . If that makes me a 2k fanboy to live fans or a live fanboy to 2k fans than so be it .

[Fozzrat]

Live 10 was an awesome game. Now they have ruined it. They shouldn't of even released anything this year and come back strong next year with the physics, bad move by EA.

[atlwarrior]

Kevin Durant is not even great enough to grace the cover of a game like this. It shouldve been...

The one and only LEROY SMITH!

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[Fozzrat]

Downloading demo now

[Fozzrat]

Im going to buy it no matter what. Probably the main reason is Fiba teams, and hopefully in next couple of years they can get euroleague licenses and NBL, Chinese Basketball League.

[Axel The Great]

I don't think EA would take the time to put the euroleague teams or other leagues. Main reason is because those players will be 50-70 overall, 80's at best. It's pointless to include those teams.

[Andrew]

What I miss a bit are the graphical aspects as well as the animations. You did not really mention them in your critique (correct me if I'm wrong) and I think they are a big reason why 2k11 is the better demo in the eyes of many of us. While I know you are a gameplay enthusiast (so am I), I think especially the animations and the transition and smoothness of these bring a lot to the gameplay table. While player models and faces can actually be ignored considering gameplay, the different animations shouldn't be.

The flow of the game in Elite suffers from robotic animations in my opinion and makes the game very tough to handle. It forces different actions and let's the game at time look unrealistically quick. 2k already did a better job two or three years ago if you ask me (2k8 was my first 2k title, and the animations and the movement are way better then in the Elite demo IMO).

See, that's the thing. I feel the controls are responsive, the game reacts quite well to the input in my opinion so in that respect I don't find it robotic or pre-determined. It doesn't always look pretty doing it though, I'd agree there.

EDIT: Played 2k again. Yes, it's an old engine but it's just so polished & looks & feels like you're playing an NBA game. Went back to Elite & although it is cool to pull off moves & have more control, the polish isn't there. PS3 demo still has framerate issues, which is just unacceptable Does 360 lag at times? If it's all about control, lag isn't good.

I wouldn't say it the 360 version does. The PS3 version always seems to have framerate issues though, at least that's been a consistent complaint since NBA Live 08.

My question was as a long time live fan, do you not feel like the foundation of what Live was about has been stripped away? I mean that saying it seems like with the new direction of schemes it took away from the Live feel in what separated it from other games.

I guess, kind of. But then, consider the general negative reactions Live was receiving in recent years, less so with NBA Live 10 (though there were still a fair few people calling it a horrible game), changing it up wasn't necessarily a bad idea. I think no matter what they did they were going to take heat for it; if it was the same, people would be saying "Ugh, same old shit as NBA Live" and since they changed it, the consensus seems to be "Ugh, why did they change it to this shit?" I can see merit in the new scheme but I would like to try more of a hybrid style control. I think NBA 2K's got it right in allowing you to either use the shot stick or a shoot button, though I prefer dribbling controls on the right stick as I've said many times before.

At the end of the day, I don't mind that they're trying something new but it's not perfect in its first iteration. Not everyone was crazy about Freestyle Control when it made its debut in NBA Live 2003 but it grew on people and as you put it, became the style and foundation of the game.

My 2nd question was cleary from a learning standpoint there is a big curve from right stick dribbling, to the getting use to no turbo, to getting use to passing with R2, don't you think its to much change at one time? It actually becomes a turn off and causes frustration as you see with many comments to the game instead of bringing excitement

It might be and it could be suggested that there has been an overreaction to some of the negative feedback in the past, to the point where they feel they've had to make huge changes to the control scheme. It was a good idea to include the NBA Live 10-style controls in that regard as well as the hybrid option that's apparently there, that might turn out to be the saving grace as far as controls are concerned.

My 3rd question is while we disagree on our feelings towards the game, even reading your article I didn't get the feeling that you are excited about Elite 11 the same way we have been excited about pryor live games including Live10. Even as excited as picking up 2k and we alike are avid live fans. Doesn't that seem to suggest that coming from live10 which was a great start a big problem, meaning one year ago we were excited and pleased with live10 more than anything we were looking for more depth in the modes (with some improvement with the gameplay) now where has the excitment gone it seems it has been lost becuase Elite 11 is so opposite direction of Live10 its liie a whole new game then a continuation of a already good game. What are your feelings there?

I'm actually looking forward to NBA Elite 11 more than I was, I feel like it's going to be much more playable than I thought it might be. NBA Live 10 was far from perfect, especially post-patch and while I'm going to let the finished game have the final say, I'm thinking I might enjoy NBA Elite 11 more especially if Dynasty Mode has been improved. There's a lot that's new, but NBA Live 10 wasn't near close enough to perfect for me to feel like certain elements have been replaced for nothing.

My Final Question: In one of my reviews I suggest that the Live brand was Dead and not just the name, that so much frustration would come out of this at a time when 2k is building. Even I had to admit that thought the demo for 2k was barely nothing, just that short gameplay along with the rest of our knowledge of what is in the game lets us know how great as you stated the game is going to be. With that said I believe that Elite putting out this product will be smashed by there competition who along with Jordan, gamplay, smoothness, depth of modes and challenges, intervies and so on seem to be excelling. Do you think as I think it was a very bad time to make so many changes that would bring forth all of this frustron that we are seeing with the Demo in a year where your competitors have put in things that the fams will obviously go toward?

Not really. Had they done nothing, the game would be being raked over the coals for that. I guarantee it. They needed to do something to remain competitive, it may be that this wasn't the something they needed to do but it makes sense that they'd try to innovate. I think the approach had merit, even if the fruits of their labour have tanked with the demo with most people.

THIS IS ALL DEDICATED TO ANDREW

I understand that your a live fan I am too, but my man give it up
please!! just accept Elite for what it is a sorry excuse for a game.
Your taking up for EA in every which way even when people were saying how
bad the elite 24 videos were you said i expected much worse just as your
saying now be honest its a bad game.

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I don't agree and I do not need to admit nor accept anything, except a difference of opinion. We obviously have different opinions after playing the demo. That's my honest opinion, you're free to disagree with your honest opinion. I know what I liked and disliked, you know what you liked and disliked. Neither of us need admit or accept the other as being right.

I think those of you asking or saying you don't understand the harsh critism of the game should look at some of your own comments. I think the problem is your trying to find away to defend in the game but in your defense your just admitting the problems with the game. NO I actually don't think we should comment EA for taking such a drastic new direction....we should only commend them if that drastic change works and you guys know it doesn't work out.

That works both ways. I could just as easily say that the people who are ripping the game are determined to find fault and have already formulated their opinion from the videos. To be honest, I feel that is probably the case with some people, perhaps not anyone in this thread but I'd suggest not everyone who played the demo went in there with an open mind.

I understand the criticism. I just don't agree with all of it and think some of it is being a bit harsh or overlooking the good that's in the game right now.

More people are coming out frustrated then pleased and excited, and for the developers that is a problem. Isn't just a learning curve but its dealing with totally new shooting and dribbling mechanics that sometimes are sluggish, no turbo, R2 has been put for passing know we are all use to pressing it for turbo so frustration comes in when not meaning to pass but just pressed it for turbo and then it makes the crazy pass. Also even most have question the graphics and animations there can be no excuse EA is putting a game out so they have to be accountable for that product so in a year where your bringing so much change wouldn't you want at least your game to look good while your doing the learning curve.

I definitely agree that the decision to forfeit some polish on the animations is going to cost EA this year. As I said, I can forgive some of it because of the overhaul and I like the feel and responsiveness, but it doesn't always look good, no question there.

I think you guys forget that Elite 11 is a produce of Live, LIve isn't new its been here for a while and was the king of basketball gaming for a while, there are many live fans don't try to dull down the area of expectation and anticipation from fans who expect the best product. Your comments suggest oh we can see where there going theres not to much they can do within a year but we expect maybe next year a great game. NO that is not the way it goes if thats the case then don't put a game out this year say we are making so many changes that the game won't be ready till 2012, but if your going to put a product out make sure its going to represent the brand of LIve and that its going to please its hardcore and casual fans.

Trust me, I'm not forgetting anything. Yes, I did touch upon the potential in my impressions but like I said, from my time with the demo so far I think I'm going to enjoy the game this year too.

You can't forget EA is in competition and if it doesn't live up to the competition it won't have the demand to keep producing. The fact is 2k even in its short demo is more pleasing in gameplay then Elite. You can tell by a short demo that 2k is going to be great. You can tell with Elite's in depth demo that the game is really not going to be that fun. I am not a 2klover at all in fact I have only bought live I have neva bought a 2k game that will change this year but who can really agure that the product 2k is about to put out will definetly outdue Elite which in my mind is a sighn that Live is really dead and I'm so sad to say that

Again, I'm not forgetting that. But as I said in response to your previous questions, when you are in competition you have to try and keep bringing new stuff to the table, especially when the consensus in previous years tends to have been that what you're bringing to the table isn't up to what the competition is producing.

I actually commend the developers for being able to make such a drastic change in one year and have it at least playable. Most people should have known going in that it wasn't going to look pretty this year. Especially after the videos and quick clips showing off the collision animations.

The one thing I don't understand is why people aren't really acknowledging the better response to controller input. It has been bad for both games since 2008. This to me is huge. Why people want a game to play for them is beyond me, and that is how I have always felt when playing previous Live games. Live 08-10 was horrible at letting you be creative because every command happened half a second to two seconds later than when you pressed a button because you were stuck in an animation, and even if you weren't, it still had a bad response. Still have one of th games? Try navigating the menus, it's apparent throughout the entirety of each game. The 2K series has been better and worse at input response depending on what you were doing. Most of their control when moving passing or shooting is responsive, and only the long and slow animations(like passing out of a double team, or the post moves) caused a loss of control.

The only thing that is really wrong with the Elite 11 demo is the way it ends up looking. They have these generic, smooth, responsive animations in some places that look fine. Most of them are on the ground, and then they have these snappy, herky jerky technological animations that are mostly blocking, rebounding, and in air collision animations. The worst thing about the ground animations is how they transition from one to another while moving or changing direction. It causes sliding and overall awkwardness like playing defense with your back to the defender, and play execution that looks like they are practicing the frames of the play one step at a time, rather than executing it smoothly. Transitioning from gathers to layups doesn't look very good unless you are going straight to the basket since the layups will happen by themselves.

Having my player change direction in mid air when adjusting a layup is just bad looking. Try this in shootaround with the demo. At the top of the key, drive to the basket and at the freethrow line hold the gather button while rotating the the right stick in a half circle from left to down to right, and continue that into a right handed layup by rotating it further to the top. Once he gets off the ground, quickly press the right stick to the left and rotate it up to adjust to a left handed layup. The player goes from a layup to the right, in-air towards the left or even stopping in mid-air, and after releasing he falls in another direction. All of this could look good if they just had used the real time physics to govern a players in air momentum, rather then let the animation decide what direction they go or how high they jump.

Not to mention, but there are a few AI issues. I hope they were ironed out in the final build. Maybe a higher difficulty setting will be needed since we all know that the lower difficulty settings just cause the cpu to act like they don't know what is actually happening on the court.

I would have to agree on all counts.

I don't think EA would take the time to put the euroleague teams or other leagues. Main reason is because those players will be 50-70 overall, 80's at best. It's pointless to include those teams.

It's more a money thing. We've asked about that at previous community events and basically, the Euroleague license is really expensive.

[Fozzrat]

I cant download the demo? Error code 800... Same thing happened once the other day when trying to get new update 3.50 but then worked. My signal is 100% atm it downloads 100% then it gets to installing and gets to 14% then error code comes up Help! lol

[atlwarrior]

Well like ive said before Andrew, EA knows that visuals are just as important as controls and cannot possibly think this game looks like basketball. If they do then thats beyond me but im going to assume they dont. Im not cutting them any slack and i dont feel bad for them. If they knew the animations would take a fall then why not take another year to fix them and release the game in 2012. Thats common sense. Instead they chose to hype everybody up for disappointment. They shouldve just released NBA JAM as its own game and kept updating Nba live 10 with rosters and patches to fix Dynasty and waited to release Elite in 2012. Alot more people wouldve just settled with that.

[BigDre1992]

this is probably the worst basketball game ive ever played in my life... the only descent thing is that it says espn... but other than that this is pathetic.. i felt like i was playing nba the life

[Andrew]

Well like ive said before Andrew, EA knows that visuals are just as important as controls and cannot possibly think this game looks like basketball.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it looks nothing like basketball but I don't disagree that they've shot themselves in the foot there.

[JaoSming]

this is probably the worst basketball game ive ever played in my life... the only descent thing is that it says espn... but other than that this is pathetic.. i felt like i was playing nba the life

try live 07 on the 360

[Andrew]

For all it's issues, I wouldn't give the title to NBA Live 07 on 360. I'd go with NBA Live 08 PC or NBA Live 09 PS2.